RememberSchiff

Over the years, I have had good experiences and bad experiences with law officers. I think the bad experiences are in part due to their forgetting that they are also here to serve the community and yes that also means being a role model 24x7 - a hard job. Allow me to introduce Grand Island, Nebraska police officer Butch Hurst, known as the police officer who never says no to scouts. http://www.theindependent.com/news/l...a4bcf887a.html

"U.S. Customs and Border Protection staff will fly to Iowa to visit with Boy Scout leaders about an incident on the Alaskan border that’s gaining national attention." Lawyer up. Tell the CBP to bring the film and we will supply the popcorn. Also inform them to leave their guns in Alaska and we will leave our pocket knives and matches home. Oh and lawyer up. Even though CBP knows the names of all scouts and adults at the port of entry incident, I'm not sure scouts should attend this meeting. Seek counsel about that. I'm sure their parents will want to attend. http://thegazette.com/subject/news/i...ction-20140725

Who to believe? Which side destroyed photo(s) perhaps relevant to the allegations? What if a scout states the photo he took and that was deleted by CBP was of a gun drawn at the port of entry? May need an independent investigator to sort this out. Who are you going to believe a Boy Scout or the Government? This is getting interesting. http://www.kcci.com/news/sen-grassley-reacts-to-border-incident-with-iowa-boy-scout/27125374#!bk4Cgy I think Mr. Fox needs to defer questions/interviews to a skilled attorney and certainly not speak with CBP unless the interview takes place in his attorney's office. Maybe the same advice for the parents of the 15 year old scout.

Why didn't the Customs border officers have control of the border inspection from the start, e.g., "All those in the vans exit and stand over there with Officer Smith while we check your vehicles." I don't buy the excuse that those with the guns were afraid. BTW, good to see all those videos of Alaska Customs posted by CBP on Youtube.

A little more precise in this followup report - Customs officer at a port of entry, gun drawn and pointed at scout, the $10K fine was nonsense. http://www.kcci.com/news/boy-scout-f...102496#!bkm97i I think the "civics lesson" for scouts is to take legal and legislative action so this does not happen again to any American. I think the ACLU has a related suit about photo taking. Get the Alaskan and Iowan congressional delegations involved.

[quote=Rick_in_CA;n414296 As for taking a picture being illegal, here is what the ACLU says: (would not paste quote -sorry) I don't think it's unreasonable to consider taking a photo falling under the definition of "videotaping or recording anything". That's a good point. Was the official a Border Patrol officer (legal to photo) or Customs officer (port of entry which may be illegal?). Anyway, if either pointed a handgun at a scout, I'm waiting to hear what the infraction or threat to national security warranted that action. So far, neither side is talking (after the initial report) which usually does nothing to correct an errant procedure or educate both sides.

Good lesson about the lost of our freedom in America. I bet Eric Holder thinks the scouts were 100% in the wrong. http://www.kcci.com/news/officer-poi...078396#!bjJ1Xs Hope our Bob Gates wakes up and takes issue.

NJ, I think that is what skeptic is saying and since those days are gone, move on with the now? If I could time transport my sons back to the mediocre scout troop that I was in in 60's, I would do it in a New York minute. We did not camp as much, we hiked more, but both were local. Our gear was army surplus, what we could borrow and occasionally what we could make. We never backpacked as our gear was too heavy, and we had no dutch ovens or iron skillets. Aluminum foil was KING! So why was the program so much better - we scouts lead the troop and that began the ADVENTURE to follow. We trained, planned, and prepared our own outings. I can only remember ONE hike where an adult accompanied us (he wanted to break in his boots). Philmont only required ONE adult accompany us in '69 and that was a disappointment. He was not needed. At 15 or so, our scouts should be ready for solo outdoor experiences as was done then. Philmont went the wrong direction regarding age requirements and adult supervision. The BSA compounded the problem with alternate advancement requirements. Personal Fitness was a tough merit badge for some of us, but everyone who passed met the same minimum requirements (pull-ups, push-ups, running,...) Eagles were physically strong and there was little question of their physical ability for outdoor activities. The Program had CHALLENGE with higher standards. Skill comparisons are skewed by differences in gear and outdoor policies. We made plenty of cathole latrines and dug drainage trenches around tents (no floors). Traditional scout skills like rope/knots, compass/map, knife/ax/WHITTLING, fire-building were stronger. We cooked over wood fire (coated the pan outside with Comet) - no charcoal, no stoves. We did have a Coleman lantern but that was the SM's gizmo. No idiotic adult patrols, one or two adults on campouts and they were our guests. More later... The gear has improved in some ways but now often requires adults to manage. Break a wooden tent pole, make a new one. No stoves to maintain or explosive fuel to store. We could repair our old Baker tents. We made our own waterproof matches. Camporees were about inter-troop patrol competitions, long gone now. but heh look at this new cool gear we got - a generator and a... keeping up with the Jones' oh and the occasional uniform police. Activities were more about teaching and letting scouts test themselves. Today it about entertaining scouts - fireworks, rock concerts, internet,... Scouts were moved along in the program. No one wanted to do the same thing each year. If scouts went to summer camp, they were 11-13, older scouts were either CIT's or counselor. Your participation in the program changed as you got older. Also the program was but a part of a boy's life, a boy learned to prioritize and balance family, school, work, community, scouts. I remember my SM checking report cards at the end of each period. If he was not happy with your grades, he assigned an older scout to tutor at that troop meeting. Troop POR's were not required for advancement. If a scout showed leadership in school, sports, community, or church that was accepted as leadership. In other words, leadership and scout advancement were separate. Did we think we were "roughing it"? Not so much. We were getting away from family (some sad stories there) and learning to live on our own and work together with our peers (patrol method). Mistakes and all, we were growing into men, thanks to being scouts. Yeah Youth Protection, but IMHO we have lost more than we have gained and I would point to the youth membership drop as proof. My $0.02

Some side notes: ' Though Vermont was the first state to pass a bottle law (1953) where a deposit was added for each beverage bottle as an inducement to recycle, the law covered beer, soda, but not water bottles. An expanded water bottle bill is under discussion as well as a repeal of the existing law. Concord, MA bans the sale of plastic water bottles. Like Vermont, Massachusetts bottle law does not cover water botttles either. NH has no bottle law. Yeah, I never understood why people buy $$$ water bottles. When I was a kid, the "water bottle" was a 1-2 quart refillable glass bottle in the fridge. Dad drank straight from the bottle while us kids had to use cups.

Somehow a year ago, I missed reading this article in Scouting magazine http://scoutingmagazine.org/2013/04/pro-fisherman-tom-redington-shares-how-to-hook-scouts-on-fishing/ Here's the boat. Similar to the standard issue boat we receive as SM/ASM's.

"Boy Scouts of America (BSA) launched a Hooked on Scouting photo contest, featuring their pro, Tom Redington. One lucky Scout and their family will win an all-expenses paid trip to the FLW Forrest Wood Cup on Lake Murray, SC in August. In addition to free lodging and travel, the winner gets a fishing trip in the Boy Scouts wrapped boat with Tom, VIP seating for all weigh-ins and concerts, plus he gets to attend the angler award banquet as Tom’s guest to meet all of the top pros." [video=youtube;3MZOtnRQ2wU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MZOtnRQ2wU&feature=youtu.be Contest entry link: https://a.pgtb.me/ZFZfK Who knew the BSA had a fishing pro and a boat?

Not to build, but to get studies done, permits approved (Conservation Commission, Planning Board, EPA). Also negotiations among partners and electricity buyers took time. Even a building a new school here in Massachusetts takes years to get approvals. November 2011 http://www.telegram.com/article/2011...WS/111059982/0 About 30 acres of the 1,600-plus-acre Boys Scouts of America reservation will be cleared for 20,500 solar panels, which will produce 6 megawatts of energy  the equivalent of powering 900 homes for a year. The panels will be installed and managed by Nexamp Inc., which will rent the land from the Scouts' Mohegan Council. Once all permits are in place, the project is expected to be operational by December 2012. The town of Rutland passed a zoning bylaw on solar panels two weeks ago. May, 2012 Neighbors express concerns http://www.thelandmark.com/news/2012...ar_panel_.html April, 2013 Comprehensive study by engineering students at Worcester Polytechnic Institute (WPI) https://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/A...MQP_Report.pdf

Started in 2011, the Mohegan Council Solar Project six-megawatt installation at Treasure Valley was switched on June 30,2014. Nexamp, a solar energy services firm from Boston, developed, designed and built the array with financing from SunEdison which owns the solar installation and leases 35 acres from Treasure Valley Scout Reservation (1600 acres) in central Massachusetts. "For the next 20 years, SunEdison will sell the energy produced by the array to the Upper Blackstone Water Pollution Abatement District, the Dudley- Charlton Regional School District and the Southern Worcester County Educational Collaborative. Jeff Hotchkiss, Scout Executive/ CEO of the Mohegan Council said the Boy Scouts will receive a sustainable source of income to expand their programs and the money will help cash flow and add to the capitalization fund and endowment fund, The Mohegan Council will also include an educational initiative for campers at Treasure Valley and in local schools with a goal of fostering better stewardship of natural resources. An alternative energy educational curriculum is also being developed by the Mohegan Council, which will develop the curriculum and fund teachers’ salaries in cooperation with the Christa McAuliffe Center at Framingham State University, The Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics at Harvard University and National Grid." http://www.thelandmark.com/news/2014...ans_a_bri.html

Thanks for the longer video clip. Looks interesting but maybe more for adults. That old "boy scout" should have read Kudu's website on making snowshoes among other winter survival skills. http://www.inquiry.net/outdoor/winter/gear/snowshoes/index.htm

I have heard about this short film by Patrick Brooks primarily due to its title but have not seen it. Has anyone seen this? Is it scout appropriate? [video=youtube;JyyPGCjVmOU] Here's an interview http://www.galomagazine.com/movies-tv/walking-an-unknown-path-filmmaker-patrick-brooks-talks-the-boy-scout/#.U7wn57GCHPE

Select a starting date range to keep it simple and just list name, year, town, state, troop number. No past or current mailing address, phone numbers, email addresses, certainly no Eagle Scout number. What this fellow was perhaps a little neurotic about was those few who falsely claim to be Eagle Scouts and there being no easy way to prove one way or another. Still it does seem to be inconsistent that National has so many lawyers protecting the BSA "brand" while allowing any guy to call himself an Eagle scout.

Over the July 4th weekend, someone mentioned that he had googled for a list of Eagle Scouts and found various links of "famous" Eagle scouts but not THE list of all Eagle scouts from first to most recent. He wanted to know why there was not such a list as it seemed a good idea to him. This seemed an obvious good idea to me too. The only explanation that I could offer him was that National, NESA, and local Councils have not managed those records. Not sure if most troops know all their Eagles going back to day one. Lost scouting history?

Gwendolyn Hallsmith, candidate for mayor of Montpelier, explains Merlyn's point further: http://www.vermonttoday.com/apps/pbc...9894/-1/blogs; Lesson in civics The latest controversy at City Hall is a good civics lesson, and what better time to learn it than the Fourth of July? Whether or not you agree with the Boy Scouts’ bigoted, discriminatory stance on homosexuals should be set aside for a moment, while we consider how cities should behave under the circumstances. There has been a lot of blame being passed around, but the real culprits are a mayor and a City Council who do not appear to have even a rudimentary grasp of the policymaking process. When you accept the mantle of a local elected official, you need to be willing to set aside your private opinions on every subject, from Boy Scout leaders to public banks, and allow the legally mandated policymaking process to do its work. Public officials are not supposed to shoot from the hip, as Thierry Guerlain did when he raised the issue of the Boy Scouts national policy in the context of a vendor permit application. Does the vendor permit policy (there is one, in fact) require the City Council to consider the national policies of all the organizations that apply? (It does not.) Has the City Council ever done that before? Why weren’t the Boy Scouts questioned on this issue last year? The year before? Policies require that the City Council follow due process, post public discussions, and allow all sides to be heard. The mere fact that they tabled this hot button issue to the next meeting does not in itself constitute a properly warned policy discussion on whether applicants for vendor permits provide assurance that their company or organization has adequate civil rights policies on the books. If it’s going to apply to the Boy Scouts, it needs to apply to everyone. Policies that apply to whole cities need the whole city involved in the discussion, individual council members’ opinions and sensibilities notwithstanding. This applies to the vendor permits, the master plan, the zoning, the personnel policies, all the legally adopted policies of the city government. When the process for policymaking is ignored, we sacrifice our essential democratic rights to the narrow ambitions of a few badly informed individuals. That’s not what my ancestors fought and died for after July 4, 1776. What about yours? Gwendolyn Hallsmith Montpelier Responses on her facebook page, particulalry from the Town Clerk, would support Stosh's point about the town's next election. IMO, throw all the nuts out and ship them to the nearby Ben & Jerry's ice cream factory. Maybe a new flavor - Smoke on the Water? https://www.facebook.com/pages/Gwend...03176393095852

Who is asking for a pizza party or any compensation or even a thank you? We just want to be treated fairly, believe me, I remember when we were.

My expectation is just fairness, specifically that our scouts are not punished for the acts of others beyond their control. No quid pro quo.

With the recent difficulties with fundraising at Montpelier,VT. I was reminded of another incident and the power of public opinion and tradition. As I recall for nearly 60 years, scouts had sold Christmas trees on the "town commons" owned by the Kendrick family in Amherst, MA. Around 2006?, the "town commons" became Kendrick Park now owned by the town and a new town manager arrived. As Christmas approached, the town manager decided a "usage policy" was needed for the Kendrick Park and the scout troop(s) would now have to pay $1/tree sold. The scout troop(s) sought another venue (a tax refuge?). As word spread, the public became outraged that town government had tampered with a town holiday tradition. The tax on Christmas trees was dropped. Almost a Mr. Smith Goes to Washington moment. So withdrawing from the venue while working on a Plan B, building publicity over a questionable change in a desired tradition/need, and then gaining public support worked in that situation. Later the town manager stated his tax on the joy of Christmas has not been his “…most glorious moment in public administration.†"

Tuesday, July 1, 8:50PM PDT "Police believe the handgun found at the scene will be traced to Las Vegas and that the boy brought the gun to camp himself, according to a statement from SDPD. Police also said the gun was unregistered." http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/PD-Boy-Scout-Brought-Gun-to-Camp-265468611.html

I am glad you mentioned this as I expected a larger number of similar responses. My IH and COR agree with you, turn the cheek and be a good scout and help with the cleanup. Maybe but I doubt this town council would have "learned" from that teaching approach. My father told me, a dog will only take so much kicking after that he won't come back. My $0.01