RememberSchiff

That workaround faded after one summer here. It became so popular that the volume of paperwork for doctor offices soon led to service fees (in our case first $5 then $10, not bad). But word got around and their legal advisers ixnayed the altering of the physical exam date to a date when no appointment was made and hence no exam conducted. Fraud? Glad to hear this workaround works elsewhere, but I think one or more groups need to flex here, otherwise all the kids will be allowed to do in summer is "safely" play Xbox . Another $0.01

That is the quandary. The BSA and ACA (American Camp Association) requires a physical exam (health evaluation) no more than a year before camp while many health insurers will only pay for a physical exam no more frequently than one year (two years for me ). I have heard rumors that the ACA might tighten requirements to 6 months particularly for those with asthma and other existing conditions. There is your pediatrician's schedule. There is the camp's schedule, i.e., they need the forms 2 or 4 weeks in advance to review medical histories and develop any health management plans. And around here, if your son does fall school sports, the physical exam must be after June for the coming fall. Good luck trying to schedule a June physical even 3 or 6 months prior. Some scout parents opt for a drop-in clinic at $75 or more. Recently, a couple of parents have asked if money from their Scout's account (Scoutbucks) can pay for a physical exam. No answer yet, but I cannot see an objection. Other parents throw up their hands and say no can do, their scout does not go to camp. This maybe a contributing factor to flat summer camp attendance and fewer returning campers. My $0.01(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Followup: Scouts Canada "files" independent audit by KPMG CBC News Posted: Jun 25, 2012 11:35 AM ET http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2012/06/25/scouts-canada-reports.html Steve Kent, chief commissioner and chair of the board of governors for Scouts Canada, says the review by audit firm KPMG "found no systemic intent to cover up or hide incidents of abuse," though it did uncover cases where the youth organization did not handle incidents "with the rigour we would expect." "When the organization's child and youth protection policies and practices were recently challenged, Scouts Canada took an honest, open and transparent approach that confronted both the good and the bad of its history," the organization said in a release Friday. "The KPMG review of suspension and termination files is a thorough, arm's-length review of all records held by Scouts Canada related to the suspension and/or termination of volunteer leaders for sexual misconduct with youth covering 64 years, from 1947 to 2011." From Globe and Mail http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/scouts-canada-says-it-must-fix-problems-in-handling-abuse-cases/article4367804/ "Information on 65 cases, about one-fifth of them after 1992, was not given to police when allegations surfaced. And for another 64 cases, roughly split between pre- and post-1992, there were not sufficient records to be sure the cases were reported. All 129 of these cases have now been handed over to police, Mr. Kent said. He would offer no details of the individual circumstances, citing the active investigations, but suggested the cases spanned the country." The review looked at 486 records covering over a period of 64 years. It lasted seven months and a 51-page report released Monday was delivered to Scouts Canada last Thursday. The review identified findings in five specific areas: records management, governance, contact with authorities, suspensions and terminations and other observations. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Excellent... '...we have of late, we Americans, to our detriment, come to love accolades more than genuine achievement. We have come to see them as the point and were happy to compromise standards, or ignore reality, if we suspect thats the quickest way, or only way, to have something to put on the mantelpiece, something to pose with, crow about, something with which to leverage ourselves into a better spot on the social totem pole. No longer is it how you play the game, no longer is it even whether you win or lose, or learn or grow, or enjoy yourself doing it Now its So what does this get me? ' and true. Scouting should be the exception to this trend. Maybe the next time I hear an adult say to a scout "and Eagle looks good on your college application...", I will offer him/her a cup of STHU. My $0.02,

maybe Astronaut Michael E. Fossum (still like Mike Rowe) "Fossum made two flights aboard the Space Shuttle Discovery to the International Space Station. On a third trip to the space station, he joined two Russian cosmonauts. He is currently a scoutmaster in Houston and remembered his time spent as a Boy Scout at Camp Perry, learning first aid skills. Scout stuff is real stuff, Fossum told the boys. About a month ago, Fossum said he witnessed a car accident where he was able to use skills he learned as a Boy Scout to help treat the victims for shock after he dialed 9-1-1." http://www.valleymorningstar.com/articles/inspires-100417-rio-astronaut.html

I don't recall stating an interpretation; Blue Water Scuba's policy was (still is?) what I quoted, be it good or bad, dumb or smart that's part of this thread's discussion. I did ask two questions about adult supervision and one about safety changes since.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

'One person pleased to see this first major crack in wall of the national organization is Bill Van Faasen, chairman of Blue Cross Blue Shield of Massachusetts. Also an Eagle Scout, he was the incoming president of the Boston Minuteman Council in 2001 when it became the first major council to include sexual orientation in its non-discrimination policy. Van Faasen said Turleys statement makes a change of policies by the Boy Scouts even more inevitable because corporate leaders on the national board cant have it both ways, running companies with inclusive policies while supporting others that dont.' http://bostonglobe.com/opinion/editorials/2012/06/17/boy-scouts-board-member-warning-reveals-crack-anti-gay-policy/rRnyvR6HTDvKSMLnevsDQP/story.html

Yes, but learn from our mistakes so we do not repeat them.

Blue Water Scuba - Boy Scout Discover Scuba Program http://www.bluewaterscubaoflogan.net/index.php?PID=8f7635bcd6&PGID=7b7f5943b2 Consider item 10. "10. Each diver will be paired up with a buddy and start their dive. We start in the shallows and when feeling comfortable, move to deeper water. Scouts have enough air to dive for 30 to 45 minutes. The buddy teams will explore everywhere while having fun while getting use to the scuba gear and skills. At all times a scuba instructor is only seconds away from any scout should assistance be needed. This is why our dive area is clearly marked and the scouts will stay in that area." Questions I have of the Salt Lake Tribune article If true, why did the instructor not signal all divers (just 4?) to surface (14ft up)? Why were scouts not under direct adult supervision? A year later, what safety changes if any? (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Update to scuba diving drowning at Bear Lake - parents filed lawsuit alleging "that the defendants failed to ensure the boy was properly equipped, dressed and weighted. It states that they provided defective equipment and did not manage, monitor or supervise the boys air supply. When the emergency situation arose, the parties failed to aid and properly rescue Tuvell (12yr old son) , the lawsuit alleges. "Defendant Corbett Douglas (dive instructor) and other defendants failed to prepare and implement an adequate dive plan," the lawsuit states. The parents claim all the defendants were negligent, strictly liable and failed to warn of the dangers posed by being part of the diving program." from Salt Lake Tribune http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54315249-78/diving-lawsuit-lake-defendants.html.csp

I think Les Stroud is Canadian, not that there's anything wrong with that. Louie Zamperini would be a great roll model but he must be in his 90's. http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-243-297--13773-0,00.html How about Richard Tinnell, another busy talented young man, "...one of the original founders of JPFreek Adventure Magazine. He is also an experienced outdoorsman, survivalist, avid Jeep enthusiast, and Eagle Scout. His commitment to JPFreeks mission as an eco-friendly, environmentally conscious publication has been a guiding light in his continued design work for JPFreek Adventure Magazine. Richard holds a Bachelors degree in Graphic Design from Southwest Texas State University, and is currently working on a Masters degree in Geographic Information Systems." http://online.jpfreek.com/about/ http://www.linkedin.com/pub/richard-tinnell/6/8a/815(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

"The Oregon Supreme Court on Thursday, June 14, ordered the unprecedented public release of more than 1,200 confidential files that detail sexual abuse of Boy Scouts by their troop leaders and others within scouting over a 20-year span beginning in 1965. The documents, also known as the "Ineligible Volunteer" or "perversion" files, are a subset of records that have been kept under lock and key by the Boys Scouts of America since the 1920s. The 20,000 pages ordered unsealed Thursday had been introduced as evidence in a landmark Oregon lawsuit in 2010. A jury awarded a record $18.5 million to a man who was molested by an assistant scoutmaster in the early 1980s, ruling that the Scouts failed to protect him..." "The court ordered the files be made public after the names of victims and others who reported sexual abuse are redacted. It was not immediately known how long that process would take." http://www.bostonherald.com/news/national/west/view/20120615court_approves_release_of_boy_scout_perversion_files/srvc=home&position=recent http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/06/boy_scout_sex_abuse_files_--_w.html http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-boy-scouts-perversion-files-20120614,0,5541666.story

Good to hear, Ralston's experience is a great example. There are unfortunately an abundance of examples: Eagle scout does a spur of the moment solo hike in NH White Mts winter/spring thaw, two 14yr scouts with SM get lost hiking from scout camp,... Using examples of those their own age, might alter the following misconceptions: Can't happen (lost, injury) to me. Can't happen to us. Bring along my iPhone and iGoodTaGo Daypack definitely. I pack a little more - be prepared to hunker down for night due to injury, weather, getting lost (who me?). What time of day do most people realize they are lost? Usually later (losing daylight) when they are tired. Also, we as scouts should go into the woods, prepared to help others. Seems obvious but it should be part of trip planning, i.e., SPL notifies local ranger, police, fire of unit trip plan, cell phones, and rescue gear and abilities. "We have maps, compass, GPS. With our training & first aid kit we can.... We have tarp, extra water. Keep us in mind to aid others out there this weekend." When we past other hikers, I ask my scouts do you think that group was prepared for a hike or just a walk in the woods? We might be the only hiking group in miles with a first aid kit! Do you think they might need our help later? As the day goes on, scouts quickly size up other groups and ask 'need water', 'where ya headed',...good feeling helping a young family who unknowingly took the wrong trail and some college jocks bruised from downhill boulder bounding. That should be the last chapter in the MB pamphlet - examples of scouts who have helped others. We want more cases of scouts rescuing others than being rescued themselves. I want the bar set high for this merit badge, starting with reading the pamphlet . My $0.02,

A Boy Scouts of America (Executive?) board member, James Turley, global chairman and CEO of consulting and tax firm Ernst & Young, stated "I support the meaningful work of the Boy Scouts in preparing young people for adventure, leadership, learning and service, however the membership policy is not one I would personally endorse, he said in a statement first reported by CNBC. I intend to continue to work from within the BSA Board to actively encourage dialogue and sustainable progress. http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/13/12201507-boy-scouts-board-member-opposes-anti-gay-policy?lite Apparently Mr. Turley and Mr. Stephenson, AT&T CEO and Chairman and a BSA board member, signed that online petition. Uh, Oh I did not see the new "Uh, Oh" topic thread before I posted.(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

You may be right. (a younger) George Takei - Boy Scouts of America commercial. WARNING: RED Berets ahead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmnLYVNO5EE(This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

Jamie Foxx, former boy scout, hip, kids know him, very talented, so talented that I doubt he would have the time. He would likely shake-up all the white conservatives who can't figure out how to attract Black, Hispanic, and Asian youth to Scouting. (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

bnelon44, I agree the Advancement Chairman/Committee schedule BOR's but there is no "invite" involved, at least not in my experience. The scout signs up for a scheduled BOR or waits for the next BOR. The AC does not chase after scouts who forgot either. As you point out, the scout learns to take responsibility. Another $0.01,

Inconsistent from one section to the next. Is advancement the responsibility of the scout(s) or everyone else? Does the SM have an advancement vision or does the SM help the scout form an advancement vision? Does the scout request/sign-up for a SM conference and BOR or is that an adult responsibility? Advancement is a journey or it is a destination (ranks) that needs to be "maximized" and tallied? Is advancement at the scout's pace, the group's pace, or a set pace, i.e., "practices that will bring each new Boy Scout to First Class rank within a year of joining, and then to Star rank the following year" (p13, item 7)? What crap, I thought we convinced National that FCFY was wrong! So what happens, National comes back with FCFYSSY. Active participation (p21). I do not know of any unit that will advance a scout if he is seriously behind (more than a month) in dues (his responsibility) or did not participate in the unit fundraiser, but this seems a no-no. Low attendance seems okay if a reason is provided, but it does not address attendance and a POR. This needs more thought and clarity. Correct and streamline Unit Advancement Responsibilities. "Build unit programming around advancement"???? Scouts plan the COH. Drop 7. "invite scouts to BOR"??? Drop 12. Some of these are for scouts to do. As for scouts with disabilities, units can discreetly handle requirement accommodations themselves thank you. No need to repeatedly send medical and private personal information to Council for each rank advancement. IMO, KISMIF. Trust the unit leaders to do the right thing, but give the scout (and his parents) a documented simple appeal process to review and fix any misunderstandings or problems be it the scout, the scoutmaster, the advancement chairman, troop program. Oh, and go back to working on ranks in sequence. My $0.01,

Wilderness Survival MB is still broken, WFA content is still not in First Aid MB. Fix both and make both prereqs for a SAR MB, then show me the remaining requirements which should include reading search reports of past lost scouts - what they did right/wrong, expense of search, injuries to all involved,... SAR MB is the right idea just do it right. Imagine Wilderness Survival back in BP's day, I bet scouts would be challenged to survive a solo overnighter (weekend) in each season, find game trails and build snares, or at least use the survival kit they assembled. IMO, more thought and challenge went into Chess MB than the current Wilderness or First Aid MB. My $0.01 for being a grouch

Boy Scouts review controversial anti-gay policy "...Boy Scouts of America spokesman Deron Smith said a resolution to amend the national policy to allow each Scoutings chartered group to set its own standards regarding gay members was turned in by a Scout leader from the Northeast before April 30, the deadline for submitting resolutions to the meeting. He said the resolution was read at the May 31 meeting." http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/06/12086046-boy-scouts-review-controversial-anti-gay-policy?lite

...where part of the profits go to sending kids to their 6 camps Nothing wrong with that, I wonder if each camp has a hockey program, eh? Good coffee (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)

I can't fault Zach's efforts. I do wonder if his next step is to approach the VFW and the American Legion. That should be interesting. Small steps. My $0.02

Good interview of Zach Wahls, now there's an Eagle Scout. My $0.02 http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc-tv/47616385/#47616385

MSNBC picked up the news story, hurray! http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/47615409/ns/business-careers/#.T8aU1MVqHQp

http://kgmi.com/To-always-be-prepared-Boy-Scouts-start-welding/12989761?newsId=145838 good article, excerpts below. Scouting should offer strong hands-on vocational merit badges, I remember when schools had "shop" classes to allow students a chance to try carpentry, metalwork, electrical work, plumbing,..good stuff. "More than 140,000 new welders will be needed by 2019 to replace retirees and meet rising demand from natural gas drillers, steel producers, automakers and more, according to the American Welding Society (AWS). The group helped the Boy Scouts of America award its first welding merit badge in March, hoping to offset waning interest in welding due to a cultural focus on four-year liberal arts degrees at the expense of community colleges and trade schools, industry experts say. "The Scouts start realizing that welding could lead to a viable career," said Sam Gentry of the AWS. "It's not just something to fix a fence." Among the roughly 450,000 U.S. welders, the average age is 55, and fewer than 20 percent are under the age of 35, according to AWS data. In addition to the Boy Scouts partnership, the AWS has boosted the amount in scholarships it doles out each year. It also built a $500,000 trailer equipped with "virtual" welding machines with the help of Lincoln Electric Holdings Inc. Last weekend, the machine made a pit stop at the Indianapolis 500 car race to tout the welding profession to young auto fans..." The Boy Scouts have already run out of their first printing of 11,000 welding training manuals, which cost about $5 each. Using the book, which outlines safety procedures, welding techniques and career potential, and through hands-on training in welding, Scouts can earn the badge in as little as 12 hours, the group says. "Boys like discovering things, exploring things with their hands," said Boy Scouts spokeswoman Renee Fairrer. "Something like welding is of interest to boys because it's not necessarily something they see as part of their everyday existence." A representative for the Girl Scouts of the USA wasn't available to comment on a potential welding merit badge for the group's members ..." (This message has been edited by RememberSchiff)