RememberSchiff

The folks running the original site did an OUTSTANDING job. However national has since taken it over. Not likely that National, aka those to be keelhauled, will return the helm to those Able. Well there is the Way Back Machine web.archive.org http://web.archive.org/web/20110318033244/http://seascout.org/

Definitely agree on stature of Quartermaster and advancement quality, but can we keelhaul those managing the seascout.org , newseascout.org, and BeAScout websites. To the tune of Drunken Sailor What do you do to become a Sea Scout What do you do to become a Sea Scout Sail on down to our new website Sail on down to our new website There you moor to join Sailed true to newseascout.org To find a rope to join Sailed true to newseascout.org To find a rope to join Early in the morning A wind blew me off-course To the whirlpool BeAScout A wind blew me off-course To the whirlpool BeAScout No Sea Scouts could join. An old salt barked Go find a ship An old salt barked Go find a ship On the old chart seacout.org Sailed down to seascout.org To find my ship Sailed down to seascout.org To find my ship Clicked on Local Sea Scout Units Ended right back at BeAScout Ended right back at BeAScout BeAScout has no line to Sea Scout And I wish you luck BeAScout has no line to Sea Scout And I wish you luck Where had the Ship Locator gone Where had the Ship Locator gone Lost in the fog of a landlubber's mind Lost in the fog of a landlubber's mind In time for Sea Scout Anniversary. You need a better crew handling the sea scout websites. For now, just have a homepage membership link to a simple static webpage detailing where the units are and point of contacts. Simple, can be done in an hour. Why is it with all these websites, you still need to find a scout to join a unit? Just like back in the day, except scouts were easier to find. There were more of them and they wore uniforms with neckers! My $0.01 for poor lyrics and scoutmanship(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

E-3 maybe, E-2 at least. I think much depends on the specialty needs of the service, the length of the service contract, and the enlistee. Hard to find this policy in writing on official military websites. I have wondered why it is not printed on the Eagle congratulatory letter that he may receive from a branch of the service or the Joint Chiefs. Small print on bottom of letter stating "Approved to enlist at E-3. See your recruiter for details." My $0.02

Seems like bubba camping to me but I have not seen the program nor witnessed scout response. I would expect scouts to pick ATV over hiking . No nearby camps are doing this, but I found the following: Del-Mar-Va Council, Henson Scout Reservation (Delaware) , nice muddy photo, no additional cost http://www.doubleknot.com/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=17806&orgkey=1516 Erie Shores Council, Camp Frontier (Ohio), +$60 http://www.psrweb.org/ATV.html Equipment list to bring: long pants, long sleeve shirts, boots that cover your ankles, some mention gloves (riding, mechanics, etc.)??? My $0.02

http://www.atvrideronline.com/newsfront/1203_atvp_boy_scouts_of_america_ads_atv_program/index.html "...BSA updated their camp standards to allow for ATV use at approved camps only. It adopted the ASI RiderCourse curriculum as the official training course for leader/instructors and Scouts. And it applied state-by-state requirements for age of operator and other applicable laws. Over 200 Boy Scouts participated in the pilot program. American Honda Motor Co., Inc. provided the ATVs -- including 150 vehicles for the 2012 camping season -- through its Rider Training Loan Program. Individual councils pay for helmets and safety gear. BSA Councils with ATV programs up and running are in 11 states: Delaware, Florida, Illinois, Ohio, Michigan, Mississippi, New Jersey, North Carolina, Texas, Virginia and Washington. Councils in another 5 states -- Arkansas, California, Oregon, Maryland, and West Virginia -- are in the process of creating a program. At the approved summer camps, ASI-trained adult volunteers lead the ATV program. Scouts who choose to participate pay an extra $30 in their camp fee to include the week-long ATV activity. They attend the rider course for a few hours each day, completing the curriculum and ending the week with a trail ride or combination riding/camping experience. The councils that were most successful had trails, but they also took them out on a campout, said Wellen. They had them put their tents and gear on their ATVs, and they got to ride to a part of the property that nobody else got to camp in...."

When you're a youth, it's called the buddy system. When you get older, it's called 2-deep leadership. Remember safety for everyone first. Take the "youth protection training" as this is part of getting older - share our joy Welcome to our side, you'll need a coffee mug. My $0.02

Some other thoughts 1. World Jambo at Summit - we will see many coed scout units. Have girls earned Eagle Scout or the equivalent in any of those foreign scout units? I would like to know. Our own girls (Venture Scouts), some thoroughly capable but denied Eagles, will also be in attendance. Time for a change. 2. My older son is busy with Catholic Confirmation classes, they are of course coed, and except for lack of uniforms and other formalisms, the class seems to be another scout troop. They have their own group activities, service projects, assignments, so many that my son has had little time for scout activities this year. Much different than back in the day when we just studied the Baltimore Catechism . The SM said my son needs to "get crackin on Eagle... the clock is ticking... the IH and MOM overruled with a much different opinion. My point, the CO may force the issue, i.e., we (CO) just have resources and time for ONE youth program. If Scouting will not be flexible then we (CO) will create our own youth group. For those who ask but what does your son want? - door #3 Driver Ed . 3. Increasing roles available to women in US military and their eagerness to serve in those roles. If there in 5 years why not here in (Boy) Scouts now? My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Phila had a chance to settle and gain $500K in building sale, instead they opted not to and pay Cradle of Liberty Council legal fees??? http://www.wpxi.com/news/ap/texas/philly-owes-877k-for-boy-scouts-eviction-case/nLY7T/ "In 2003, it (Cradle of Liberty Council) enacted its own nondiscrimination policy but was forced to repeal it when the Boy Scouts of America ordered it to conform to national rules. The chapter later enacted a statement that says it doesn't tolerate illegal discrimination." Cradle of Liberty, City of Brotherly Love...how ironic.

Yeah, that SPL or any of those scouts could grow up to become President some day ... The SPL did fine, maybe someone will remind the SM that America is still a land of opportunity. My $0.02

Trailer looks pretty funny and from clothing looks like it was "back in the day". Wow what a cast - Bruce Willis (camp director?) , Bill Murray, Ed Norton ... Thanks for heads up. Back in the day, well I won't say there were or there were not instances of Boy Scouts leaving camp to ah, be Friendly with the locals...

A hike on a winding trail might have helped this troop prepare as I have found a group that does not hike well will do worse on a river trip. Hmm, no older scout or adult leader sweep, not staying within sight and sound of the group (rabbits and the turtles), unknown whether each scout had a map and compass and WHISTLE, getting lost...STOP calm, staying together for night, building a fire, ... A good learning experience in mild weather for these scouts who were also fortunate to avoid injury and likely had no daily medication issues. I wonder what the main group of scouts learned from this trip? As for the adult leader(s), their "learning experience" continued with the sheriff and parents. Discussing a trip incident like this one IMO is a better adult learning experience than watching a cartoon character (Tonka Joe?) build a sandwich. My $0.01 for rambling

Sheriff's report http://www.nbc15.com/janesville/headlines/Four_Boy_Scouts_Rescued_Along_Sugar_River_in_Rock_County_131413423.html "From the Rock County Sheriff's Department: On Saturday, 10/08/11 at 2213 hours, deputies from the Rock County Sheriffs Office received a call for mutual aid from the Winnebago County Illinois Sheriffs Police in locating four missing boy scouts last seen on the Sugar River in Rock County around 1330 hours. Fire and rescue personnel from Albany, Brodhead, Orfordville and Town of Beloit also responded to search the area for the boys. The investigation shows the boys, ages 12-13 from the Mendota, Illinois area, were canoeing with their boy scout troop, which included approximately 14 other scouts and a scout leader. The troop launched canoes at the DNR grounds located at 17305 W. Beloit-Newark Road in Avon Township around 1100 hours. They stopped on the riverbank to eat lunch just before 1300 hours and portaged their canoes shortly afterward, somewhere west of Sugar River Park, located at 11317 N. Nelson Road. After portaging, the troop continued downstream to Sugar River Park where they noticed the last two canoes (with the four boys) were missing. The troop waited approximately hour and the boys still hadnt caught up to them. The scout leader and another canoe left the rest of the troop at Sugar River Park as they went back upstream to look for the boys. After searching the area of the river, which is very winding, complex and remote, the scout leader returned to the rest of the troop thinking it was possible the missing boys could have gotten out ahead of them after portaging. They continued downstream to their destination at the Winnebago County Forest Preserve in Illinois, where they planned to camp overnight, and when they arrived they realized the boys were still missing. The Winnebago County Sheriffs Police was contacted at 1900 hours and an extensive search began upstream. Rescue personnel from all Rock County agencies used johnboats and ATVs searching the area downstream, which is very thick and dense with foliage. At approximately 0108 hours on 10/09/11, a helicopter from Illinois Department of Transportation located a campfire in the woods along the river, approximately two miles north of the state line in Rock County. The chopper landed in a nearby field and the pilot walked out to escort the boys to safety. The boys were not injured and were flown to the Shirland Illinois Fire Department where they were turned over to family members. The missing boys likely took the wrong bend in the river after portaging and easily became lost trying to navigate their way around unfamiliar waters. Once darkness set in, they were unable to navigate any further so they got out of the water, started a campfire and waited for help to arrive. The scout leader had taken the boys cell phones earlier in the trip, as he didnt want any of them to lose their phones in the river, so they were unable to call for assistance. The Rock County Sheriffs Office strongly urges people to use caution anytime when setting out on unfamiliar waters. In this instance, if the boys had at least one cell phone with them, not only could they have called for help immediately after losing their way, but also a trace could have been done on it to pinpoint their exact location as soon as the emergency call was received." ROBERT D. SPODEN SHERIFF

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/131424653.html Group of scouts get lost on trip, they hunker down and await rescue...search helicopter lands and rescues them, all is well except (last paragraph) "Rock County sheriff's officials said the scout leader had taken the boys' cellphones so they wouldn't get lost in the river. If the boys had had them, officials said, they would have been able to call for help or emergency officials would have been able to trace the phones' signals." Apologies to Pink Floyd,

http://www.ksee24.com/news/local/Man-Arrested-for-Embezzling-from-Boy-Scouts-142123683.html Hard to believe 1. This went unnoticed by Troop Committee for two years, should have been caught within three months with financial report at Committee meetings. Does your Treasurer show the real bank statement or just a homemade Excel spreadsheet that could be erroneous? 2. Troop had that much dough. Wonder how much money was lost from "Scout Accounts"? I see a "Money Protection" program coming...money should never be left alone with one person, three deep,.. My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

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With a statue of limitations and time exceeded, the alleged abuser wins whether he/she is innocent or guilty while the alleged victim (plaintiff) never had a day in court. Admittedly I am more concerned with the scout than the scouter or corporate, as the legal scales seemed tipped in favor of the last two. I think showing more concern for the scout, like Scouts-Canada is attempting, is the way out of this "perversion files"/lawsuit/PR mess. My $0.01,

Twocubdad, I wasn't saying that 2-deep coverage was not a good idea just that the fallout that we (singularly) are suddenly not to be trusted because of the actions of a few is not the desired Scout image. Maybe we scouters will never earn that trust back. A scout is "trustworthy", well not anymore, maybe two or three scouts together are trustworthy. Hurts scouts, scouters, and scouting. Is it "better" to hold on to the "files" (as pointed out they cannot be destroyed with legal action pending), watch as plaintiff attorneys for each case request those "files" and the resulting negative press over and over for the next 20, 30 or more years or have a controlled third party release of the files now, takes the lumps, and move forward rebuilding? The former is the status quo which continually paints the BSA in a negative image and hurts membership growth. Ask which will cost the "corporation" less in money, well we don't how much the status quo is costing us. Both approaches I suspect will be costly. Maybe the results of Scouts-Canada , will give us more info. JMHawkins They exist because after a long enough time, it's difficult or even impossible to obtain reliable evidence.." Victims of abuse can take a long time to come forward, the reasons can be shame, desire not to let their parents know i.e. wait for Mom and Dad to pass before going to court, desire to forget, or fear ("say anything and I will kill your family") and then there is the possibility of DNA evidence which may have been unknown at the time of the crime. Whether the trial occurs a year, ten, or forty years later, the accused still has to be proven guilty beyond a doubt. This applies to murder cases, add "child abuse' as well. Here's that police-Explorer article http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2012/02/29/ap_enterprise_cop_cadet_sex_case_has_precedents/ Another $0.02,

1. We need to help scouts (past and present) who were harmed through Scouting. The public perception is that things have "improved" to the point that the BSA now quickly drops the abuser's membership and there are programs in place which, well apparently were not enough. - Scouts Canada removed settlement gag orders so those scouts can freely talk as part of their healing process. - BSA or their insurer covers 100% of medical expense (therapy, burial expenses, etc.) of any scout abused by a registered member of BSA. 2. We need to remove this albatross about our neck - the "perversion files". We need to do a one shot apology, controlled release and take our lumps. Scouts Canada having KPMG doing an independent review with public release sounds better than an federal special prosecutor that I suggested earlier. As it stands now those files will be sought for every future case with the BSA always appearing as they/we have something to hide. Contract a 3rd party to review and direct information to the police accordingly. Maybe have the BSA youth protection committee/task force should also review the "files" in parallel, note this was not done when a YP policy was being formulated. 3. We need to earn back the public trust. When I camped back in the day, at times we had just 1 adult. No problems, no worry. I have been the lone (token?) adult at other youth activities and no problem. I am known one of the good guys, well maybe one of the grumpier old good guy, anyway there is trust. - We relatively recently required that any suspected abuse be reported directly to Child Services/local police. Good. - Our scouts need more real training in protecting themselves, not just a short couple of pages in the handbook. As I young Cub Scout (my CM was a cop), I remember practicing what to do if a stranger grabbed me. "YOU"RE NOT MY DAD! HELP!ME!" It wasn't giggle time. Wouldn't it be a change to read, "a suspected child stalker picked the wrong victim, a boy scout, who used his youth protection training to alert... I am so GD angry to read today of all the police Explorer scouts who have been abused by cops. If a police Explorer scout cannot self-rescue from abuse, then our YP needs serious re-work. - BSA should lobby for no statue of limitations for child abuse. Start with the states where we have high adventure camps! My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

That much they both have right, but it wasn't always the case. Remember for years, BSA YP stated call the council SE first, it was even a test question. IMO, there is more to be done. Scouts-Canada realizes this and is working in that direction. I am eager to read KPMG's "perversion files" report due later this year and hear what action is taken and how much work was involved in reviewing 350 records (BSA is estimated at slightly over 5000 records). BSA? Another $0.02(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Good point. He should have worded it more accurately. Their youth-protection policy is 1. Contact Child Protection Authority 2. Contact Scouts Canada ... scouts.cs/ca/youth-protection

Engineer 61, Our fellow scouters to the north face the same problem but their solution focuses on the good of their scouts past and present as opposed to the good of corporate. Please read Scouts Canada Chief Commissioner and Chair of the Board of Governors, Steve Kent 2+ page letter to all. http://www.scouts.ca/sites/default/files/Youth-Protection-Update-Feb13.pdf I will include the last part here "Scouts Canada, and I personally, have committed to this course of honesty and open transparency. We know it will ensure the strength and vitality of our organization for the future. Our focus is dedicated to nurturing the skills and abilities of young people, and there is nothing more important to Scouts Canada than the wellbeing of the children and youth with whom we work so closely and whose lives we aspire to influence for the better. It is a tremendous privilege, and an enormous responsibility, and each of our volunteer leaders takes it very seriously and cares about it very deeply on a personal level." Thank you once again for your support. Please do not hesitate to contact me directly if you have questions or concerns. " He includes his phone number and e-mail address!!! Maybe Scouts Canada has no lawyers or they are still Scout. They may have found a better scout-like solution that the Catholic Church and BSA did not. Consider the Scout first! My $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Sounds good, but I think it is more complex. I think there's an ego factor sometimes expressed "these are different times", "we have a different leadership team (making the same decision)" that needs to be overcome. I wonder if/how C.S. Lewis would have expanded this thought post JFK, his cabinet of "The Best and the Brightest", and the Vietnam War. And that's just one example of well-educated, well-traveled, experienced people repeating the mistakes of history. Oddly he and JFK died on the same day. My $0.01

Santa Barbara County Superior Court Judge Donna Geck vacated her order this week, pending a March 21 mediation session between lawyers for BSA and plaintiff . She set a new date of May 9 for the BSA to produce the "perversion files", which are not to be disclosed to the public. Adult troop leader Al Stein pleaded no contest to felony child endangerment in 2009 and was sentenced to a two year prison term. He was paroled early. Some of us are keeping an eye on Scouts Canada approach, where they have released their "perversion files" for independent review (KPMG will make public their report later this year) and allowed victims (scouts) to talk post settlement as part of their healing process. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Mine is three words, but I can see it expressed in 4 or 5. DSP Some might focus on a particular approach for the above like "Get out of the way and let boys lead.", "All your scouts earn First Class", ...but I hope we are all pretty much on the same page or is it pages now.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

My older (~16yo+) scouts and their parents listened to the council Jambo pitch $2k plus another uniform plus... and figured their money could be better spent a local adventure trek $500-$600 or $0 get a summer job instead 40hr drivers ed $850 Driver license $30 SAT test, subject tests $50-200 6 college applications $300-450 ------------ $1230(no trek) - $1730(min) - $2130(max) per scout Seems once the total activity cost is above $800 (two weeks local scout camp?), family economic reality takes over. Maybe it would be an easier sell with 13-14 year olds, but that group wanted merit badge summer camp Their $0.02,(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)