RememberSchiff

I was talking about requiring overnight/weekend camping trips and other fee-based camp activities at council camps from Sept to May (fall,winter,spring).

So other camp franchises within 5 miles? 50? 100? Weed out the camps or the Council management?

But why not force Council and us to fix the problems at camps instead of going for the easy out - sell. What leadership, anyone can shrink/sell/merge business segments! We need leadership that can build and grow the business. I see the same problem ahead for our $$$ STEM centers - repetitive programs, Cub focused, poor staffing, inflexible schedules, perhaps not satisfying a need. My understanding is Trail for LIfe owns just one small camp but continues to eschew owning camps. Is that our future?. Another $0.01

I was reading this morning about yet another old scout camp closing, Camp Boyhaven in Saratoga County, NY https://dailygazette.com/article/2017/05/02/camp-boyhaven-for-sale-milton-scouting-camp-to-end-nearly-100-year-run The usual reasons including attendance has dropped 50% since 2015! Membership has not dropped that much. The conventional wisdom has been, get better programs and scouts will come but too late they have already left for "better" outings. Boycotting a camp seldom improves it, rather seals its outright sale or sale via Council merger. The camp is sold and the problem repeats to the next camp. How does that benefit Scouts or the program? Another million dollar Council HQ or a STEM center? Maybe I missed something, I found no requirement that a scout or unit camp/hike at a council camp, any council camp. Not in advancement, JTE, OA membership ... I cringe when I read about museum and ballpark overnighters. So what if there were requirement(s) for a scout or unit to camp/hike from Sept to May at a Council camp and force Council to use those fees to maintain the camp within a facilities plan. The facilities plan would state whether the camp is rustic or resort, timber harvest limits, solar arrays, multi-use, sale of lots. My $0.02

@@The Latin Scot

I think a "wonderful relationship" largely depends on the personalities and the troop culture. That said your situation is the way Scouting should be.

Boy Scout Leaders to Discuss Offering More Opportunities for Girls Pete Williams, NBC Leaders of the Boy Scouts of America will take the first tentative steps Thursday toward considering whether to add more opportunities for girls in an organization that has been primarily for boys since it was founded 107 years ago, according to scouting officials. The subject will be discussed at a meeting of chapter representatives and other leaders at the organization's headquarters in Irving, Texas, the officials said. "It's a meeting on how to meet the needs of today's families, which include dual earners and single-parent households," said Effie Delimarkos, spokeswoman for the Boy Scouts of America. An official described the meeting as a chance to hear from the scouting community about whether to move ahead on creating more places for girls to participate. The subject of admitting girls to the BSA has been a hot topic on social media and websites devoted to scouting. "BSA has been awesome for my son. It would be awesome for my daughter, too," said one parent. But another said, "Co-ed does cut out the very heart of the program ... which is to help BOYS become better MEN." After decades of refusing to adjust its membership rules, change has been in the air for the Boy Scouts. The current president of the organization, AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, told its annual meeting last year that it must adapt in order to grow. "We have one purpose — develop leaders by teaching them the scout law. That's the end game. And I believe very strongly that we're going to have to change if we're going to succeed in that purpose," he said, in a 12-minute address that offered no specifics about how scouting should change. A request to AT&T for comment from Stephenson for this story was referred to Boy Scout headquarters. .... Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-scout-leaders-discuss-offering-more-opportunities-girls-n754541

Yes PPPPP. My approach is to teach this lesson to first-year scouts and watch the store. "Do you want that Arizona and Snickers bar or ammo at the Rifle Range?" Second-year and beyond, it is not much of a problem for them and no problem for me.

At our camp, scouts need money for program materials as the week progresses. Pizza sold at the camp store? Maybe a Food Court in camp next summer with a Pizza Hut, McDonalds,...

Pretty simple, Camp store is not selling candy before breakfast or lunch.

Always exceptions. Like when adults make poor choices and sell sweets to kids before dinner.

Maybe I have been lucky as I have experienced few cases of homesickness and they were all rain (monsoon) related.

I don't understand this fear of scouts being on their own at summer camp. What happen to the buddy system? The time I am most needed is 4:30-dinner when the camp store is open and selling ice cream and candy with no limits.

Let's steer the discussion in a different direction . How long do you think your troop adults (SM, ASM, parents) could separate from your scouts at summer camp without mayhem? Note, the camp staff is there. At what time(s) of the day at camp is a troop adult presence most needed?

Despite the circumstances, welcome to the forum. What help is your scout receiving? Help your scout first!

Odd question, if Scouts are not "enjoying" themselves, we address that problem. Some of the camp program, e.g. trek hikes, bike rides, are off reservation. If a patrol or the troop wants to take a trip off the reservation, we try to make it happen. We have done ice cream stand trips. All signed out, approved. But the fun for them is back at camp, the shingles I need for a new roof are at Home Depot. Luckily, our scouts are eager to prepare and go off on their own - more adventure that way. If they want a nanny, stay home.

And it can be done when the adults sign out of camp too, but then I was scout when once trained, we were trusted to patrol hike and camp without adults. A privilege earned.

It means I trust them and they had to earn that trust. Old school "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET 'EM LEAD!" - William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt Disclaimer: I don't play golf.

Sounds like a verse to add to Benny Bell's Shaving Cream* My DE told our sad pack Our recruitment flyers were a no I thought I would ask on scouter.com And found my DE full of Shaving cream, be nice and clean Shave every day and you'll always look keen * first heard and sung at my scout camp, back in the day.

http://nam.scouting.org/ 2017 National Annual Meeting, May 24–26, at the Marriott Orlando World Center in Orlando, Florida. For those attending, All Thursday and Friday Spark Sessions are designed in tracks around the BSA Game Plan (Membership, Finance, People, IT Infrastructure, Culture, and High Adventure Bases). The BSA Game Plan is a tactical course of action that has been developed to align and focus our efforts to support meaningful organization growth within the Boy Scouts of America. The Spark Sessions will be offered as panel discussions with diverse perspectives from subject matter experts. Each elective promises to be dynamic and dialogue driven. Facilitators have been listed to help you select the most valuable presentation for your Scouting position. The electives are designed to be “for the field†and “by the field†with great learning and discussion to be enjoyed by everyone. Here's the list: http://nam.scouting.org/Activities/Spark_Sessions.aspx

I see a Catholic youth (youth/family) program forming that does not involve a generic,outside youth program which may be doing less than hoped, from the Church viewpoint, to boost youth involvement in the Church. A hard fact, there are fewer Catholic children attending a Catholic school than there are Cub Scouts in the US. Our local elementary/secondary school closes this June. My younger son's weekend Confirmation classes resemble Scouting in terms of activities, service requirements, and time commitment (more reading/study). More and more time conflicts. Back in the day when more Catholics attended Catholic schools and Catechism classes, the Church taught religion and the troop taught scouting with the Scout Oath and Law as the bridge. http://www.ncea.org/NCEA/Proclaim/Catholic_School_Data/Catholic_School_Data.aspx My $0.01

Where is the Committee Chairman? Pack Treasurer? Where is the Charter Organization Representative? If none of those care, I doubt Council would. Start looking for another Pack for your son. My $0.02

The 106 year Hawaii Boy Scout tradition called Makahiki has been reinvented (by the Aloha Council) and is now named after one of Hawaii’s most famous Eagle Scouts, astronaut Ellison Onizuka. More than 7,300 people attended the Aloha Council’s Onizuka Day of Exploration at the Blaisdell that was sponsored by the Queen’s Health Systems. In addition to the traditional Makahiki events, it also had a host of STEM activities with booths and hands-on workshops focused on science, technology, engineering and math. http://khon2.com/2017/04/30/boy-scout-makahiki-tradition-reinvented-as-onizuka-day-of-exploration/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellison_Onizuka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STS-51-L

I googled Adult Pinewood Derby and had numerous finds. The event itself is usually official while some of the races may be less so. The World Famous Stumptown 40 - $30/car http://www.stumptown40.com/ Adult Pinewood Derby at Iowa Brewing Co in Cedar Rapids - $50 entry includes 2 free drinks http://storage.hawkeyebsa.org/event/docs/1664/2017_adult_pwd_fundraiser_rc1.pdf Woodcraft in Nashville is hosting an Adult Pinewood Derby on Fathers' Day which includes fathers vs sons races and a hardwood race. I wonder if entrants can cut and assemble car there? https://www.evensi.us/adult-pinewood-derby-woodcraft-of-nashville/208922638

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