RememberSchiff

Don't like my example? Okay, but I think you understand the point I was making.

Less you go in severe shock, donations in money and some equipment are not turned away. Well that depends on your perspective. A PD wanting 100% pass seems unrealistic to SM. A SM wanting his scout to know and complete 100% of the MB seems unrealistic to PD. From personal experience, PD's often need to learn how to interact and trust adult volunteers. As the BSA emphasizes conflict-avoidance (ignore the geezers?), I am not optimistic. Quality of instruction and completion of requirements. Instructors unqualified as in cannot do first aid, they just read from the merit badge book. Heed "Do no further harm". Eagle MB and so the class is usually too large. Req 1 - too often assumed even if scout is not FC, so current knowledge is not demonstrated. Bandaging skills weak. What is a cravat? Req 2d SM believes cannot be done at camp. Req 3 - Patient survey not taught. CPR/AED often skipped for lack of experience or practice equipment. Req 4 - Splinting skill weaker than bandaging. Immobilization is not understood Req 5 - See Req 1, often assumed and skipped Req 6 - Most time spent here as carrying and running around with stretchers is fun Reg 7. Teach Reg 6 of course Citizenship, for the parts that can be done at camp, a knowledgeable staff is not present. It is almost as bad as the Jay Leno "Ask the Man on the Street". Our camp has it strengths and weaknesses, so with our troop adult help ignored with the latter, our SM directs our scouts to the strong areas. There is some action on the CIT age requirements. Some 13yr olds are more equal than others it seems. Another $0.02

Thanks for link. Your friend states "At many levels, France seems, at least partly, to be coming to terms with a new and visible generation of French men and women, millions of them the children and grandchildren of African immigrants." I would append "who are prevented or choose not to integrate into French society" and I think the generalization is true for all nations including us. "At many levels, countries need to come to terms with a new generation of citizens men and women, millions of them the children and grandchildren of immigrants or natives (legal or not) who are prevented or choose not to integrate into that nation's society." I think the US sometimes does a better job with some of our groups than others but we have had a long string of failures and a long way to go. Amish, American Indian (innocent Muslims were not sent to a Carlisle school), black, disabled, Japanese, Muslim (more died at 9/11 than Pearl Harbor but Muslim-Americans were not rounded up and placed in camps as Japanese Americans were), gay, Hispanic (bilingual programs seem to be part of the problem)... I will add this observation of a immigrant group (Russian) that deliberately refused to integrate into a nation's (Ukraine) society. Part of that nation (Crimea) is now part of Russia. Putin had a plan all along. As Scout leaders, we have seen the problems when the Scout Oath and Law are ignored for some councils, some units, or some scouts and what happens when National does not come to terms with a new generation of families and youth. Another $0.02,

As has been stated, qualified adult MBC's are often available but are turned away. These adult MBC's are either there with their troop for a week or are willing to volunteer for a week or two to teach scouts and correct the MB mill process. Be aware some scout camp sessions are now just 4 weeks. These adult volunteers are just not wanted; we have listed the excuses in this thread. Maybe change the tread to "Educating Camp Program Directors to accept adult volunteer MB help." We are considering our own troop summer camp though some adults would rather just send scouts to Provo and restrict which MB can be worked on. Our SM will not allow camp First Aid and Citizenship MB's. Previous complaints have been sent to Camp directors and SE and every summer it is same-old-same-old. My prediction is my troop will repeat same-old, same-old - hold their nose, go to same camp, see same problems, offer help, refused, complain, I remember when CIT minimum age was 15, it is now 13. And on it goes, round and round. My $0.02,

Sentinel thanks for the follow-up. Do they have concealed carry permits in Paris? No. The police guarding Charlie Hebdo were not even armed.

And what happened to multiculturalism last week? We were reminded that integration into a nation's culture and laws is critically important, or as Moroccan-born mayor of Rotterdam Ahmed Aboutaleb,himself a Muslim, told Muslims who have a problem with Western culture to “pack their bags and f--- off ... if you do not like freedom, in Heaven’s name pack your bag and leave."

Update from last night's meeting, etc. http://www.wktv.com/news/local/Scout...roperties.html Steven McEwan is the Scout Executive for the council. He says the plan is to use money from the sale (Russell and Cedarlands) to make many improvements to the 400 acre Camp Kingsley in Ava."The board voted that 5-10% of the initial sale will go immediately to help the development of Camp Kingsley. The rest will be put in an endowment where we will take a 5% draw every year for ongoing maintenance and programs at camp." The plan is to build cabins at Kingsley and install plumbing. McEwan also wants to incorporate STEM programs, even robotics and computer design in the future. Officials also hope to be more active in the neighboring Fish Creek for kayaking and fishing. They'll even have the means to add new programs with ATV's and snowmobiles. ... Officials don't anticipate the property will take long to sell, how it will be sold though is still undecided. The committee will meet Wednesday night to iron out those details. While the property will be up for sale immediately, plans for summer camp will go on as scheduled for 2015. No mention of the Camp Russell 2.5 acre parcel that cannot be sold (the NCAP process did not undercover this, rather the outside-the-loop scouting community) or further qualification about the endowment fund. IMO STEM programs, ATV's, and snowmobiles (on just a 400 acres Camp KIngsley?) and the required training, maintenance, insurance, and staffing will deplete that endowment quickly. Selling the primitive camp Cedarlands (over 4,300 acres with two lakes and three mountains) is not a good move, but apparently council/BSA now has an emotional connection to mimicking school STEM programs and turning away from our core outdoor program.

Good points. I occasionally discuss values (our freedoms), tolerance, respect, expectations, and vigilance around recent events at camp, school, town, the world. I need to learn and think more about this and discuss with my scouts more. As citizens, what response should we have to a group here who use their religion/ethnicity/position/affiliation/circumstances/whatever excuse to justify their crimes or suppress our freedoms? Can we have pocket communities which are free to be apart from America's laws and values, can a house divided still stand? Are we to be a nation with a rule of law? And many more questions...

We are not proud as war quickly shows us we are not the "good guy" or scout we thought we were. Duty, the other guy did it first, better them than us, whatever ends this quickest are our justifications. And they may work for the winning side but still don't always comfort in hindsight. Baden Powell as an example here might cause us discomfort. As to JoeBob's point about denying martyrdom and reward to "negative impact on their ability to recruit and motivate suicide attackers" is well considered, however, I think his burial idea would only motivate new recruits to seek revenge. Maybe the "Issues and Politics" forum should be removed or locked, as the connection of scouting with "issues and politics" is often not discussed. My $0.02

Having an Issues and Politics forum provided an open door. Let it stand for discussion. It seems human nature to speak disparagingly of your wartime enemy. Is it scout-like to do so? No. Is war scout-like? World Brotherhood, if so why the different set of rules? Perhaps at times, we need to think and fight like our enemy. What is a scout's responsibility during war - stateside and frontline? Duty to Country. What ideas do you have to better serve our country during this time of war? How does censoring this discussion help? Denying heaven, reminded me of John Ford's movie The Searchers [brad Jorgenson takes a small boulder and attempts to crush the skull of a dead Comanche warrior, the actor in grave is very obviously breathing] Reverend Clayton: Jorgenson! Ethan: Why don't you finish the job? [shoots out the eyes of the Comanche warrior] Reverend Clayton: What good did that do ya? Ethan: By what you preach, none. But what that Comanche believes, ain't got no eyes, he can't enter the spirit-land. Has to wander forever between the winds.You get it, Reverend. Ethan: [to Martin] Come on, blanket-head! My quick $0.01 for rambling

As shown, the Camp Facilities Evaluation Tool (CFET) has little or no honest analytical value in evaluating a camp. It is a means to an end. If you want to see the end of a particular camp for whatever reason then that is the means to justify it. The Summit might only score a C with my subjective use of this tool. If council has no local camp, there is no need for that council. Resistance is futile.

Followup with photos and more info at this link: http://www.newstimes.com/local/article/Area-first-responders-stage-mock-search-for-lost-6006819.php "Here's the scenario: After splitting into three groups to seek help for a 12-year-old who fell off a cliff and broke his leg, seven local Boy Scouts went missing somewhere in the 170 acres of open space at the John Sherman Hoyt Scout Reservation.Fortunately, the boys were not actually missing: They and emergency responders from multiple jurisdictions were engaged in a large-scale woodland search and rescue drill led by the West Redding Fire Department. Temperatures were in the teens and the ground was still covered with ice from Friday morning's snow showers when the two-hour exercise took place. Erik Areklett, of Redding Troop 15, played the role of the injured Scout. Another boy stayed with him while the other kids searched for help. Responders were able to practice emergency medical treatment and patient removal, off-road utility vehicle response, K-9 search, and personnel rehab and support services. ..." Second attempt to post

Oops... The Boy Scout Revolutionary Trail Council will maintain a small parcel of land at Camp Russell. After the news broke that the Boy Scouts were selling 400 acres in White Lake many people expressed concern over whether or not the organization had the right to sell the property. Camp Russell is made up of 8 parcels of land donated to the organization at different times over the past 100 years. Some of those parcels had clauses that stated if the property was no longer going to used as a scout camp, it was to be given back to the Russell family. The clauses came with expiration dates and many of those have expired. The clauses that have not expired have been removed by the family with the exception of one. There is still a 2.5 acre parcel that will not be sold. ... http://www.wktv.com/news/local/Boy_Scouts_to_retain_small_parcel_of_land_at_Camp_Russell.html

I needed some good news and I think I found it. Outdoor emergency drill by the pro's (WRFD, RSAR, a FEMA CERT service team, etc.) who will setup a National Incident Management System (NIMS) command at a scout camp. Scouts will be trained and involved in the drill. http://www.thereddingpilot.com/20852...ill-on-jan-10/ Boy Scouts from Redding Troop 15 will fill the role of lost and injured patients while also being taught the fundamentals of emergency first aid and wilderness survival. “This drill represents an opportunity for our Scouts to contribute to an important event and an amazing opportunity to learn vital life-saving skills from some of the best in the field of emergency services said Raymond Schaer, troop leader. Sounds done right.

Agreed. Thanks for the link E94. Wow, this appears written by a committee of chucklehead realtors! (further colorful adjectives and punctuation clusters removed). The Evaluation Tool is meant just for facilities and property, Staffing, program, or procedures are addressed in the longer Camp Accreditation document. Okay BUT Reading the A-F grading levels The repeated key points in the Camp Facilities Evaluation Tool states - reflects well the BSA brand - it all about appearances, curb appeal eh? - paint everything whether it needs it or not. - NO MENTION OF SAFETY until reach grade F - First Aid has equal importance to a Trading Post!!!! Get real! Cook's and Ranger quarters rated least important. I don't think so. IMO the above should emphasize these unmentioned, minor details - camp is SAFE, then detail requierments for access roads, fire safety, storm shelters, first aid, evac, I want a Life-flighthelicopter landing spot, waterfront, forest management, camp security (locks, fences, security system), disability access - drinking water and drainage - septic management. No mention of number of latrines/bathrooms/showers ... - trash handling (odd they mention rodent feces but not control) - CAMP FACILITIES are present and in good condition to PROVIDE SAFE YEAR ROUND PROGRAM SUPPORT - proper and secure storage of assets, ventilation My 2 aspirin,

Two interesting articles about the closing of two camps Camp Russell in Forestport,NY and the Cedarlands Scout site in Long Lake,NY and the upgrading of another, Camp Kingsley in Ava http://romesentinel.com/county/boys-scouts-to-sell-historic-camp-russell/QBqoaf!3TYUVIfWShcOfYn0pkKaWg/ Plans call for using about 5-10 percent of sale proceeds from Camp Russell and the Cedarlands for immediate improvements at Camp Kingsley, McEwan said. Other proceeds would be invested in an endowment fund to help with ongoing maintenance and expenses at Camp Kingsley, he added. ... Camp Kingsley would require an estimated $290,950 investment to be upgraded to a “Camp Facility Evaluation Tool” ( anyone know about this tool ) score of “A,” compared to its current “D+” score, documents said. Camp Russell had a current score of “C-” and needed a $322,275 investment for an “A,” while Cedarlands also had a “D+” score but would need a $2.29 million investment for an “A” score. http://www.uticaod.com/article/20150106/News/150109783/?Start=1 For more than 10 years, the council has been watching enrollment decline as more entertainment options emerge for youth. In the early 1960s, McEwan estimated the councils four districts had a combined enrollment of more than 20,000. Today, it is closer to 2,000. In other words, running three camps is not sustainable any more. We put a little into all three camps, but there is not a whole lot to show for anything,McEwan said. If we put everything at one camp, we do not have to have three kitchens, three shower houses, three of everything. And while many who are or were affiliated with the council agree with that, they have a different question: Why keep Kingsley northwest of Rome open, and not Russell? Orlo Burch, an Ilion resident who is a former Cub Scout Pack leader and whose son is a member of Ilion Troop 9, is one of those. Kingsley, he said, does not have access to a body of water as big as White Lake, so Scouts could miss out on opportunities such as small boat sailing they had at Russell. You can call any troop, they are all upset, Burch said. This is taking away skill development and programs that they will not (immediately) be able to do at (Camp Kingsley). They have punched every Boy Scout in the stomach.

Update Jan 8, http://www.foxcarolina.com/story/277...wn-stolen-guns Deputies said unknown suspects broke into a storage facility at the Scout reservation and took 13 Marlin .22-caliber single-shot, bolt-action competition rifles; four Weatherby 12-gauge pump shotguns; one Remington 12-gauge pump shotgun; and three Remington 20-gauge pump shotguns worth a total of $14,400. ( hmmm, must have some serious gold inlay? - RS) The burglary happened sometime between 1 p.m. on Monday, Dec. 15 and 2:30 p.m. on Wednesday, Dec. 17 2014. Well when Mrs. RS asks me why I'm online with gunbroker again, I'll explain I'm looking for these stolen firearms.

The firearms were not secured. No whiny-boy excuses. Camp buildings are not secure - remote and usually easy to kick in a door, break a window, or chain saw through a wall. A previous theft warning was ignored. Firearms not under our direct control should be stored in a secure vault . Add a alarm system and surveillance camera. I recommend a reinforced steel Fort Knox vault, a 19 yr kid who knows a 1000x more than I might recommend a Sentry sheet metal cabinet. Off summer camp season, our camp stores all camp rifles and shotguns at a local gun shop. Personally I follow my own advice and added a dog whose apprehension record is 1-0. My previous remark was an understatement. Another tip from someone who is good 20 years past this new 45 year old expiration date. Do not store bows with laminated limbs (archery) in outside steel storage trailers/lockers as the inside temps changes can cause the limbs to de-laminate. The bows, of course, are not strung.

One merit badge taught well at summer camp for just a week by one qualified old fart or for more weeks by many coordinated old farts is one badge more than is taught well now. I am there at camp for a week and mostly just take photos while merit badge classes are going on. I could one teach one or more badges while there and who knows maybe the college kid counselor who can do these things "1000x better than I" might learn something so as to better teach in the remaining weeks. But Noooooo... "Say Mr. RS, at the Lodge we are offering a YP class for all the adults here at camp. Want to re-certify since you aren't doing anything?" My $0.02 for the college kid to spend on can of Arizona at the camp store.

Closed "Tuesday night was the final night of activity out at Camp Strake, which used to be in an isolated patch of land near Conroe.... Johnson Development purchased the property and is planning residential and retail space on the 2,000-acre site that includes several lakes and bayous. The Boy Scouts are relocating away from the sprawl." http://www.kvue.com/story/news/state...ears/21124263/ http://www.khou.com/story/news/local/neighborhood/2014/12/30/camp-strake-closing-after-70-years/21090359/

Not long ago, around here the cost of a district event just covered event expenses, usage fee, food if any, event patch in the range of $5-15. In recent years, we are seeing district events charging $20-30/scout or more, but attendance is down (too $$) such that two or more districts commonly merge events to raise attendance in order to see a "profit", i.e., fund council. Council says that they need the money and that this has been done for years with other "events" - summer camp and high adventure treks.

I and other adults have offered to help in the past as after all we are already there, but the various program directors have rejected the idea for "safety" reasons. More likely they feared losing control to continue to do things the camp way - rubber-stamped blue cards, etc. But to answer your first question, it would have to be seamless. I would insist that I conduct my merit badge class the same way I normally do - the scout has already done the prereqs if any, read the book, no previous work accepted unless documented with a blue card and even then I will ask question, all requirements to be completed, a small and manageable class... quality of instruction over quantity of merit badges, all contrary to the current camp program. Second question, to get older college kids? 1. Shorter work week, i.e., give them (and us) back their weekend. Camp begins say Sunday afternoon/evening or even Monday morning and ends Friday afternoon. Closing campfire is Thursday night. 2. Work with colleges to set up some credited work/study 3. Better pay would help, particularly increases for returning counselors. To get adults. 1. Treat us like adults. 2. Offer part time day with no uniform requirements, just Health forms A & B. 3. Taxi/gator transport to class location. 4. On site secure storage of merit badge materials. 5. Free coffee 6. Support our decisions. If we feel the scout's work was incomplete, a partial it is. Period. My $0.02, and I like my coffee black

- If gas prices continue down, our unit may try more distant camping. - Our unit is moving towards an adult run, car camping, Eagle mill. - I am seeing an increase in provo camping and decrease in troop camping at local summer camps. Adults cannot take or will not take vacation time or will not be hassled with paperwork. - Council costs continue to rise despite mergers and camp sales. Families are beyond fatigue with fundraising.Council sent out a stern Nov donation mailing about the Council cost for a scout/year and the need to donate. Unfortunately, their mailing list was largely those who donated to FOS in March! - Our council can't fill a trek bus even if they combined all who signed up for Philmont, Summit, Sea Base, Northern Tier. Too $$$ - Need quicker turnaround of "new" merit badges. A new scout can earn FC quicker than National can introduce a new badge! We had two scouts interested in Animation merit badge which has been repeatedly delayed. They left in Sept. Announce a new merit badge and it should be in the next year's Requirements book. Don't worry about printing a merit badge book, scouts won't read them. Think online resource videos and pdf's. - scouts are interested in STEM badges - robotics, welding, - wired scouts. More and more tech on outings. A scout is more likely to carry a smartphone than a knife. . - Increasing cost of abuse settlements. Recently, a Connecticut jury issued a $7mil verdict (compensatory damages) against BSA National, - The Annual Meeting in May? After last year's meeting, Gates said that he would have allowed gay leaders as well scouts. That said, I predict 2015 will be a good year locally for scout units. Council and National not so much. My $0.02,

The Sunday Gazette-Mail has announced the West Virginian of the Year for 2014 - the Boy Scout. “A lot of Scouting’s impact on West Virginia is hard to measure in terms of dollars and cents,†Jeffrey Purdy, president of BSA’s Buckskin Council,said. http://www.wvgazette.com/article/20141228/GZ01/141229485