RememberSchiff

Philmont has had floods before when communications were worse. - Camp above high water mark. Even 20ft above stream may be below the high water mark for that camp. - Quick exit from tent which may be moving, rolling, sinking, or burning. Glad that ranger was able to break a window to exit cabin.

Makes sense, back then a bear poked his head in our tent. The issue of quit exit from zipper tents has been raised before though fire was the concern. Two zipper doors and hi-viz zipper pulls were mentioned as soultions.Having a knife handy helps.

CBS news has picked up the story. The video has as aerial view of the camp area along with a meteorologist explaining weather conditions. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/tents-trapped-boy-scouts-deadly-new-mexico-flooding-police-reports/ Maybe zipper tents will be banned next. We used zipper-less, floorless tents back in the 60's when we camped at Ponil.

Were they camped below the high water mark?

Great find. Thanks for research. I was curious and found that Christopher Johnson made knives at Western Works in Sheffield from 1859 to 1955.

Details of deadly flash flood raise questions of oversighthttp://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/local_news/details-of-deadly-flash-flood-raise-questions-of-oversight-at/article_ba4cd170-af60-5eb7-a7af-22f77c9a41b8.html A gripping and disturbing detailed follow-up story. Questions about camp site selection, lack of radios, trapped in tents. “...There was anecdotal evidence and reports from folks that it could’ve been as high as 20 feet,†Jones added. “It was a tremendous amount of water.†The state police investigation is now closed. In police interviews, investigators called the deadly flood a freak accident that couldn’t have been prevented. “It was an unfortunate incident that occurred, and unfortunately that group of Boy Scouts got caught up in it,†state police spokesman Sgt. Chad Pierce said in an interview. The police report states that a campsite farther upstream flooded regularly and “was closed for the safety of the scouts,†but it doesn’t indicate how far upstream or if a specific event prompted its closure. The Philmont Scout Ranch declined to answer any questions and referred inquiries to the Boy Scouts of America, which also declined to answer any questions, including whether any alerts were issued that night, what emergency procedures were in place, whether the organization had investigated the incident and what, if anything, could have been done to prevent Alden’s death. “The passing of Alden Brock earlier this summer was a tragic accident and our staff continues to mourn the loss of this exceptional young man,†the Philmont Scout Ranch said in a statement issued by the Boy Scouts of America. The organization also declined a request by The New Mexican to tour the site. “We’re not scheduling any on-site media availability at Philmont Scout Ranch at this time,†it said in an email. Alden’s father, Roger Brock, declined a request for an interview. “Not at this moment,†he said by telephone. In the last 10 years, at least 46 Boy Scouts, adult leaders or guests have died during Boy Scout outings, including four this year, according to a search of news accounts and public records. Joel C. Simon, a Houston lawyer who sued the Boy Scouts on behalf of the parents of a 10-year-old who was struck and killed by a golf cart during a recruiting event in Texas in 2012, said the family deserves to know what happened. ..." “I think the family … certainly is entitled to answers and whether those need to come from a lawsuit or elsewhere, I don’t know,†he said. “I feel horrible for the family.â€

Update September 26, 2015 https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/09/26/wilderness-refuge-nantucket-focus-dispute-between-rival-boy-scout-groups/PDQIHUccm0vl4GSJy97CBI/story.html "In the coming weeks, a judge on Cape Cod will decide whether to allow a lawsuit to proceed that would allow the Scouts organization on Cape Cod to sell nearly a third of the 100-acre tract known as Camp Richard. ... The council’s publicly available financial statements show the group has had significant expenses and losses in recent years, though it has a healthy endowment. The effort to sell the land comes as Boy Scout membership has plummeted in recent years, making it the latest example of local councils around the country selling tens of millions of dollars worth of property received as gifts. Officials from the Boy Scouts of America, which has lost nearly a third of its members since 2000, declined to comment on the potential sale on Nantucket or why so many councils have sold their land. ... MacKinnon, the land developer, who said he would pay at least $5 million (up from his earlier 3.5 million offer...yeah for affordable housing?) for the (30 acre) property , argues that the sale would benefit the Boy Scouts on Nantucket. He said that his plans would leave two-thirds of the land untouched and allow the campground to continue operating. He also pointed out that the Scouts use only a small portion of the land, where they have five campgrounds, a sprawling lodge, and bathing facilities. ... The Nantucket Civic League provided the property to Boy Scouts on the island in several installments starting in the 1950s. The deed required the land be used for Scout activities; if that changed, the group would be obliged to return it to the Civic League. In court documents, the Cape Cod council argued that it is the rightful owner because the organization’s bylaws prohibit a subsidiary district, such as Nantucket’s, from owning land. The Cape Cod group also argued that the deed restrictions have expired. Lawyers for the Nantucket Boy Scouts and the Civic League, which supports the district committee, argue that the deed restrictions haven’t expired because state law doesn’t impose time limits when land is used for charitable purposes. They also say the land was expressly given to the Scouts on Nantucket — not the Cape Cod council, which didn’t become their parent group until decades later. " Hope the judge does right for scouts and Nantucket.

My understanding, you will not find "Class B" in BSA literature as a company, a BSA licensee, exists by the same name.

...St. Paul Police Officer Jay Curiel and his dog Havoc walked through the door and into the fourth-grader's Cub Scout meeting... http://www.cbsnews.com/news/minnesota-boy-skips-birthday-presents-to-buy-bullet-proof-vests-for-k-9s/ good story

No doubt your efforts helped. "Yes, a scout salute to Mr. Wallace. I am still waiting to see National acknowledge Robert Dick Douglas Jr. of Greensboro, who is also an Eagle and will be 103 in July. He also is one of the Eagle's that went to Africa in 1928, as well as having gone to Alaska twice. He wrote books about the Alaska adventures, and co-authored Three Boy Scouts in Africa. I have given the info to National a couple of times, after speaking with his son last year, who said he was still mentally active. He sent me a copy of his auto-biography last year, and it is very interesting and includes a good deal related to Scouting. He wrote it when he was 90. It can be found in digital form on line; https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Best_90_Years_of_My_Life.html?id=H5o1F2AXTioC&hl=en . " - skeptic May 23, 2015

Agree. The Boy Scouts is no longer a youth adventure, it's a family program.

Thanks for the correction.

http://bsahandbook.org/ https://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=327240445&mt=8 http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29558/29558-h/29558-h.htm <--- 1911 edition

If I may...I keep googling for news of Obama, Bear Grylls, Alaska, boy scouts but nothing. It would be cool if some local scouts loaned the President a Scout Handbook - electronic or otherwise. I know, wait for the episode to air as maybe good surprises await. Maybe the President will show scouts how to make a fire with a Blackberry.

I have read some councils are now giving away free rocket kits if one joins scouting. Some units give a free handbook and/or neckerchief and/or Boys' Life for joining and have done so for years. More and more freebies. Maybe a free subscription to X-box Live is next. Funny how on the opposite side, scouts and their families are balking at any fundraisers. Our PLC told recently told a shocked Troop Committee to forget about popcorn and any "purchased" food, etc for COH. We will see how far that goes. Parents have been pushing for a stated yearly. all inclusive "troop membership fee" with weekly and monthly payment options.

Merlyn, thanks that second article is worth reading and discussing. Wouldn't that be something if the President said to Grylls, "Heh, Bob (Gates) worked for me awhile ago. Lets get him on a conference call and talk. We can grab some salmon with our teeth later."

I wonder if the Secretary of Interior, Sandy Jewel, will also be along? Her knowledge of climate and energy issues and experience in the outdoors are well known and respected. Maybe she can take the President and Scouter Grylls down to Antarctica to retrace her earlier climb of Vinson Massif?

Remember the local uproar in Florida when Cape Canaveral was renamed Cape Kennedy in 1963? In NH, the state legislature attempted to rename Mt. Clay which is in the Presidential range of the White Mts. to Mt. Reagan but the federal mapmakers kept it Mt. Clay. To calm the upset Ohio delegation, perhaps NASA can name a mountain on Mars after McKinley after all he never set foot on Mars either.

My mistake, move if you like. I hope there will be some mention of scouting in the episode.

"President Barack Obama will trek through the wilderness in Alaska this week with British TV adventurer Bear Grylls, the NBC channel has announced. He is due to tape an episode of Running Wild with Bear Grylls to observe the effects of climate change on the area. He is the first president to appear on the show, to be aired later this year. President Obama is on a three-day tour of Alaska aimed at highlighting the pace of climate change." I wonder if they will discuss scouting? http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34109681 http://www.nbc.com/running-wild-with-bear-grylls Oh and Mr. President, a Scout Salute for renaming Mount McKinley to Mount Denali.

GREAT STORY! Watch video interview with 13yr old scout. http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/teen-scout-helps-save-dad-hurt-falling-boulder-rugged-wilderness-n417521 Scout Salute.

If so, consider similar attempts to increase membership from a specific population - Improved Scouting Program with an urban focus, scouting as a "family program", Summit for the 10 per-centers. There are at least three STEM programs in the BSA - the old merit badge program with Chemistry, Electronics, Welding, ... - the STEM/NOVA an embellished merit badge program??? Sorry I don't get it. Why not improve the merit badges themselves. - STEM Scouts which is pilot program entering its second year. I think we will see major revisions in STEM scouts this academic year. My $0.01 for rambling

Money. There are many youth STEM grants to be had from both government and the private sector. As an example, I recently received an email from FIRST asking volunteer help in social media voting to win a $500K award from Microsoft. Some of these STEM grants can fit into a school curriculum, but many would rather be outside, free of teacher unions, Common Core, open to all kids in a community. No surprise Boy and Girls Clubs, 4-H, and Girl Scouts are in the STEM money chase. Acquiring STEM grants is a way for the BSA to get back lost corporate donations. My $0.02

Back in the day, quality control of the BSA program was policed by councils. Their territorial marshalls were called Neighborhood Commissioners who dropped in on units. They looked at the program, troop finances, held uniform inspection, etc. If the unit failed to meet standards, he gave guidance and returned in a a couple of months to repeat the process. Those NC's had the power to dismiss volunteers and revoke charters. Scouting did not need a large number of adults as it had great, experienced adults ("The Greatest Generation"). Council was responsible for the BSA program in its geographic area. But as you know that changed, responsibility for the BSA program was surrendered to CO's. There were other gross mistakes which contributed - change in Wood Badge, Improved Scouting Program, National Leadership... a perfect storm. What I find hard to take are the former scouts who gave up on scouting, who discouraged their sons from joining and otherwise would not help, not even as MBC's. Yeah I wish my sons could experience the scouting of 50's and 60's. Recall a few years ago, NESA sent out postcards to old Eagle Scouts and only got about a 30% return. Bummer.

IMO, good ole troop/patrol meetings are the best means of communication. Miss the meeting and it is up to the scout to find out, not up to the SM, SPL, PL, or MOM to text/phone/email/smoke-signal him. My $0.02,