Beavah

Yep, that's it. The ability to conduct a commercial carraige transaction with a private provider is just a convenience and a privilege. So what you're sayin' there is that the government can interfere with any private transaction it wants to, eh? The ability to travel... just a convenience and a privilege. So da government can confine you to your state/city/neighborhood anytime it wants to, eh? I think the country you're lookin' for is Iran, mate. Remember, "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people." Beavah

Yeh can call me out all yeh like, CalicoPenn. I don't mind. . But I'll stand by what I said. The fact is the task force is not transparent, eh? Yeh found one member. Can you name the lot? Or find it anywhere, with contact information? Can you point to an agenda of an upcoming meeting? Minutes of a past meeting? If not, then how exactly are the IHs and CORs and Scoutmasters and council officers and other stakeholders supposed to express their position? We all know that council and higher appointees get there largely by donation dollars, eh? Now I do in fact know a few; used to know more when I wore different color should loops. So I think I'm in a better place to make an honest evaluation than you are. But unlike you, I think folks who are good individuals can still be part of groups that make bad institutional choices, eh? Sometimes because they don't have the skill for that work, sometimes because the structure of the system gets in the way, lots of reasons. The policy of the BSA, though, is set by the national executive board through the Rules and Regulations, not by the task force on this, that, or the other thing. The various BSA offices and committees help develop program materials, they don't set policy. Nor should they claim to, because that's just dishonest. And if yeh work on one of the various committees, yeh have to start with the R&R and da organizational mission, otherwise yeh do everyone a disservice. Beavah

run naked thru the house yelling woo woo ... Yah, hmmm.... Between blubber butts and this comment I really think there should be a rule against threads that leave really bad images in da minds of the readers. Beavah

I reckon that would only be meaningful if da National Advancement Task Force (is that what they're callin' themselves in the most recent re-organization?) operated transparently. That is to say, if their names, councils, positions in scouting, contact information and deliberations were made available so that people who actually work with kids and families, or CORs and community representatives who actually sponsor units, or business and college folks who actually teach or want to employ people could have input into what "active" really means in terms of developing character, fitness, and citizenship in young folks. From what I understand, it's a relatively small group that adheres to the make-believe definition of "active". Since that definition contradicts the official BSA policy and Rules & Regulations, to my mind the National Council should just remove their membership for failin' to live up to the BSA's charter and mission. But then we remember that it's just kids' program materials, eh? Not worth gettin' in a lather about. Besides, donations are more important. Beavah

To me, it seems that the requirements should allow an average scout, who puts forth reasonable effort, to earn the badge in a reasonable amount of time. I don't think either the published requirements or a counselor's discretion should require what I'll call an expert level of proficiency. Nah, we're never talkin' "expert" for a MB. I'd just say "competent", eh? Or to use da BSA language, "proficient" at the basics. To earn swimming MB, yeh have to be a competent swimmer, or proficient in all the basics of swimming. Another way to think about it might be good enough that they can be trusted to do it on their own, eh? If a lad earns Cooking MB, he should be good enough to be trusted to plan and cook a variety of different healthy meals on his own. Not be a Top Chef, nor be "did it once with help and forgot it." A boy who earns Canoeing MB should be able to canoe on his own or with a buddy, handlin' everything himself. Not be an Olympic paddler, nor have only unswamped a canoe once with an adult in ideal conditions. Generally speakin', I think if a lad starts at camp for the very first time, he should not be able to finish a badge at camp. A brand new, never-in-the-water boy is not goin' to be able to earn Swimming MB in a week. Same for most of the other badges, with da exception of a few low-hangin' "throw-away" badges like Fingerprinting. Beavah

Well, not actually, PapaDaddy. TSA officials said "various options" were given to Reppert and Weber during a private pat-down to get her through the checkpoint. But Weber said the only option was to not get on the plane. "They did not give any options except that they could not clear her with that wad in her diaper," Weber said. "My only option was to remove it." Weber took her mother to a bathroom and removed the diaper. Her mother boarded the plane without any underwear because there was no time to buy anything and there were no extra Depends in her luggage. "At that point, by the time they finally cleared her, it was about two minutes to flight time," she said. Weber said the missing the flight was not an option because of her mother's medical condition: she has cancer and needs medication and blood transfusions. Fotenos refused to divulge the other alternatives available to Weber and Reppert. This is a classic example, eh? Which is more important to us as Americans? Freedom or (the illusion of) security? Beavah

Yah, eisley, the incident you're thinkin' about was about 8 years ago in Oregon, eh? Completely different. There the camp was firing a genuine cast-iron cannon similar to an old sailing vessel swivel gun. Even though straight cast iron cannon should not really be fired these days without a steel reinforcing tube, it probably would have been OK except that they used fine-grained powder, gave it a "double-load" for effect, and plugged the end with somethin' they thought would be a fun projectile (like a potato gun). Has nuthin' at all to do with the Conestoga cannons fuzzievohs is talkin' about. Beavah

Yah, E61, my heart goes out to the young man. So much of how young people take death they learn from watchin' the folks around them. Boys especially don't talk so much as watch and do. By just being an example of a man who has been through death and hard times before, you will give him a model of how he can cope with such things. How to stay with his dad when it's hard. How to say goodbye. How to pray when empty. How to support his mom and any siblings. And most importantly, how to grieve. Just be present, and be that example. Teens lives are up and down, eh? Da next year will be more up and down than usual. I also strongly agree with structuralrik, eh? "Try not to change other parts of his life or routine. The loss can be confusing, routine can stabilize him and allow the grieving process to progress." The lad is losing one of his anchors. It's more important than ever that the other anchors in his life stay in place - his mom, you, his school, his activities. And by all means, let his troop know so that they can do their part. It's a godsend at wakes and funerals to have some other young people to just be with as a break from the press of adults. Beavah

I've seen 'em or things like 'em used. One Sea Scout ship I know seems to be particularly fond of theirs. And no, a miniature toy replica is not a cannon or large bore artillery piece for da purpose of G2SS. B

I just love amateur legal speculations, eh? Folks, there are felonies and there are felonies, eh? It can be anything, but most often it's somethin' that a fellow did as a young man when under the influence of alcohol. Sometimes, folks without a lot of money for a proper defense can even be the victim of an overzealous prosecutor. And in da U.S., for the most part once you've done your time you get to return to the community as a regular, ordinary, productive citizen and family member. These things call for an exercise of intelligent good judgment, of prudence mixed with compassion. And yeh don't go blabbin' gossip all over creation, whether it's about someone's youthful conviction or someone's business indiscretion or whatever da fencepost conversation of the week is. A Scout is Kind. Beavah

Yah....interestin'. I was tryin' to look up what da Camp Archery Association award levels are, as a comparison with what others do. For middle schoolers, I'm pretty sure CAA starts at 20 yards, with award levels beginning at 100pts and goin' on up from there. Seems like 170 at 15 yards wouldn't be too unreasonable for a lad who had really learned the skill. Problem is, as others have pointed out, camp equipment ain't always that well maintained or sized for individual boys, and some of it ... B

Oh puhlease. Da title of the thread is a giveaway, eh? Straight out spamming. Check out my commercial site and give me "feedback"... Righhhht. In most forums the fellow would already be banned. In some states he'd owe Scouter Terry money. Every commercial entity that sells scout products or services would love to be able to get their site exposed to a couple thousand scouters for free, eh? Especially if that thread stays around forever to pop up when anyone does a search on scouter.com. Also increases his search engine ranking. But if everybody did that, not only would scouter.com be buried in commercial "feedback" threads, but Scouter Terry would get less ad revenue,eh? Maybe enough less to make da site not worth maintaining. One measure of ethics is to always behave in a manner such that if everyone else made the same choice as you, things would work out well. That's the essence of LNT, eh? Buildin' one new fire ring doesn't seem like much. But if every group of campers builds just one new fire ring a year, it would be a disaster for most of our public lands. No different for spammers like scoutgroove. Now I can see how many forum members might not "get it", eh? Just like some folks don't "get" LNT. Da thing is, scoutgroove knows what he's doin' is wrong. Heck, for his commercial site he's got to build in protections against other spammers just like himself. Despite that, he's doin' it anyways, and projecting his own lack of courtesy onto others. Typical for some disreputable firms, of course. But shameful in a scoutin' context. Beavah

What is that old saying: An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"? Yah, but what we have is about a hundred thousand tons of prevention, eh? Bin Laden was smart, I have to give him that. Put one nitwit on a plane with a bomb in his shoe that he doesn't even know how to set off and yeh get Americans to spend hundreds of billions of dollars and subject 95 year old cancer patients to strip searches. That's a heck of an investment, eh? Few ounces of explosive without detonator, $50. Plane ticket, $500. Ability to make the "Home of the Brave" run around in abject terror for an entire decade? Priceless. Yeh can imagine "any nutjob who has a religious issue, or a anti government militia type" doin' all kinds of things. Blowing up schools, buying a gasoline truck and driving around neighborhoods at night settin' fire to hundreds of homes, tossin' grenades around a public swimming pool on a hot 4th of July. That's what's great about imagination, eh? It can dream up all kinds of things. So pretty soon we have strip searches of kids at every school door, every neighborhood gated with armed guards and truck barriers, and a dozen armed SWAT officers stationed at every public pool "inspecting" teenage girls' chests for grenades. Oooh! Oooh! The fact that nothin' has happened since we started strip searching kindergarteners at the school every morning is PROOF that the security is working! Never mind that nothing much happened before that security was put in place either. Beavah

His mom is considering pulling him out of the troop because it's "pointless" for him to continue without being able to advance. Yah, hmmm.... The "point" of scouting is to learn skills and develop character and citizenship, not to take home badges. Advancement is just a tool that works for some (but not all) kids to help them in learning skills/developing character. Step 1: Educate Mom on what this scoutin' thing is all about. Do I advance the boy because it isn't his fault that they don't have the resources (i.e. money or access to a pool) to get lessons? Or do I let mom win and lose a promising young scout who could go far in his "career" to a life of video games, etc? Yah, hmmm... That's a completely false dichotomy. More realistic is "do I feel sorry for this kid and teach him and all the other boys that I will cheat on their advancement if they just whine about possibly quitting, or do I help this boy learn character and citizenship by inspiring and coaching him to find/earn the resources he needs to overcome an obstacle? A lad who passes the 2nd class but not the 1st class swim test is pretty far along, eh? Nowhere near as big a challenge for him as it is for those boys who have a genuine fear of the water. All he has is a bit of an endurance/breathing problem which can be overcome with just some work. Step 2: Sit with the boy and help him make his own plan for how to overcome the challenge. Step 3: Encourage (and quietly assist) the boy to follow through on his plan. Step 4: Celebrate with him when he succeeds, knowin' that now you really have a promising young scout who could go far in his "career", because he knows he is capable of overcoming a challenge. Beavah

Could these requirements be a holdover of when FA MB was required for First Class? Nah, they were all added in the last decade, long after when FA MB was required for first class. I think the intent was to reinforce outdoor first aid.

Yah, Tahawk, I was just funnin' with yeh, eh? . I know yeh know what a MBC is. That was part of the fun. Kinda a "lighten up Francis" moment. I think anybody who expects "standardization" in the BSA program is just goin' to drive themselves and everyone around 'em crazy. Scouting is a kids game, offered by volunteers and a wide range of organizations with different goals and values. You're never goin' to standardize that. Heck, da public schools in a state spend a truckload of gold every day with professional staff and standardized tests and they fail spectacularly at creating a standard experience for a high school kid across just one state, let alone 50. What you're proposin' can't be done. What's more, I don't think even if we could do it we'd want to. There's strength in diversity, eh? Each troop and SM and MBC is different. Each reaches different kids. That's mostly a good thing. Yah, yah, sometimes Eagle is da equivalent of a top-tier high school award and sometimes it amounts to a consolation prize for a middle schooler, and that's clearly a bit frustratin' if you're in a place that believes in the former. Da problem is if yeh go the standardization route, like as not yeh standardize on mediocrity, like active=registered. . Or yeh end up with da fellow who measures the margins on the Eagle project report to make sure they're standardized. Me, I like the fact that you can be out there holdin' kids to high expectations. I interpret da requirement the same way you do. I like havin' freedom to do that, and troops having freedom to set da bar high. I also like not havin' to deal too often with some standardization freak who rejects an advancement report because the optional blue card wasn't filled out in black ink. In short, I like the free market. I don't want it replaced by one size fits all. So if it's all da same, can yeh perhaps joust with a different windmill? Beavah

Yah, I'm kinda with short ridge, eh? If scoutin' has gotten to the point where we need an adult content management system to administer just one of da methods, maybe we need to take a step back and ask ourselves what in the h*** we're doin'. Now, I grant yeh that kids these days are pretty wired and the net is a fine way to communicate. But if the boys feel they really need something', why not encourage 'em to build it rather than take it away from them? I'm willing to bet that the lads would not choose a CMS for advancement as the most important need in their troop, eh? Perhaps da money is better spent on patrol gear. Beavah

LOL. I'm rude? From a spammer? Well, now, there's this thing about pots and kettles... I note that you've only posted here with respect to soliciting for your business enterprise, and your registration date is the same as your first post. Again, none of what yeh are talkin' about matters, eh? Doesn't matter that yeh spent your own money and time. Everyone here spends months and often more than mere "hundreds" of dollars on scouting. We contribute without compensation. We don't try to make money or "just break even". We use Scouter Terry's resource to assist fellow scouters because we took an Oath to help other people at all times. What you are doin' is spamming a bulletin board. If yeh actually do computer work and yeh don't know that, then I reckon your service isn't worth much, eh? . But since yeh do computer work, then there's little doubt that you know exactly what you're doin', and you know that it's unacceptable, and you're choosin' to do it anyway. That's dishonorable. Lots of folks who have lurked or even posted regularly could benefit from havin' fellow scouters contribute to their side business. Heck, I reckon there are a few scouters here who are out of work or strugglin' in the economy. But they're not spamming da forums for research. If you're sellin' somethin', and yeh are, then you're engaged in a commercial enterprise regardless of whether or not you're currently making a profit. And if you're engaged in a commercial enterprise, yeh play by the rules. That is my honest feedback. Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

Yah, I don't think I get it either, Tahawk. Tryin' to come up with a laundry list of first aid requirements to my mind is just silly. A Florida scout might need to know about jellyfish stings, while a Minnesota scout needs to know chilblains. No need for altitude medicine in these parts, but I reckon that's not the case in Utah. That's why we have these things called "merit badge counselors", eh? . You know, real experts or at least solid mentors in an area who can exercise their judgment and knowledge to determine what is appropriate for a lad who is hiking, camping, fishing, etc. in their area. Beavah

Has nuthin' to do with kindness. You are selling a commercial product. You are taking advantage of da forum service to both advertise your product and do market research and testing for your product without paying. That's what's called "spam". It's unethical. It's discourteous. It's dishonorable. For a scouter, it's shameful. You want to do market research or testing on your commercial product? Do it like every other business does it. Pay for it. Yeh only get the community to assist for free if you are goin' to GPL the code or otherwise offer da service for free to everyone, eh? And even then, it would still be wrong to spam someone else's bulletin board for your R&D. Beavah

Yah, I always have to wonder how people who profess to be scouts or scouters can be so lazy, clueless, or rude as to SPAM a scouting forum with an advertisement for their commercial service. It's like "oh, it must be OK because I'm offering a scouting product". No, it's not. If yeh want to post a commercial link here, have the decency and honor to pay Scouter Terry for an advertisement so as to support the site. Don't be a freeloader off the work of others. Leastways, not if yeh expect to get scouts or scouters as customers. Beavah

Yah, context is everything, eh? Most BSA units in Europe are on military bases, and often those bases have a NATO component. Most European nations don't have a single scout association, they have several different ones, and I can see Brits on a base in, say, France opting to join a BSA unit rather than one of da French scout groups. Who would want to join the French Also the BSA units overseas are a bit remote from contact with other BSA units, so they can "drift" a bit more. Add to that the transfer from military sponsorship and yeh get some delicate stuff. Best to tread softly, move gently. It's a game with a mission. Keep it lighthearted like a game, and don't compromise the mission by gettin' into useless minor skirmishes. Beavah

Yah, there's always some excuse for not followin' the Scout Law. There's always a litany of "history" of real or pretended slights and grievances. Doesn't matter if you're 3 or 43, eh? Sounds the same. Yah, of course she's anti-American because she happens to be British. Might even be true, eh? Most of worldwide scouting thinks BSA folks are obnoxious, and even Baden-Powell had to hold his nose when dealin' with the BSA's corporate scouting model. The movement really is very different in other lands. In some ways worse. In many ways, better. Mostly just different. Yah, of course yeh could find families that chose not to join your troop. There's not a troop around where yeh can't find some families who chose not to join and went to another troop farther away. Not enough uniforming. Too much uniforming. Not enough youth leadership. Too much youth leadership. Not enough advancement. Too much advancement. Didn't like young leaders. Didn't like old leaders. Not enough parent involvement. Too much parent involvement. Yeh see as many parents pull their boys out of fine programs as yeh see boys cling to 'em. I can't speak to your circumstances, eh? I'm off in cyberspace. All I can try to do is offer what limited feedback your words suggest. Complainin' about party invitations? Really? Da Scout Law isn't worth a darn thing if yeh only live it when dealing with pleasant people you agree with. It has value only when we struggle to live up to it when it's hard. Like when we're dealin' with people who we find unpleasant and disagreeable, but who held together our troop for years before we got there. You know as an ADC what your "fight" options are, eh? Yeh go to the COR and IH and make a case for removing the CC who has run their organization's program for many years, over the objection of the old SM who did the same. Maybe yeh convince 'em, maybe yeh don't. Occasionally that's even the right thing to do. But as an ADC yeh know that the real role and talent in da Commissioner Corps is to act with more kindness, grace, and finesse. You've only done your job right if she leaves her role as CC being still a strong supporter and advocate for da troop. Beavah

Yah, OK, perhaps another troll, eh? I think da essay he's referring to is http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2010/07/how_diversity_punishes_asians.html It references a study by Thomas Espenshade and Alexandria Radford based on one of those big survey pools (National Study of College Experience). It's actually a thought-provoking essay. An early pre-review copy of da research study I think is here: https://www.princeton.edu/~tje/files/Standardized%20AdmissionTests.pdf They also have a book published by Princeton University Press and available from Google Books: http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=47rORpFmuBwC&oi=fnd&pg=PR1&dq=Espenshade+and+Radford+NSCE+study&ots =1U2O4vgR6U&sig=Fz7EePEj1MpvQaKKcKxHi9V7Vx4#v=onepage&q&f=false (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

Yah, hiya ScoutBox! Committees and troop membership change over time, eh? Yeh have a group that worked hard, learned a lot as their son moved through, and enjoyed scoutin' enough to have some "ownership" and stay on. Those folks are often a real gift to the program, because they provide stability and continuity, just as new members are a gift to the program because they provide energy and change. All things in balance, eh? It is properly the role of the old guard to slow things down a bit, help da new folks be alert to traps, and help 'em handle hard stuff. That can come across as negative, but often it's just grizzled experience. I reckon plenty of da old guard here come across as BSA-negative sometimes, just from da school of hard knocks, though we all bleed khaki. Just as new folks come across as naive and a bit shallow in their program knowledge to the old guard or perhaps less than fully committed to good scoutin'. What I'd guess is goin' on is that the old guard is a bit cliquish, and so are the new folks. People tend to hang out with folks they know and are comfortable with, eh? That's just natural, unless yeh have a few really social "bridge" people. So rather than go off to have a fight, my recommendation to yeh is that yeh go off to have a party. Plan some social events just for adult troop members, and include some of those goofy games that get people to mingle and have fun across the clique lines. Maybe a summer barbeque where the adults gather and the kids run around in the park, or an evening out. Whatever works for your group so that folks get to know and understand and trust each other.... and most especially, to appreciate each other's perspectives. Spend time listening to and appreciating their war stories and battle scars so yeh know where they're comin' from; ask after their kids and what their kids got out of scoutin' to understand why they care enough to stay. Do that, and they might start listenin' to your ideas and enthusiasms and hopes for your kids. To make a unit run well, yeh need both old wisdom folks and new worker folks, eh? But they both need to work at da Scout Law and treat each other with Loyalty, Helpfulness, Courtesy, and Kindness. Yah, yah, I know, that's never easy. It's always someone's fault, she can be soooo difficult, yada yada. But I reckon if we ask and expect the lads to work hard on livin' up to the law, we adults should put our time in, too. My bet is that if yeh treat each other as friends, the old guard will move on, because they trust that "their" program is in good hands. And as an added bonus, they'll be there for yeh when yeh have a problem, or need a campership funded, or just need some perspective when you become da "old guard" and the new folks just don't get it. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)