RANBOW

Thats an awsome video. :-)

While continuing to read through daily.(with some of these posts.) It tends to bother me that a group of example setters for our youth can get so upset over such a thing as a difference in religious belief. This to me, seems to go against all Scout code of conduct and the very things we strive to teach our youth. A few statements being made have been outright demeaning, belittling, discriminatory, name calling attacks. This is not a healthy way of conducting oneself in an intellectual discussion. I think by now OGE has his answer for, Deacon Lance has posted a link to the most recent information. If someone were to ask. Who thinks this has become out of line and/or out of control just for the sake of argument or personal belief without tolerance for others raise your hand? I WOULD BE TOUCHING THE CEILING.

Ok, Lets take a deep breath and take off the sign around our neck that says "I'm so upset I am talking crazy talk". THE BAD NEWS is that unfortunately, I have to agree (and you will too once calm) with all the other posts that imply, that it is in NO way a leaders fault. I also think that this should be a good lesson for your son. As well as an experience in his personal growth. This will be determined on what kind of a parent you choose to be and how you handle it. THE GOOD NEWS is you dont necessarily have to get a new set of poles directly from Kelty which could be a headache and or pricey. You can get tent pole repair/replacement kits from many sources. Campmor dot com, polesforyou dot com, even walmart carries these kits. I have never gone through an oem for this so, you will have to compare prices or put your son on a mission. Use your favorite search engine to provide yourself with a party full of options. See you on the trail, ----RANBOW----

OK, so lets go cruise the autobahn after the pope-mobile is repaired and we can all get an ice cream cone. Sound good to anyone? You can have extra sprinkles. Some latin is going to be brought back into a more frequent or common usage in the church instead of, used just on special occasions or by the choir. So what? Those attending mass who are adults and proficient in their faith understand its meaning. Those who are not adults are still learning their faith and will appreciate it for what it is when they do mature. Latin is a dead language but, many educated people still understand and use it. All doctors, pharmacists and clergy use it on a daily basis and are required to know and understand it. Latin doesnt seem to be that dead in here right now for, there is certainly no lack of intelligent and or educated people using this thread and throwing up a few latin statements to boot. I in fact use latin on a daily basis for, many of my passwords are a combination of latin and numbers. Why? I really dont know. I guess because its no more silly and feels safer to me than, a pet or childs name in combination with someone elses birthday or an anniversary. Or, maybe its just because I can. Non of this really makes much difference. Its going to happen and there are those who wont like it, those who dont understand it and those who it wont matter to. I personally like it and enjoy the singing of agnus dei (the lamb of god). Positus. Si agendum est, age cum splendore. ----RANBOW----

Lets not misconstrue the point here. No one is saying the app. should be graded or perfect. its not supposed to be. The point is. The scout should be made aware and encouraged to put forth his best effort. Thats all.

I believe the reference Mr. Boyce is making, is to the fact that many of the languages spoken throughout the world today are derived from the ancient languages. IE: latin. This includes the one you are speaking now. For example: the word agriculture comes from the root word agricula which is latin for farmer. The word undulate comes from the root word unda which is latin for wave and so on. Another good example is the root word amo. amore in italian, amour in french, amo in spanish and in english we can arrive at love. This in english is very different but, from the root word amo meaning love we get our english word "amorous". I hope this was helpful. See you on the trail, ----RANBOW----

@ Evmori. --- Yes , Seriously. As I stated. It was the first thing that popped into my mind. An eagle should always be able to take pride in his accomplishment. Today and tomorrow. As an adult if you go back and look over your original paperwork, you will find it to appear written in a childish manner. However, if you look at it as an adult and see that it is written with huge errors and misspellings,. you may wonder how they let you through or even consider if you were pushed through the system. Much like many are pushed through the school systems and finish unable to read very well. Would you want to pull out your original paperwork later in life and then feel like hiding it from everyone else for the rest of your days out of embarrassment? There is a reason why, not every scout becomes an eagle. I asked a leader to proof read my app. almost thirty years ago. It just made common sense. Today I can pull out my original app. and say to myself "this is actually well written for my age at the time". I wasnt trying to tell thomas what to do but, merely stating my thoughts while providing a different view for thought provocation. Should it be brought to the scouts attention? I think so. Even though I didnt say it in such a way in my first post. Should it be nit picked? Probably not but, he should be reminded to continue to put his best foot forward. Thats why we are there for them. Please pardon me for having an opinion and attempting to provide some food for thought. At the same time, let it be known that your sarcastic bon mot was not appreciated. There is already enough of that in these forums. People come here to seek assistance, provide opinions, and share experience. They / we can do without this type of arrogance. ----RANBOW----

The first thing that comes to my mind is. What is he or his wife going to think about such errors when he pulls it out of a file in 20 or more years and they read it over? Will he be as proud to be an eagle with these errors on his original paperwork? Do you think he will wonder why he was allowed through with errors like this? Will his wife still be as impressed with his boyhood accomplishment? These are just a few thoughts. Obviously these are not simple errors or you would not be asking this question. See you on the trail, ----RANBOW----

And dont forget to tell them about coring out the apples and adding m&m's to them. that the only way to really do a baked apple on a campout. :-)

Dont you just love scouting and the scouter forums? where else could you find a group of people that can use words like... vulgate, vernacular, rubrical, and laity. Let alone spout a little latin if required. Its actually refreshing to have a discussion with someone and not be driven insane by those who say things like supos-uh-blee instead of supposedly. See you on the trail, ----RANBOW----

Beavah. You made me spit out my tea with the "Expelliaramus!" quote. Shame on you. Just so you are not confused, It is more about the changing of some of the vernacular and sticking to tradition than it is about the adding of latin. A good bit of the latin is already in use from time to time. it will just be used a little more on a regular basis. It isnt about the latin per say either its more of the meaning of the latin and its tradition. As a foot note. If you were a catholic child would the latin not cause you to be inquisitive as to its meaning. Thus drawing you to learn more about your faith and broaden your intellect? Just a thought.... I know as a child the latin impressed me and I inquired as to its meanings when old enough and followed up later in school by taking a couple years of it. P.S. after Vat 2. many complained that too much tradition had been removed as a result. Now keep in mind I dont claim to be educated in the faith or other wise. Im just a practiccing cradle catholic, bound to abide by the rules, stating my opinion. Hope it is helpful. See you on the trail, ----RANBOW----

Well Moosetracker. I guess your experienced trainers want to see some originality and or resourcefulness. lol. I unfortunately have nothing more to add to what has already been stated. Contained within this post and the link provided by Boomerscout are a lot of good ideas. Some I've not heard before and will be giving a try. I have to wonder however, without taking away from the original intent or question of this thread, if anyone knows or has heard of a "foil dinner" recipe for pancakes or combination of them and a breakfast meat etc...? See you on the trail, ----RANBOW----

Although there are always going to be those who will take their own view on things. As a practicing catholic that attends several different parishes from time to time and several local ones frequently. It is my opinion that these changes should not be viewed in a negative light. I must also concur with the deacon on his previous posts. It is my understanding that these changes are meant to reflect a greater meaning for, and improve the understanding of, the purpose of the many traditions and particular prayers and responses used by the church in the mass. The end of this means is to provide the parishioners with a stronger faith and a better understanding of the practices / traditions. As a cradle catholic it hasnt been hard to see some changes that have already been implemented in the past couple of years (particularly by those that we refer to as baltimore priests ---Def = A priest that more closely follows the traditions of a baltimore catechist or pre vatican 2... IE. a more strict priest.--- Hope that was clear to the non catholics) . Although there are slight differences from parish to parish as to the way things are conducted as well as from priest to priest. it has been easy to see a definite increase in the emphasis on certain prayers (especially pre mass) and the use of latin songs or latin responses during the mass. Also as a cradle catholic that is old enough to have been influenced by the older, baltimore catechist generation. these changes dont have as much of an impact on me like they may a person that is still young or didnt grow up as a catholic. These are the ones who will notice the changes more and have stronger opinions about them for, everyone knows people as a whole dont like change. To be clear. When I refer to differences from parish to parish or priest to priest. I am talking about the way they go about things. Even though the same mass is going to be said at every parish throughout the world on that day and the masses are planned out three years in advance. the priest has the right to choose between different songs and some choose to sing certain things while others prefer them to be spoken. (This could get confusing to those who only attend at one parish and rarely see a different priest fill in or doesnt attend different parishes. not to mention those who attend part time. lol. Im sure deacon knows what I mean.) In final. It is my belief that these changes are meant to strengthen the church and the faith of the parishioners along with it. An increase in the understanding and meaning of the traditions and practices we use is also expected. In my opinion. With all the discussions in this forum about ... this troop/pack does this and this troop/pack does that, does this charter org. have more influence than others, troops from this charter org. does this, (omg some go home on sat night instead of sun morn. whats the big deal). I can see how this would make for somewhat of a good comparison. However. As a catholic. If it is decreed by the Holy See(THE POPE). I must and will abide. just as, as a Scout if the BSA decrees. We must also comply. In the end it is the ones that control the masses that are trying to improve the program, whether all agree that it is for the good or not. This is always going to be mere opinion and now I have given mine. I hope all will except it as just that and as scouts continue to remember to respect and be tolerant of others and their beliefs. See you on the trail... RANBOW

Having just re-entered scouting after getting away about 1986. I recall the mixed patrols as well. This of course was prior to this change and during the time of skill awards. The mixed patrols always seemed to work well as the older boys were able to teach the new ones the basic skills and help them advance in the early stages. This always seemed to create a chain of command structure that to me would actually seem to benefit the patrol method of scouting. It also allowed the new boys to go ahead and start to move forward on the idea of learning to follow in order to succeed in leading as well as becoming more independent and depending less on parental involvement while learning to work as a team. I can see where this change probably did have a big impact on competition too. This to me would seem to defeat the whole purpose but, I still have a lot of catching up to do since the days of my youth and I have yet to experience or observe the lateral patrol method in action. Am I correct to assume that it was at this same time that the skill awards were also done away with?

Was just wondering if anyone has ever used this device/product. they make a version for scouts. Kind of pricey but interesting just the same. Have no intent on getting one but, was curious as to whether anyone has had any experience with it. http://www.wildersol.com/Index.html

At what point did the BSA start to require approved MBC's. I dont recall approval being required in my days of being a youth scout.

Thanks fellows. Like I said, I'm glad to be here. I too wish I had known about the YPT sooner. My fears have been relieved as a result. I would have become involved again a long time ago had I followed things a bit more closely but, maintained a distance instead, while working through the shock of it all. I do plan on taking all the training I can in order to get caught up on todays way of doing things. My council does have the University and Commissioners College. They take place at the same time though. It will take place this nov. and I plan to take the Bachelors Comm. Coll. course. an all day event. I will also be taking a three part leader specifics course held once a week at the local council office in oct. as well as joining an outdoor skills training weekend. I have already taken all that is available online. Once the new troop is ready to become a reality, I also hope to occupy a position that will allow me to participate in outings and help to teach the boys their skills and help them with advancement. I will be signing up as a MB counselor in the near future as well. I'm sure I still have a lot to offer even though I came through during the time of skill awards. LOL From browsing the forums a bit, I have come to realize that there is a lot to gain from all the "experienced wisdom" contained within. I have also noticed that there are a few posters that have their own opinions about some issues that may need to be taken with a grain of salt. Lastly, I became aware of the need to utilize the concept of paragraphs immediately after clicking submit on my first ever post. I told you I was EXCITED. Looking forward to making many memories with the lot of you. ----RANBOW----

Hello fellow scouters, My name is Randy. Im glad to be here and hope to learn much about how scouting has changed since my last involvement almost 25 years ago now that I am returning to the scene. Please give me a few moments to tell you about myself, give you my history and explain why Im so excited as well as apprehensive at the same time. This way you will understand who you are talking with and be able to give me some input as I prepare to become re-familiar with this organization we all seem to love so much. To start with I am an Eagle Scout (3 palmer) as of 1982. As a youth I was also a brotherhood OA member and served as an asst. sm at the 1985 jamboree but, let me start at the beginning. I started camping, fishing and developing my love for the outdoors practically before I could walk. Joined and went through cubs and webeloos but never quite got my arrow of light due to moving down south just prior, around age ten. Joined Boy scouts after a recruiting drive at my school at age eleven. I didnt know my dad past the age of five. My mother abandoned me at the age of twelve (two days before christmas). I remained in the same area and in scouting as I went to stay with grandparents. They basically provided me with the necessities and loving encouragement but, never took much interest in and no attendance to any of my functions in scouting or school. I worked every odd job I could throughout my youth to go to camp and outings. Received my Eagle proudly in 1982. although, I along with three others at the time of recognition was the only one to not have any kind of parent /guardian present when I received my award. I earned my 3 palms and turned eighteen in the spring of 1985, Just prior to attending the jamboree as an adult leader. Scouting was my life and anchor. That fall I started my senior year of high school (as I was held back a year for an unknown reason at age seven). This is when my grandfather had his first heart attack and as they were well aged, it was made clear that they just couldnt continue to raise me any longer. Basically, I had to go. It was then that I was forced to try to survive on my own, finish school and provide my own means of living all at the same time. This left no time for scouting any longer. just purely survival. It however was Scouting that allowed me to persevere. Having made scouting my life and practically being raised by the scout leaders it was their example, along with the skills and morals taught to me through the program that gave me the foundation and motivation to take on the world alone. I did ok for myself after making my way into full adulthood and learning some real world, trade skills. All the work and struggling was starting to pay off. It was time to consider getting back into that which I loved so much --- Scouting. It was then that my former Scoutmaster was not only accused but convicted of sex crimes against some of my fellow scout brothers. I was not allowed to testify on his behalf as his attorney said I could be just as damaging as well as helpful. Most of the incidents referred to in the case were times when I was present and I knew for fact that these accusations were false. As I reflect upon this I have to admit that he did put himself into compromising situations and so forth but, I spent a great deal of time with this man and although he was a loving man he was no pedophile. Nor would he have abused these boys. I never noticed any strange behavior and he never made me uncomfortable in any way. Non the less, he received a great deal of time in prison. He maintains his integrity as he continues to profess his innocents. He also refuses to take any of the counseling. For in his mind it would be an admission of guilt to take counseling for something he is not. Therefore he will most likely spend his remaining days in prison. This made me extremely weary about rejoining the scouts. For years I have reflected on this and thought well, Maybe if I were really careful?, never let myself become alone with any boys?, always kept my guard up? naaa I better not... At the same time Im thinking it would be nice to put my son through scouts when I have one. Yeah thats what Ill do. Ill rejoin with my son and just stay alert and cautious of my actions.. Well, Ive been with my wife now for over 15 years and we have not been blessed with any children. So now Im starting to think it will never be again and I wont be able to give anything back to a young boy or the program that gave me everything that made me who I am. I have still remained an avid outdoorsman. Every time my buddies go on a camping trip or fishing excursion with me, they ask me, What kind of tree is that? Can you eat that plant? How many different knots could you use for this purpose? sometimes they do it just to tease. Others times Its a Legitimate query. Anyway, With this past year being the Centennial and the very last year at AP Hill as well as the new WV Bechtel site being built I became more than excited as I have always continued to follow the scouting way of life and maintained my pride for having been a youth participant and continue to be a NESA member. It was then --- This past summer that I have learned of the new policies that have been put into place to protect the boys and adults alike. Youth Protection Training...OMG at the Excitement!! This is great AND long over due as well. This is my ticket. This is my calling. Its time for me, even though Im now 43, to get back into scouting. I can hardly wait to give back just a piece of what scouting gave to me. I have since meet with and spoke to the local D.C. and signed back up. WOOHOO!!! As it would have it, he tells me that just a couple of weeks ago he was approached by a much more recent, former scouter that tells him he has been approached by parents at my very own church and wanted him to look into starting a new troop. The D.C. tells me that I couldnt have had better timing and he is going to give my info to this gentleman. He also happens to be a fellow KofC (although I cant place the name with the face yet). It appears I may be helping to start a new troop at my own church. Cant remember why they dont have one any longer and wasnt a scout there but non the less. WooHoo. I know it will take some time to get things in place but, this gives me time to become retrained also. In the meantime I have been given the title of unit commissioner and start becoming retrained in oct. Although extremely excited Im still a little nervous too. I still cant wait to don on a new uniform though. Any input, suggestions or commentary is much appreciated and I look forward to many wonderful conversations among all of you. Thanks in advance, ----RANBOW----