Reasonable Rascal

Thanks for the advice guys. ES2010 yours was particularly helpful. I am back from the campout now and the matter is done, Here is what happened: The PL flaked the campout, as well as the last 2 week's meetings. Sick one week and school science fair the next. The APL was told he was in charge, a position he is not familiar with yet. The SPL brought his own food (MREs) and made a minor production of them. Needless to say they automatically outshine whatever the patrol is cooking because they are "awesome." Besides cooking (new, untried menu items) the boys worked on Firem'n Chit for the newest kid and his older brother (who is pretty new as far as camping himself). The SPL decided he was going to teach Toten Chip and proceeded to call the boys over to his demo area and away from the other activities. The disruption was actually minimal and didn't upset the overall schedule so I let it slide and just observed. On the other hand we have an Instructor whose skill areas are Toten Chip and knots, but he was asked for this campout, only the Cooking Instructor. See following.... All in all it went better than I expected but it still rankles me a bit that he essentially invited himself. He is big on being seen as the 'expert' on skills, when in truth he could use some review and practice himself. I have been trying for the better part of a year now to differentiate between troop and patrol events, with the differences in leadership, planning, etc. The SPL's father ended up staying home because we had another dad along after all - one of those 'I'll let you know tomorrow' kind of things that left us hanging until literally a couple of hours before departure. The boys did have a good time, but Scoutmaster discovered that a brand-new tent (2 nights use by the SM for Wood Badge back in Oct. and only 1 night of use by the troop in Dec.) had been put away wet the last time it was used and as a result had mildewed badly. The SPL was told it would be brought up at the next meeting. So far he has shrugged it off. RR

My understanding of the patrol method is that the PL is the leader for patrol events, and the SPL coordinates and directs the troop as a whole. I was told by one of the boys that the SPL already has plans to teach some skills at this event. The problem is the patrol had decided for themselves when they planned this what the focus was to be, and it wasn't what the SPL decided *he* was going to do. I have no problem with the SPL teaching the PL's the methods of office, or evaluating them, etc. I *do* have a problem with an SPL who decides he doesn't have to listen to adults, or take direction from same, or fails for literally months now to organize a junior leader orientation/training day. After all that he decides he needs to attend a strictly patrol event and apparently (per what he told at least one patrol member) take over the activities during the event in contrast to what they have planned. Where is the dividing line between the patrol and the troop? I thought one was a sub-unit with its own leaders, who meshed with the larger unit (troop) for common activities and gain while retaining its own identity and agenda as befit the needs/wants of its members. RR

I learned tonight that our SPL managed to wrangle an 'invite' to a patrol campout this week-end. I was not present when it occurred and the PL in fact had a science fair tonight so he wasn't there. I believe what *might* have happened is he talked the APL into inviting him as the parents involved are friends. I learned of this when the SPL's dad informed me he was available to drive because his son had been invited to go. While I honestly could have used another vehicle to haul the gear I already had another adult meeting us at the camping site so that wasn't an issue. We would just have had to ask someone to make 2 60-mile round trips for the gear (30 miles each way). I would like the opinions of the more learned Patrol Method members here as to the appropriateness of this apparent self-invite. I have been striving to separate Patrol from Troop activities but the SPL has it in his head that his way is always the right way and he doesn't need to listen to adult leaders, etc. RR

My troop has visited there a couple of times - we are about 4 hours away. As far as camping look up the TenX Forest Service campground, just a few miles south of the park itself. Much cheaper than actually camping in the park, not as crowded, very comfortable area. Within the park itself you will find shuttle buses that take you between different points. Break your troop into small groups because there is no way you can get a dozen or more people in one group on a bus due to the heavy use of same. Take your own food and picnic because the prices in the park are outrageous even for water. There is a grocery but prices are up there (in the Village). The Imax theater complex in the town just south of the park has some very neat displays that are free to walk through, related to the park and Major John Wesley Powell's river run back when. The exhibit includes a recreated model of the boats his group used. If anyone in your group has a Golden Age passport then everyone *in their vehicle* can pass free of charge. Check the park's website for fees and free days (there are a couple each year). There is no way to see the park in one day, and we are talking the South Rim only here. As far as camping in the valley itself it is only by hiking down or taking a helicopter that you can access it, and it considered a high adventure trip by BSA with all the attendant physical requirements. VERY strenuous hike and people do fall (fatally). The Planes of Fame Museum in Valle (down the highway an hour south from the canyon) will give Scout groups a discount if they make advance registrations. Very worthwhile. Warbirds, a Ford Trimotor that once flew Canyon tours (I've seen that plane in flight once, awesome experience), experimentals, oddities and more. RR

I should have updated my post, especially because I was in error. It was just over a month from the time I actually sent in the order (oops) until they arrived. We pinned them on the boys last Thursday. RR

From a long-time Paramedic: you will know very quickly whether direct pressure is going to work or not. Very quickly. Even more to the point if a limb is semi- or completely amputated a tourniquet is ALWAYS appropriate. For a stab would you should have time to figure it out, or note that the wound is in a location for which a tourniquet is totally impractical (torso, etc). I recall a situation in the mid-80's that involved a broken beer bottle applied to the upper arm (family dispute). Brachial artery et al severed and blood literally puddling in the guys lap. Tourniquet applied as a first line measure. He lived and the arm was saved after some fancy micro-surgery to rejoin the artery. Back about "72 a kid in my troop saved his younger brother after the boy severed his ulner artery (forearm) after he ran it through a glass storm door. The Dr. certified that the kid's life would indeed have been lost if the proper intervention was not applied (belt and stick), and the Scout received a Certificate of Merit in front of the entire Jr. HS assembly. The Dr. was a surgeon and did the repair work - he knew his stuff. I worked with him for 3 years later on after I graduated and started my EMS career. 5 years later almost to the day he 9the hero Scout) did the same thing again at the beginning of his freshman year at UNI. Virtually identical scenario and injury and treatment. But by then no longer a registered Scout so there was no second recognition. Basically a 13 y.o. was able to properly identify the need. It is not difficult to teach them how to properly recognize when it is needed. RR

Kudu, while normally I take in with interest your POV you are trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear with this one. RR

"We have a lone scout that left our troop. If you remember the mom who was going to get her eagle and the boy hates the outdoors, went to resident camp and mom and dad came and picked him up and they stayed at a motel instead of at camp. DE called SM and asked what the deal was.....Mom is going to get her eagle.....He is now a lone scout....In a year he made star and will be an eagle at 15....... " Would someone mind explaining to me how this lad can possibly earn his Camping MB? last I knew it was a requirement for Eagle. RR

Two camps within 2 hours if you really stretch that two hours. The farthest one is past Las Vegas to the west, the closest one the better part of an hour away and only accessible on a seasonal basis as the road is not maintained per se and certainly isn't plowed come winter. We use the closer camp for a unit outing once a year, otherwise summer camp is always a 5+ hour drive. RR

75 years with the same unit? Outstanding! RR

Have a Scouter with my Troop who now is working on his 62nd year. Yes, that is sixty-two. I don't think he's hit 75 years of age yet. He missed a few years while he was in the service, otherwise ever since he was a kid he's been in. National had to verify his records to get him a 60 year pin. Literally took months from the time we submitted to Council before they got word back that he had been verified. RR

Try Lowes for 2' dia. tree stakes, 6 feet long and pointed on one end. I had the boys sand them down because they tend to shed splinters otherwise, but they are rough enough to hold the rope and to allow semi-scale model towers and such. They learn lashing basics on the 6' models and then can move up from there. RR

It happens and has been happening for decades. Back around "91 I was named SM for a troop that was carried on the books but which hadn't been active for several years. Lo and behold though it had youth "members" for whom in every instance their mailing address was 'General Delivery.' It was a small town but not THAT small. We did build the troop up for a couple of years but the actions of an adult affiliated with the troop (using the troop treasury to enhance their lifestyle a bit vis' a vis postage and mileage reimbursements that the DE purportedly said were reasonable, allowable and customary for a Unit Commissioner) caused me to walk away and form another troop later. The DE knew exactly what was going on and eventually got his promotion and transfer to a council in the Chicago area, which was all he was after, numbers that would justify his promotion. RR

"At the Jamboree in 73? Moraine state park the big nites entertainment was Danny Thomas!" Actually it was Bob Hope. Danny Thomas was at Jamboree East in Pennsylvania. I was at Jamboree West. :-) RR

Twocubdad is correct, drowning resuscitation was poorly understood until the 60's. I was taught the Sylvester method when I first joined Boy Scouts (no first aid training in Cubs). From Wikipedia: In the 19th century, Doctor H. R. Silvester described a method (The Silvester Method) of artificial respiration in which the patient is laid on their back, and their arms are raised above their head to aid inhalation and then pressed against their chest to aid exhalation.[69] The procedure is repeated sixteen times per minute. This type of artificial respiration is occasionally seen in films made in the early part of the 20th century. A second technique, called the Holger Neilson technique, described in the first edition of the Boy Scout Handbook in the United States in 1911, described a form of artificial respiration where the person was laid on their front, with their head to the side, resting on the palms of both hands. Upward pressure applied at the patients elbows raised the upper body while pressure on their back forced air into the lungs, essentially the Silvester Method with the patient flipped over. This form is seen well into the 1950s (it is used in an episode of Lassie during the Jeff Miller era), and was often used, sometimes for comedic effect, in theatrical cartoons of the time (see Tom and Jerry's "The Cat and the Mermouse"). This method would continue to be shown, for historical purposes, side-by-side with modern CPR in the Boy Scout Handbook until its ninth edition in 1979. The technique was later banned from first-aid manuals in the U.K. ------------------------------ It sounds like from the description in the article that the boys were attempting the Holger Nielson Method, which as noted was illustrated in the 1911 Handbook as was current at the time the rescue took place. RR (This message has been edited by Reasonable Rascal)

I've been encouraging my patrols to plan individual events but so far have only succeeded in getting the New Scout patrol (very relative term there) to do so once last Oct. We did have 5 adults including a mom whose son was crossing over that week-end (she's also the Troop CC). The boys hiked up while 3 of the adults drove the gear up. We did tent and cook separately though it wasn't Kudu's 300 feet apart; that's because the boys chose their campsite without regard to the distance but more for the terrain. The Webelo stayed with mom since he didn't officially join the troop until the next day. Now, even though we had 2 adults with the boys on the hike/climb up the boys lead it, the adults just followed along and thus trekked the extra distance when the PL got disoriented as darkness fell and took the wrong path for a distance before retracing his steps. So, well after dark before the boys got to eat but it was perhaps the most successful campout I have ever had with this troop in 6 years. No older boys trying to ditch the younger guys, the PL did what he was supposed to, and the boys excelled at utensil-less cooking (something their older brethren have even yet to do). RR

I am likewise interested (hint, hint). I'm a graduate of the old JLITC program at Philmont's Rayado, circa 1971. RR

A very merry and blessed Christmas to all and best wishes for a wonderful New Year. RR

Just an update to this thread: our troop has been waiting for some 2 months now to receive our order, and we have not heard a peep. One wonders if they have gone back into their previous mode. RR

Eamonn, I can't say how much I envy - yes, that is the correct word: envy - you the joy of still hearing from former Scouts years later. I have had only one boy other than my son ever thank me, and I always thought that I didn't accomplish that much with that troop at that time (90's, my first troop as SM back in Iowa). Our troop's "relic" just left, a 60+ year Scouting veteran. He's going to run this week's meeting while Mrs. Scoutmaster and I go visit my former Scoutmaster (my Dad) and my First Aid MB counselor (Mom, an RN back when) for a couple of days. They are semi-snowbirds, only coming to AZ for a few weeks at both ends of the winter season but returning to Iowa for the worst of it. "Doc", as our relic likes to be called (former Navy Corpsman, assigned to the Marines) doesn't camp with us but he has hiked a time or two and walks parades with us, is our Advancement Chair and counsels several MB's, and attends almost every weekly meeting without fail, and participates in our fundraising efforts. My first SM passed away this fall, without my ever getting a chance to tell him thanks for all he did. Though I left his troop when another was founded it remains the only active troop in that town of the 4 that existed when I was a youth. He must have done something right over the years. They've been around for well over 60 years now. I don't know about the rest of the folks here but the experiences I had as a youth have enriched my life and enhanced my values, and they continue to do so as I serve with my present troop as SM. Whatever your present state I would suggest that if possible you try to make it a full 50 years. Doing so can be an inspiration to those youth you serve now, and to those other adults who may be inclined to just put in their time and fade away when their own sons age out. RR

There are the International Scouting Museum and the Atomic Testing Museum, both in Vegas. http://www.worldscoutingmuseum.org/ http://www.atomictestingmuseum.org/index.asp Both should interest Scouts and parents alike. RR

Had a boy last year that the committee suspended for a month because of ongoing behavior issues that included bloodying a nose and other physical altercations. He also never returned, and our retention of new Scouts has never been higher. One boy - especially when he is older (14) can have either a very detrimental or positive effect on the troop as a whole. The boy had been Green Barred twice before it got to that point. His suspension was not a snap decision. We are talking well over a year of attempts to salvage him. He has since become acquainted with the juvenile justice system. RR

I used Scoutlander to build ours, and have had no problem whatsoever with people finding it. Since creating it back in February this year we have had over 1,300 unique hits. I average about 2 email inquiries per month from parents seeking a home for their boys. Usually - not always - they are Cub age, but I also hand out business cards with the web site addy and direct people there for recruiting purposes. It works. I gave one out on Saturday to a mom, she looked over the site with her son, they came the following Thursday, and returned with a completed app, etc on Friday. We publish the web address on flyers placed in the church where we meet and at local schools. I can attribute 5 registrations to the site since we have had it up and communication has greatly improved even though we have several families without web access at home. But they can receive the regular email updates (automatic) on their smart phones. I am not web design-literate and I was able to figure out the set up over a few hours only. Since then it had been a matter of updating and adding features as the need arises. http://troop56bhc.ScoutLander.com BTW, I just tried "Troop 56 Bullhead" as a search title on Google and found several links to our site, though they show up under other troop or pack numerals. RR

Currently sitting in the Las Vegas Area Council but I hale from Mid-America originally. I was a youth there back in the day, served as Scoutmaster of a couple small troops in the extreme border area of Mid-Am and later relocated to the Mid-Iowa Council before coming here. RR

As someone who was a Scout when the BSA introduced the collar-less uniform shirt in the "70's I have to say I much prefer the current collared style. RR