beaverlbc

ScoutNut, I was afraid I had not made my comments clear. Let me try again. My original statement was "The Wolf Elective saying to earn one of the shooting BL has never been an issue because we have rarely had a Tiger attend DC. They mostly join in the fall so attend their first DC as a Wolf." "I am not sure I understand. A Tiger can not earn a Wolf Elective. It does not matter if he attends Day Camp or not. A boy must be a registered Wolf Cub Scout to earn a Wolf Elective. A Tiger who joins in May/June after graduating from kindergarten, can attend Day Camp that first summer as a Tiger. He can NOT get credit for any Wolf Electives during camp however. Tiger Electives - Yes, Wolf Electives - No." I was saying that my Pack rarely has any Tigers in June, so we don't send any Tigers to DC. Therefore there has never been an issue about Wolves 'having to receive a 2nd BL" because the Elective said he earned it. The only time I have known of flack about not receiving duplicate BLs is after parents find out that Webelos do receive a 2nd BL (our Pack policy because it was part of a requirement). I was not saying that Tigers could earn Wolf Electives. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

"Why is a Pack giving the Boy Scout Handbook and red epilets. These should be coming from the troop." "Why? Where is this written?" You are right. It is not written anywhere. I appologize. That is just what most of the units in my area(s) over the years has done. I had never heard of a Pack giving those items. "Also, any boy that has earned their AOL, part of the requirements for earning it is transfering to a troop." "No, it is not. The requirement states to visit a Troop you might like to join and to have a conference with the Scoutmaster. That's it. Nothing about actually joining a Troop." You are right again. I guess I need to "eat my beaver tail." I am thinking of old requirements that said you had to fill out the application and show it to your DL. Even that requirement didn'say you had to join, but it did give a stronger implication that the boy would transfer to a troop.

I have been looking for Belt Loops and Pins as Clip Art. The only thing I have been able to find is an old list--before the Academic program began. when there were only a limited number of sports. Does a site exist where I can find all (or even almost all of the BL/Pins as clip art? Can anyone direct me to such a site?

Each Pack is allowed to set their own guidelines on many aspects of the program, including the BL/Pin program. I believe that is so each unit can do what works for their area and situation. Many low income areas can not afford to buy the same belt loops over and over. However, I don't think you are allowed to prevent a boy from earning a BL only once. You can set guidelines on how often a BL will be awarded. In our pack, this is part of the information given to parents when their son joins. We do have to frequently remind them of this, because they forget. But it is in writing, so they can't say they weren't given the information. We award a BL once unless he is earning it again as a Webelos. Because I feel that if something was repeated because it was required for the Activity Pin, the boy should get the recognition. This is my personal opinion and no Committee Member has objected to the policy. We do not let them wear extra BLs that don't fit on his belt around his waist. He has to decide which he will wear and which he will keep at home. The Wolf Elective saying to earn one of the shooting BL has never been an issue because we have rarely had a Tiger attend DC. They mostly join in the fall so attend their first DC as a Wolf. SSScout said that their boys go to DC early each day to earn the Archery Pin. That surprised me. I am courious as to why since at our DC we have(not every year, but some) had the boys earn the Archery Pin during regular DC hours. They get to shoot every day--both Archery and BB Guns. Maybe at SSScout's DC there are too many kids to shoot daily. I know my son never got to do that at DC.

SctDad said "Don't forget, there are other award that one can work for other than just the BL's. Outdoor activity, crime prevention, and things like that. Something that I have been working on with the summer months coming up soon, the LNT program. I am try ing to get the boys (Mostly Tigers and 1 Wolf) to understand the LNT and how we should treat the outdoors." Yes, we need to remember all the additional extras that all ages of CS can earn. Too many get ignored.

LisaBob said "In our pack the tradition was to acknowledge that the boy had re-earned a beltloop as part of earning his webelos pins, but we did not pay for the duplicate beltloop. Instead we used the small (and much cheaper) "rocker" segments that they could put on the red vests. This seemed to work well for all involved." This is a super idea--if you are in a Council that uses rockers for activities and if they make them available for the Sports and Academic program. Unfortunately, not all councils use this program. My courrent council does not. My previous council did but not for the Academic/Sports program which was a lot younger at that time.

Goldwinger, You learn lots from the BL. Because of growth and maturity each year, even in the sports, a boy will improve his game. Don't forget the Academic BLs. There is going to be a lot more learning going on as a Webelos then the boy got from doing a BL as a Wolf.

I think the point that was made about a CM/CC being a husband/wife team is valid. Often, BUT NOT ALWAYS, having a husband/wife team in these positions can cause problems. I believe the story given by Ekmiranda as he has shared it. It is simply good practice to avoid the husband/wife team if possible. It can start too many tongues to wagging. My husband and I have been such a team in a Pack and it was fine. However, when we became involved with our current Pack and Troop, the husband/wife team was a major problem and prevented the units from growing. Finally, the Charter Rep had to remove the husband from the SM position for allowing inappropriate behavior and they both left.

The only thing I have combined with another pack on has been PWD because we have a track and they did not. It is easier when both packs are small, to have them come race with you then set up the track twice. I think doing things with another small pack would be a good idea and build relationships. This could benefit small packs, especially those that do not have a troop affiliated with it. And it would help your affiliated troops growth. However, I have invited other Webelos Dens (from other packs) to join my Webelos for activities. I like to do this with packs that have only a few Webelos because it is sometimes harder for them to complete certain requirements. But I also doso because it is more FUN to do activities with a group. I have had boys join my den to do Scientist (I do it all in a 1 day workshop) and Aquanuat (it's more fun with a group). I have never had any takers on the Webelos Only Campouts yet and had not considered the insurance issue. From now on, I will make sure the invited pack has insurance and will include them on the trip permit. See, even us experienced Scouters can learn from this forum.

This is absolutely wrong. While there are allowances made for disabled boys, even they are not allowed to just be given an award. Even they must do their best. When my disabled son was in Scouting, I spent a lot of time understanding the BSA Policies and recommendations for disabled Scouts. I also took the Disabilities Seminar at Philmont Training Center and served on a council level "disabilities committee." Where is the CC in this. Maybe that person can talk to the CM. If the CM won't listen to someone in the Pack. Get your Unit Commissioner involved. This is a District position so if you don't have one, talk to your DE. That person is trained to help units that are having problems. Talk to your District Training Chair. They may have ideas on how to convince the CM to get trained.

I agree with msnowman. The most important patch is the one that says a person is trained for his position and he wants to be the best he can be as a CM. The "knots" will come with time. The Lodge Patch shows the indeividual is in OA. There are requirements to join OA. These include a certain number of nights camping as a Scout/er; it also includes at least 1 week of summer camp with a troop. Like I said, knots and awards will be earned as he is doing his job as a CM and provideing a quality program for his Scouts.

Charging an annual fee would not work in our area. We have a lot of single parent families and low income families. So if you are going to try doing this type thing, make sure the area you draw your boys from is not low income. We have trouble just getting everyone to pay monthly dues. I sure wish we could collect all our money from popcorn. This year we did really well on popcorn and then have over $800 still owed the pack. And popcorn sales ended in Nov! We also have a number of families that just will not participate in sales.

I saw several very interesting ideas that I have noted. My husband is a flintknapper so he makes his own arrows (placed on a plaque with name & date AOL earned)to give to those earning that award. Each plaque also has a larger point (more like spear size). The boys love them and yes the real thing is much nicer than plastic arrow points--for those who have access. As I was reading through these ideas, I realized there is really two points being discussed here. What to give to those earning their AOL and what to give those boys crossing over. You can earn your AOL before the crossover month. I did see a few things that concerned me as I read these messages. Why is a Pack giving the Boy Scout Handbook and red epilets. These should be coming from the troop. Boys can not "crossover" unless they are going into a troop. Also, any boy that has earned their AOL, part of the requirements for earning it is transfering to a troop. So I did not understand a comment made by one SM that said his troop quit giving handbooks to those crossing over because so many never showed up. He said they waited until the boys registered in the fall. This is a concern because why are there not activities for the new Boy Scouts to participate over the summer? Why are they waiting to register in the fall? One leader shared how his Webelos built their own Arrow and plaque. What about the boy that doesn't complete his AOL? What does he do with his? He made it but didn't earn it.

Lisabob, I asked the same question when I read Scottteng's comments. You are a Webelos or a Boy Scout. You can not visit an event as a Webelos and earn Merit Badges. You can't attend an event as a Boy Scout and earn Arrow of Light requirements. You are one or the other. Another suggestion I have concerning "winter camping" in the deep south. Another hint for combating the cold is unknown to many Southerners. Put some of those extra blankets "under" the sleeping bag and body. Or do what those in the cold country do (even during the summer)--use a sleeping pad. THis can be bought at any Walmart or other sporting goods store--even in FL. I am a transplant from the north.

pack212scouter, I agree with you 100 percent and I tried to state that. When a child has completed a grade he is now in the next grade up. However, there are some packs that will argue that because they do not crossover boys at end of school year, the boy is not the next CS rank until the fall when their unit crosses them over. The thing to do is get Disrict help in getting the leadership of said unit to change their thinking. I also agree that boys that cross over to a troop as a group do much better then those that crossover on their own. It is not just when the troop want the boy to cross over. If that boy wants to do the work to earn his AOL, he needs the opportunity to do so. So, even if a troop wants boys to cross in March and you have 5th graders that start in the fall, he may need until the end of school. He deserves that chance.