red feather

Thanks for all the replies. So far the forum is split pretty much on the lines of the troop that I serve. After discussions we are leaning pretty heavy on the the real world adage...'the job ain't done until the paper work is done'. Kinda real world sort of thing. The young man is a Eagle with or without the patch. The patch is, imho, just a recognition of an organization that he has earned it. Not that he is one. thanks again, going to summer camp this Sunday with the troop. yahoo!! yis Red feather

When can an Eagle Patch be worn? Have a young scout that wishes to purchase an Eagle Patch to wear on uniform to camp. EBOR was last Sunday, camp starts this Sunday. Final paperwork submitted, no response from national yet. Can he purchase a patch and wear it? yis red feather

Been using an external frame for almost 20 years. Not sure you can find this one anymore, CampTrails Omega. At the time the only one I could find to fit me. 6'6". On second frame, (first passed on a 70' fall that I was not attached to. Snagging branches and such depends on how much bushwacking you intend to do. At my height it does not matter much. Personally I like the frame at times to back into the trail and let the frame and pack take the hits. Look around, surf the backpacking sites. I spent 2 hours in the store, different weights, different weight loads and configurations of those loads before I got the one I still wear. I am sure that there are newer and better out there but the beast that I carry now is an old friend and never let me down except when it tried to fly. yis red feather

Been awhile. Sorry for the soap box. The use of uniforms in scouting is a tool. Scouts do not care what the requirements are, scouters even less at the start. National puts out a guideline that is hopefully folowed. How the tool of uniform is used depends on each Troops situation, doesn't it? I have been active the troop that I serve for 18 plus years (Eagle'68, ASM 10 years or so, MC 3 years and SM 6 yrs, now ASM, working with a Scout led troop) and as an adult scouter the uniform that I wear plays in two ways. One of course is to try to impress the scouts in that if I can wear it so can they (matter of expectation thing), the other is to impress the parents of the scouts. IMHO when it comes down to gritty, gotta have the parents. When the Cubs cross over into Boy Scouts parents recognize the Webeloes Arrow of Light. They do not recognize the knot that adult leaders that have earned it as youth or any other of the stuff we put on uniforms. For that reason, I wear my AOL earned as a youth at the bottom of my left pocket, the new parents understand that and then know that I have been there, done that sort of thing. I also wear the camping coup/beads earned as a youth and as an adult, once again a been there done that sort of thing. Point is.. I wear my Eagle Dad pins (2) on my collar as I am very proud of bothof my sons earning of Eagle. I wear my Mentor pins on my left pocket cover as I am humbled that a young man thought I was worthy of them. If the wearing of these pins in a 'non-published' way helps keep youth and adults involved in scouting helps...then so be it. These recognitions and their placement while not 'sanctioned' have a use and are valuable tools used properly in the creation of a scout and a scouter. box broke yis red feather

Interesting how flags keep coming up over time. One of the issues that the troop that I serve is that we are receiving more nylon/poly flags over the last couple years. Seems that the timeline for 911 flags for retirement is getting close or here now. The troop that I serve retire flags every year at our yearly family overnight. No cutting of flags, grommets recovered and treated with respect, scouts and family members, if they wish, involved with the retirement. Quiet, respectful, honoring. The issue that we are having to deal with is the nylon/poly flags. When retired by burning they release chemicals that are not good. (sorry for the dumbing down... research it!) Not what we teach as LNT. Any ideas? yis red feather

Have done it both ways, last time 81 or so, fuzz stick would not take spark so I beat it with a rock, it got the idea, then held the spark/fire. Usually by the time you make a fuzz stick you could have used powers of observation and found enough good tinder and have your fire started. Besides I carry a good birds nest tender bag in my pack. Be Prepared. yis red feather

Kinda interesting, especially going back to the original with the RT eagles demo of the fuzz stick. Brought back memories of my youth. Was taught the fuzz stick back in the late 60s. One overnight all the scouts spent time carving/shaving a fuzz stick. If memory serves me right spent a half hour or more doing it. I remember being pretty proud of the hard work with a knife to create a fuzz stick. We tried to use our sticks to start a fire and the silly things would not take hold. One of the dads came over and took a look at the fuzz sticks and told us that we had done a good job of making them. He then took a rock and beat the daylights out of them, gave them back and told us to try it again. You know what? The fuzz stick worked!! Been making them with a rock ever since. (when I make them, last one 1981 or so) yis red feather

This is something I should know. But a combination of a senior moment(s) and being on the road without my books I have a question. What is the daily limit for driving? 600 miles? 10 hours? or a combination? yis red feather

I apologize for not providing a link to news articles concerning this, but you can Google Joplin boyscouts to access the information available. Over 1000 scouts and scouters from around the country converged on Joplin MO this weekend to help in the recovery. I have no first hand knowledge of what the other groups did, but the group of 100 plus scouts and scouters that I was honored to work with did clean up saturday in the debris field at the destroyed Irving Elementary School within sight of the destroyed St.Johns Hospital. Removing and sorting debris from around the building to facilitate access to crews that will remove the structure. This was done over a 6 hour period starting at 90 plus degess at 10am and climbed to over 100 degree temperatures and was done in the truest scouting spirit. Safety areas were designated, as the building is still falling down, a first aid area, and a rehydration area were set up. No scouts went into the structure. Volunteers were paired up to monitor each other and water breaks were set every 45 minutes and then 30 minutes as temperatures climbed. This duty was performed at a level that is in the hightest scout ideals. A scout is Helpful. This was all done in over 100 degree temperatures. Only three scouts were treated onsite for heat related conditions. All are fine due to the planning and training of scouters at the site. One scout was transported to a local hospital for x-rays after dropping a concret block on his foot. This happened in the first 15 minutes and was a lesson learned by all. I have no information on his status. Of the 1000 plus there were cubscouts, boyscouts, venture crews and scouters. All working together in the highest tradition of scouting. I was able to witness local residents thanking the scouts for their efforts and one family traveling through to view the debris field seeing the scouts working went to a local store and purchase cold watermelons, slice them, and bring them to the scouts working in the heat. Major kudos go to the Joplin area scout council for all they did to organize this project and the care that they took to provide all scouts and scouters the opportunity to provide this service, keep us safe and taken care of. Feeding all volunteers at the Frank Childress Camp Site free of charge, providing meals, ice and water at the work sites, and providing a program for the scouts and scouters at the campsite. Words are not enough to describe what we witnessed there in the debris field even three months or so after the tornado. I think the best lesson we learned came from one of our youngest scouts during the Thorns and Roses the troop that I serve performed this morning. Thorns were all the heat that was endured. Until this one young first year scout said his thorn was seeing the damage and destuction that the people who lived and died in the path of tornado and what the people in Joplin were enduring. Really put the temperature that we experienced yesterday into perspective. humbling, both the experience and young scouts perspective. yis red feather

There are ticket punch Eagles. There are Eagles that soar and Eagles that flap. There are Eagles who just don't get it. That is life. That said, it is not the rank of Eagle that is important but what the scout was exposed to in the earning of the rank. Many of these exposures may not come to fruition for a number of years if at all. Even those who soar as young Eagles will make choices that are not 'up to the standard' and some who flap will live 'up to the standard' it is what they have been taught as scouts that will be the determining factor in how they respond to life. Took me a number of decisions to 'get it'. But the base was always there. As has been stated it is the culture of the troop that is what is important. If the culture is based on the Scout Law and Oath and that the scout is expected to, in part, use to Oath and Law to make their decisions on what life brings to them, then they have a platform to work with. Many young men do not realize what they have learned as scouts until time has passed and the leasons have a meaning and all we as scouters can hope for is at some point the lessons take hold. If the scout has fulfilled the requirements and earned his Eagle then it is the responsibility of the scouters to haved provided the positive base required for the young Eagle to be able to live up to the rank. yis red feather

Might consider adding a line: Scouts, get ready for a really fun adventure!!! yis red feather

Thanks Info, that is what I remembered but could not find. KC9, the PLC has established preliminary guidelines and wished to look at what other units had developed. They feel that they do not have enough knowledge/experience to do an E chit program from scratch and requested that I try to find programs either in use or in development as I spend time in various forums. This has been in the works for almost 4 months and they have worked pretty hard and have had discussions at every PLC meeting for 4 months and has gathered input from each patrol. yis red feather

The PLC is looking for a method of instruction to scouts in the troop as to the proper usage of electronic devices in the scouting venue. Not my words but the SPL and the PLC. Not sure what you mean by "in the long run or something else." They are looking for input into how to layout a structured program that will allow the proper use of electronics in scouting. By asking for input from this forum it should/may give the SPL information from outside of the troop to create the method that will be accepted by the scouts. This is their gig, they want to set the standard, not have it set by adults. I support them in this. It is their world of comm, and they are looking for input. They are looking for an established E-Chip program to consider. yis red feather

Got a call from the SPL requesting that I ask this forum if any troop has developed an E-Chit(p) (Electronic communication and use) program to allow the troop to establish guidlines on proper use of electronics. He is working up a program to teach proper use of electronics in the scouting venue and is looking for ideas and provide a method similar to Totin Chip to monitor it. thanks in advance yis red feather

In light of the destruction in Joplin, the troop that I serve contacted the Joplin Council office. The scouting response to help in Joplin has caused the council to try to put together a "mini-jamboree" type of weekend set up. Please read the following from the Ozark Trails Council that we recieved in response of our request to travel to Joplin as a troop and assist in the clean up. For what it is worth, idea came from the PLC. Begin: Joplin Scout Relief Update - June 7, 2011 The Ozark Trails Council sincerely thanks you and your scouts for their offer of support for those affected by the tornado in Joplin, Missouri last month. Please feel free to share this information with others in your units or council. Ozark Trails Council is working with city officials now to plan a coordinated scout project to help with rebuilding efforts. 2 groups we are specifically talking about supporting are the city parks department which lost some of its parks and the school system which lost 3 of its facilities. The tentative weekend being looked at is August 5-7, 2011 (not confirmed with local officials yet) We need to get an estimate on the number interested in helping with this type of weekend to plan the project. Please email joplinrelief@ozarktrailsbsa.org if your scout group would plan to attend and the number estimated. All groups would be housed at our Childress Scout Camp for the weekend and being shuttled into the work areas. Please bring your own tents, sleeping bags, and other camping gear. All food will be provided. Currently identified are over 30 scout families that have lost everything and another 8 units that lost their meeting place and equipment. We have set up a Joplin Tornado Scout Fund where donations can be sent. These funds will be used 100% in supporting our local scouts with uniforms, camping equipment, pinewood derby tracks, and other scouting items lost. You can send your donations to: Joplin Tornado Scout Fund 1616 S Eastgate Ave Springfield, MO 65809 Finally, if your group would like to assist with the cleanup efforts prior to the coordinated plan above, you can visit www.joplinmo.org/tornadoinfo.cfm to sign up to help (for the coordinated plan we will have separate signup forms once final arrangements are made). We have space at Childress Scout Camp for groups to stay while volunteering, just send a notice to joplinrelief@ozarktrailsbsa.org and let us know arrival and departure dates along with the number attending. Please bring your own tents, sleeping bags, and other camping gear. There are a few rules to know if you plan to assist prior to the coordinated plan: no one under 12 can be in the debris field, all volunteers must sign a liability waiver and 12-17 year olds must have the waiver signed by guardian. www.stl.unitedway.org/uploadedfiles/Joplin_Volunteer_Release_Form.pdf The generosity of Scouts just like you has been overwhelming and is making huge strides in returning the Joplin Scouts to normalcy. On behalf of the Ozark Trails Council, we thank you. end of message I am sure that any contributions will be appreciated. yis red feather