Beavah

Yah, da world is full of all types, eh? And sometimes people find small ponds like scout troops are a place they can play at bein' big fish. I've seen quite a few over the years, most not quite as "reality challenged", but a few substantially worse. Good job to all of you who are handling it well and taking the steps to protect your program and keep things focused on the kids. Beavah

I was taught, and observed, that the purpose of Scouting was to turn out good citizens and good men. It succeeds, or fails, according to whether it accomplishes that purpose. I think Scouting is Outing, myself. Lots of programs workin' on developing good citizens and good men. We're associated with doin' that in the outdoors. Just look at Learning for Life, eh? That's another BSA program to develop citizenship and good men and women with a school curriculum. I don't think it's Scoutin', though. I bet there's some great ways to use video games to develop good citizenship and good ethical choices too. Some of da networked games are truly astonishing in the level of interaction and adventure they provide. "Do I rescue the princess at risk of the character I spent months to develop, or do I take the gold and run?" "Do I become a Player-Killer, and try to grab the riches other players have accumulated to get rich quick?" Playin' soccer for fitness and usin' a video game for citizenship might be very effective. Betcha kids would even learn Signaling if it helped 'em get to the next level, eh? I don't think it would be Scoutin', though. We do citizenship through Outdoor Adventure. Beavah

Yah, in da thread on a young scout hero, Gunny comments: Unfortunately that's not how many parents see things today, no one wants to put themselves at risk to help someone change a tire on the side of the road . Just got me to wonderin' how many scouters and troops, as a regular habit, stop and check on stranded motorists when they're goin' to and from a weekend camping? Help change tires, give a lift to pick up a gallon o' gas, whatever. You know... help other people at all times? Beavah

And Beavah, I would try not to judge millions of people simply by when they were born. Yah, I was just tryin' to buck up Pack378, eh? He was seemin' a bit down on his generation. seems to be a bit heavy on the doom and gloom Lookin' back, I guess it might seem that way just 'cause of the order I put things in. I really wasn't tryin' to be gloomy. Me personally, I think Scouting does a wonderful job for a lot of kids, eh? It's sometimes the most significant growth experience in their lives as young people... stays with 'em forever. I'm in it for that reason. What each of us does in Scoutin' every day matters. It's worth bein' proud of, and I wear da uniform proudly too. But we also gotta be honest with each other and guys like Pack378, eh? It's easy to point to da fact that the "Green Zone" is relatively safe, and ignore a bigger picture. The bigger picture is that even da kids who love Scouting are reluctant to admit it to their school peers for much of their Scoutin' career. I don't understand it myself, 'cause I think what we do is pretty cool. But honesty demands that we acknowledge that. And most Boy Scouts would die before wearin' their uniform to school. Pointin' to individuals or troops that are an occasional exception doesn't change da bigger picture. The bigger picture is also that the perceived positives among our fellow adult citizens have diminished somewhat in recent years. Yah, yah, those of us who are livin' in conservative white middle-class communities might not be seein' that yet, and I'm glad. But white middle class communities are becomin' a smaller % of da kid population every day, and not everybody is a conservative . We can all point to the people who come up to thank us - they're obvious. Even if they were only 1% of the population we'd all have lots of great anecdotes to report, eh? What's less obvious are the people who roll their eyes and look the other way, or who do as Pack378 says and quietly badmouth us over our poor safety record, or "Leave Much Trace" unethical camping, or child abuse or right wing ideology or just that sports show more obvious results for fitness and character. Dat's out there too, eh? And it never used to be. Last, we gotta recognize that our "dads as volunteers" setup (or moms for cubbies) might not be the best fit for the majority anymore. Lots of single-parent families out there. Lots of folks working two shifts. Lots of families with both parent workin', so weekends get spent doin' housework and yardwork and such. Yah, yah, and we can all point to exceptional single-parent dual-shift folks who are outstandin' Scout volunteers, I know several. But in da bigger picture, it matters overall. We've got less good volunteers. Add it all up and we see a loss of camps. We see a lot of districts that are only functional on paper. We see a gradual membership decline. We see a loss of a lot of youth when they hit middle school and high school and play a greater role in makin' their own decisions about extracurriculars. We see our national corporation movin' toward school-based, non-volunteer programs like Learning for Life. That's just bein' honest, eh? Which is all Pack 378 was bein', I think. It's still a great program, with wonderful people. We still do a super job for a lot of kids. We still have a lot of friends in the community. For almost all of us in our individual programs, it's a great, positive experience, and da negatives hardly affect us at all. But a Scout is Trustworthy, and that means bein' honest with ourselves about da bigger picture. Beavah

By the way, this particular arrangement looks legal to me, as it was available to all property owners in the areas covered on the same terms. Yah, it should be, eh? Now, does the suit also illustrate how some folks try to use "separation of church and state" as a mechanism for repressing religion and religious expression? Makin' religion the only thing that isn't allowed access to resources from the state... I suspect defense of this suit will cost more than what the grants would have been. Beavah

Yah, I usually stay away from these threads, eh? But what the heck. Hunt was gentle, I'll be blunt. I think callin' Christians, or Muslims, or Buddhists who believe homosexuality is disordered "bigots" is itself the worst kind of bigotry. It slurs others by ethnicity and religious belief. It's no different than anti-Semitism or any similar ugly prejudice. I personally believe homosexual activity is disordered and sinful, and that's consistent with my faith, eh? I've gotta admit, though, I've not yet met a sinless Scouter. I've known some good men and women, but they've all had their struggles. Drinking, infidelity, tax cheats, unfair labor practices, lies, pornography, whatever. We are all sinners and sons of sinners. Yeh can't make being sinless a criteria for leadership. Da real issue is unrepentant and open sinfulness bein' a bad example for the kids. A Scouter who drinks too much on his own time is fine; but not a Scouter who is arrested for DUI and who claims drinking to excess is an OK lifestyle choice. I think most of us are "don't ask, don't tell." It's only been when someone takes a public advocacy position that there's a more serious issue. Doesn't matter whether it's homosexuality or heterosexual promiscuity or tax evasion or smoking weed. And that's the missin' side of tjhammers poll numbers. A plurality of Americans are willin' to be compassionate about the government not interferin' in a personal ethical choice about sexuality. But a large majority of Americans don't want that choice advocated to their kids as an example of something "right." Beavah

Yah, Pack378. You're right, eh? Boy Scouting is not cool. On the kid side of modern America, it's a dorky thing to do. That's an image problem. Don't know where it came from. The dress-designer uniform contributes a bit, but it's much bigger than that. It keeps a lot of kids away. On the adult side of modern America, the old feeling of Boy Scouting being Patriotic and 'Adult Approved' has faded quite a bit. Other activities like sports get more real 'adult approval'. Our actions on social issues and abuse cases and selling camps have all contributed, as have generational changes in attitude. So we've mostly lost da kid side of marketing, and we're losing the adult side in a lot of areas. And as you say, Boy Scouting is almost exclusively a white middle class intact family program. The volunteer demands ace out a lot of single-parent types (and many dual-income families), and we've never had any serious penetration into other ethnic groups. In the long run, we could well become a small niche program for Mormons and other rural conservatives. I actually suspect that we will, because I don't think there's enough creative energy left in da organization to overcome its inertia. Can yeh even name a single adult in the program who wasn't a scout as a youth? Hard to generate new ideas with that mix, eh? No point blamin' outsiders, almost all of it is our own marketing and organizational choices. Yeh make a good point, though, Pack378. Youth numbers ultimately depends on the number of quality adults givin' their time... willing to put on that uniform. I don't know of any council anywhere that has a bunch of excess enthusiastic adults around lookin' to start new units. Now, what do you do with all that? Nuthin'. For the kids and families you work with, what you do is important. It will be a significant part of their life growing up. What you do with those boys will change their world, and they in turn will affect the bigger world. We might not reach all kids and all families; but the kids we do reach need us, and we can do a great job for them. The program may niche out in the next 20-50 years, or fade altogether. All good things must come to an end. Dat's a problem for Irving. But what you do for kids in the program will last, eh? Don't sweat the people you can't reach. Do a great job for the kids you can. And as for Gen-X, I count you guys as at least a dozen steps better than da Baby Boomers. More rational, more generous, less self-absorbed. Yeh inherited some of their foolishness, eh, but you've rejected the worst of it. Don't be down on your generation. I think you're great kids. Just look at the mess the current crop of Baby Boomers in Congress is makin' of things. All about themselves, not about service. I'm countin' on you guys to bring us back to reality and honor. Beavah

Yah, Anne, it's been a while since I paddle that stretch, eh? I can say that the upstream stretch from Norway to Soderbeck ain't much fun below 5' on the gauge. 3.25 is pretty durn low. I think you'll find that the Class I riffles below Soderbeck will might well be a "get out and walk"/"scrape along da bottom", but other stuff will be navigable if you're payin' attention to where the current is goin'. So the rest just depends on your kids, eh? Beavah

Yah, OK, that's interestin', eh? A vote for Bush in many cases is a vote against a Democratic Party platform or a liberal dingbat like Kerry. I understand completely. I still wish McCain had been da Republican nominee back in 2000. I think then we would have seen real leadership. W to me always seemed like he was pantomiming an act of real leadership through 9-11. Why I wouldn't vote for him again: He doesn't listen to anyone with expertise or experience. Worse than that, he cuts out people with expertise if they don't agree, and surrounds himself with cronies and "yes-men". Harriet Meyers for Supreme Court, for cryin' out loud? He doesn't listen to his field commanders. He ignored Powell and the entire State Department. His appointment of cronies ruined Homeland Security, FEMA, DoJ, the Iraq occupation. Gotta bunch of friends and former scouts servin' in the sandbox right now and it's clear to them it's been another politically micromanaged war. W let Bin Laden get away at Tora Bora he was so busy micromanaging. They tell me even the "surge" numbers were determined by what was readily available and politically easy, not what they really needed. The man is so incompetent he's a menace. More than that, he's betrayed almost every conservative principle. His federal budget is out of control, borrow-and-spend. He's engaged in nation-building which he promised he would never do. He presided over the biggest expansion of federal interference in state's rights with NCLB. He's increased our energy dependence. He's duplicated LBJ's failed programs, expanded Medicare and Rx drug entitlements while prosecuting a war, expanded farm subsidies more than ever. Warrantless domestic spying, passport requirements for American citizens without makin' any real effort to secure our most problematic border. Allowed most of our manufacturing base to move overseas into the hands of adversaries. And the way he's abused the military and national guard with long deployments, stop-losses, and poor care on their return should earn him time in Leavenworth. But he does claim to pray and be a man of principle. That's why despite goin' on about makin' judges adhere to the federal sentencing guidelines, he pardons a crony because the low end of the sentencing guidelines is "too onerous." Perjury and obstruction are impeachable offenses for the other side, but just a winkin' offense if it's "our guy." And then of all things badmouths Fitzgerald, a true man of principle. Yah, and real men of principle render citizens of allies for torture by foreign powers, eh? Bah! So I wouldn't vote for him again just because it's important for the Republican Party to learn that when we vote for conservatives, we expect real conservatives. And competent leaders. And principled folk who put America ahead of party. All that havin' been said, I look at the Democratic field and wanna be sick. Republican field as well, for that matter. Beavah

I've got a problem with my car. Can you tell me what I should do to fix it? Probably not without askin' me a lot of questions about exactly what's goin' on with it, eh? Yah, Foxy. I know you're real close to the problem, eh? So it's personal. Yeh gotta remember, we're far away. If you're really lookin' for advice or information that would be useful, we gotta ask questions. If you're just lookin' for a place to vent, that's OK too, yah? Just make it clear so we can offer sympathy instead of advice, eh? Beavah

Yah, foxy, like others I'm still confused, eh? I think talkin' to your DAC is probably the way to go. Personally, I don't have any problem with an EBOR asking a few questions of a SM. In fact, it's sorta nice to bring a SM in first, tho' I don't do it myself. I've at least found it particularly helpful to know about a special needs boy, so that the board could adapt its questioning style a bit. Bringin' a SM in first would be one way to do that. In terms of specifics... If yeh don't think a boy should be Eagle, you don't sign the application. Givin' the board dirt under the table isn't fair. If yeh sign the application, you're there to support the boy, period. As SM you don't have any official say in who sits on a board. Two district members, a COR, and a CO member who is a neighbor of the boy is a perfectly reasonable EBOR on the face of it. If you've got issues with a particular board member that are serious (because he's a jerk and won't be fair to the boy), then yeh speak up in advance. Lots of CO/CORs "don't have a clue what's going on." They trust the CC and SM quite a bit, eh? If there's somethin' they need to be clued in about, yeh need to make an appointment with 'em and sit down and have a chat. That should have nothing to do with a boy's rank progression, eh? Not the boy's fault if there's adult communication issues, and not da CO's job to be involved in that level of program detail. Readin' back through your old posts, it seems that you've been more or less in continual conflict with your TC and CO. That can really damage a troop, eh? I think yeh should leave the boys out of that, and then either make a choice to keep pluggin' with a long term view or pull the ripcord and go find a better place to contribute. Maybe yeh want to start a thread and just share all your issues with your CO/committee? Beavah

In da previous thread, someone writes: I voted for Bush twice, and I'd do it again, if I could. And I was just wonderin' "Why?" Seems like an interestin' off-topic thread. If yeh voted for W. at least once, would yeh vote for him again, and Why/Why Not? Goal bein' to understand each other's perspectives, not startin' an argument. Though I'm sure the arguments will come, eh? Beavah

Yah, usetobeafox, yeh need to give us a bit more background, eh? A SM doesn't sit on an EBOR. Doesn't need to be there at all, in fact. A SM can choose not to sign off for requirements for Eagle. A SM can choose not to endorse a boy's Eagle application. Both are fine options if a SM feels a boy is not yet ready/has not yet achieved what he needs to for da rank. A SM can also offer some input into who sits on a boy's EBOR, by workin' through the CC or the district advancement chair. That can sometimes be "strong input," eh? As in "If you send Dick Dunderhead out, we'll be canceling and rescheduling." Most CC's and DAC's will be sensitive to a SM's particular concerns. Yah, so there's ways of approachin' boys who aren't yet ready, and ways of approachin' adults who don't have da skills/personality for an EBOR. Which are we talkin' about here? Beavah

Yah result1, Not every program is for every family, eh? I think both you and the SM/CC recognize that the troop hasn't been a "good fit" for either side. Lots of other great programs for kids out there. Other troops, other groups like CAP, other activities. I hope yeh find one that's a good experience for your boy and your family. Very best, Beavah

The next administration is going to have a tough row to hoe and there's a perverse part of me that hopes the Republicans can hang onto everything. For that matter I'd vote for Rudy or Fred to help it along. Yah, there's somethin' about that whole "only Nixon could go to China" bit, eh? In some ways, it'd take a an honest and honorable Republican to dig out of da current mess. Admittin' errors, rebuilding the federal departments and the military. If yeh don't have people within each party who are willin' to challenge complacency and incompetence within their own ranks first, then we're doomed to just alternate between screamin' partisans on one side or da other. I'm sorta with Hunt. The low point came when the Democrat members of Congress all walked down to applaud Clinton after he was impeached by the House. More than anything, that showed Party comes before Principle or Country, and generated the natural reaction which led to Republicans in firm control. I was readin' in an op-ed piece today that there are some 30 Republican and 30 Democratic senators who are in favor of followin' the Iraq Study Group engagement and withdrawal plan. Plus 20 mostly Republican Hawks who want to keep surgin' and 20 mostly Democrat Peacenicks who want to just get out. Problem is, Reid and a mess won't allow a vote on that because it's better for the Democrats (and Republicans) to "stick together" than it is to do what a bipartisan majority feel is right for the country. A pox upon both their houses. We need an "American Party". Beavah

Yah, Gonz, I hear yeh. I'm a long time conservative type, but not a neoCon. Da democrats are and have been awful about all kinds o' things. But I really believe that what distinguishes the good guys from the bad is honesty and honor. So I think we've gotta be honest and honorable about assessin' the current administration. Everybody makes mistakes; da problem with both Clinton and W. was the lack of honesty and honor in ownin' up to them. "Goin' after the terrorists??". War without national sacrifice is just LBJ's "Guns and Butter" all over again. Leads to nuthin' but moral and fiscal bankruptcy, and long-term harm to our armed services and our national security. Problem is we're lookin' ahead to another election like 2000 and 2004, where both parties are so stuck in the mud because of their ideological extremes that we'll end up with another polarizin' set of "two evils" choices. Gawd, a return to a Clinton dynasty instead of a Bush dynasty? Surely America can do better than two "royal" families. Where do I go to elect someone who's honest and honorable?

A great story below. Goin' back to the "What is Scouting?" thread, is the ability to handle an emergency part of what we are? And if so, are we doin' that well? Are we givin' kids today the same quality of instruction and settin' the same high expectations that allowed this man's Boy Scout trainin' to save a life many years later? Would an average seat-time summer camp FA MB have accomplished this? Ex-Scout Helps Save Wreck Victim's Life http://www.wral.com/news/local/story/1590514/ Smithfield A Johnston County man credits his Boy Scout training for his life-saving effort on the shoulder of Interstate 40 two months ago. Steven Parker was driving on I-40 on May 20 when he witnessed a wreck. A car speeding down the interstate in the wrong direction slammed head-on into another vehicle near Clayton. The second vehicle flipped several times, and Blake Leonard, 21, ripped through his seat belt and was thrown from the vehicle. "It was probably one of the most horrible things I've ever seen in my life," said Parker, who pulled off I-40 and ran over to help. "The only thing I remember from as soon as the wreck happened was pretty much just picking my leg up off the ground and holding it," Leonard said. Parker grabbed a pair of jeans from the wrecked car, tied it around Leonard's leg and used his fist to make a tourniquet. He slowed the blood flow and kept Leonard calm until paramedics arrived. "He was obviously a young kid, and all I could think about was, if I don't stop this bleeding, he's going to die right here in front of me," Parker said. He credited his childhood experience as a Boy Scout for knowing what to do. Special Forces paramedics from Fort Bragg taught his troop first aid, he said. "After it was all said and done, I was shaking," he said of his roadside experience. "I don't know how you keep it together with something like that other than the fact that someone else is depending on you." Leonard's leg had to be amputated, and he underwent 10 surgeries during a 41-day stay in the hospital. But he and his mother credit Parker with keeping him alive. "We consider the guy who saved Blake's life to be an angel," said Leonard's mother, Martha Lancaster. "He is our all-time hero in this." Leonard and Lancaster said they have spoken to Parker on the phone and hope to meet him in person. In the meantime, Leonard is learning to walk again with a prosthetic leg. "If he hadn't done it, I wouldn't be here ... right now," Leonard said. But Parker dismissed the hero talk. "I think the real heroes would be like the paramedics and the doctors who actually did save his life. I might have bought him a little bit of time," he said.

Quite a thread resurrection there, packsaddle. Yah, yah, OK. I admit it. I voted for the man in 2000. I apologize to everyone for doin' it. It's hard to avoid the unpleasant conclusion that I helped elect probably the worst executive in da history of the Republic. I voted for fiscal responsibility. I got borrow-and-spend for "earmarks". I voted for honor and respect for our armed services. I got ignorant micromanaging of the military and every other federal department, abuse of our military and national guard, and war-without-sacrifice. I voted for "no nation building". I got da biggest boondoggle of attempted nation-building ever. I voted for judicial restraint, and got legal incompetence. And on and on.... I apologize. I will at least offer that I said personally and professionally that Bush v. Gore was one of the most poorly reasoned decisions I'd seen the court make in many a year. Ain't that always da problem with judicial activism, whether it's Roe v. Wade or Bush v. Gore? It employs misplaced paternalism to cut short a debate and a process that needs to happen in public across the several states, as we try to find a consensus as a people. Beavah

In our council we were told that all MBCs must submit a separate registration, even if they are already registered as a Scouter in another position. There is no fee for the MBC registration, but they did make us submit them. LOL Well, there's always somebody somewhere who does it different, eh? Of course, da BSA counts #of registered volunteers for evaluation and solicitation purposes. More volunteers, more "leverage" for donation dollars, yeh know. More "healthy" a council is, etc. I wonder if duals as MBC are bein' double counted. Nah, shame on me for even thinkin' it, eh? emb, the council should always have a separate approval process for MBCs, which is distinct from filin' registration paperwork. Not every registered person can be a MBC, and even a person registered as a MBC can't be an MBC unless/until they're approved through that separate process. Dat's where they're supposed to check things like if a person is applyin' to counsel Aviation, does he actually know anything about aviation? O'course, I think the breathing and pulse check is the norm.

Yah, it's interestin' trying to find a balance in these things, eh? Like all us old timers, Eamonn's note weaves in and out... it's about the boy, but it's also about doing the requirements well, but it's also about the boy.... Every district has its "Eagle count"/"Badge Mill" units. I can pretty much pick up an advancement report from our council registrar and identify in a quick scan which troops are which. Some of that is just different style/philosophy, eh? I think we mostly have to cut each other slack to do things the way we think is best, even when we disagree. What's hard is when it seems appropriate to "nudge" a program a bit. Yeh hope that da CO's and committees take enough interest to take the lead in "nudging" a SM to tighten up or lighten up or think a bit different when that's appropriate. Feedback is gift. It's even harder for commish's and district advancement folks, 'cause we're "outsiders". Our contact is pretty limited, and we have to be more respectful and gentle. Doin' EBOR's, I've occasionally done things like, after approving a boy, mentioned offhandedly that "gee, we usually see a bit more hours/youth independence in service projects from other troops. Are you folks happy with the level of expectation you've set?" I wish we'd do more "exchange" between troops through the district. Visitin' each other; sittin' on BOR's, etc. Sometimes when a troop thinks it's doin' great because of Eagle Count it really helps to see another troop where Eagle Quality or just plain fun-and-adventure are a bigger emphasis. Nudge 'em or tug 'em back a bit. But we really don't have any formal mechanisms for that in the BSA. Maybe it should be a rule that every unit leader has to go on at least one trip, two meetings, and one BOR for another unit every year, as an observer. Be nice to have Mr. Eagle Count spend some time with Eamonn, eh? Beavah

So is the charter rep and the CC two different positions? I always thought they where one in the same...... In most cases they're not the same person, Pack 378. In cub packs in particular, da CC is usually an active parent who has the skills to run "the administrative side" of the pack. CC's typically are parents, while COR's often aren't. CC's tend to have a higher turnover. At the Boy Scout/Venturing side yeh do see more COR's who are dual as MC or CC. Seems like as yeh go up the age groups it's a touch more common. What about MBCs(code 42 I think)? Say you are a Committee Member and an MBC, do you register as both? Nah, jstevens42. If you're a Committee Member (MC), then you can counsel merit badges as a Committee Member. The MBC registration is only for counselors who otherwise wouldn't be registered in any other capacity (so that the background check gets done on 'em). So if you're registered in a Pack as an Assistant Cubmaster, you can still be a MBC without having to do any additional registration paperwork. All that's required is approval from your district/council as a MBC. That's a separate process from registration, but yeh have to be registered as something in order to be approved. Beavah

Yah, 2Eagle, that's a perfectly reasonable way to go, eh? Essentially you're running a Venture Patrol within your troop in some ways, but chartered as a Crew so as to operate under the Venturing firearms/hunting guidelines. You'll want to keep a close watch on your time and bring in an Associate Advisor who just works with da crew in order to stay sane, but it's a nice fit. You definitely can dual as a SM and VA; don't worry about your DE's, your council registrar will be able to handle it. Your crew can also share committee members (the committee members can dual register with both the troop and the crew). The only thing that's necessary is that you have at least 5 youth members whose primary registration is with da crew. So if most of your youth are dual, I'd recommend that you put all your Venture participants as primary in the crew, just for ease/consistency sake (also because the health coverage, if your unit/council uses it, has a higher premium for the crew and yeh want to make sure it's in force for each boy). Beavah

Yah, learning any skill builds confidence and ability. In Scouting, we focus on outdoor skills, eh? Da process of learning a skill teaches us about community. How to ask for help when we don't know. How to be humble and trust others. How to listen. How to work hard. How to struggle. How to fail. How to try again. How to succeed. How to really learn rather than "fake it." What happens when we "fake it" and then need to use the skill later. How we can contribute to the group by knowing a skill well. How we pass along a skill to others. How we have patience. How we teach. How we keep learning. All that "tied up" in a simple knot, eh? O' course, to be best the skills we teach have practical usefulness and be used regularly. A taut-line hitch ceases to have the same meaning and effect if it's not needed to set up a shelter. Some other knot or skill may become a better choice for our goals. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)

Yah, no question, eh? If B-P were around now, he'd adopt some form of the camo BDU as the uniform for scouting. Practical field-wear, speaks to adventure & service, useful for tracking games, etc. Meaningful but understated rank and position insignia. Boys wanted to wear B-P's adventure uniform. Esprit de corps comes from participation - from the bond that is forged through shared adventure, hardship, and victory. The only reason a uniform gets associated with spirit in people's minds is if it's what they happened to be wearin' during their shared adventure. Current BSA uniform wouldn't meet B-P's test, nor the "worn for adventure" test. So the extent to which it's an "esprit de corps" thing is only true for us adults who remember it as an adventure uniform from our youth long ago, or us adults who served in the military who associate that uniform with esprit de corps, and want/believe we can make Scouting have that "feel". I go back to "What does the uniform actually mean to our kids?" Uniform Method is for them, after all. It should speak to them of spirit and adventure, not of obedience. I worry a lot that the kids' answer might be "It's a dumb thing some fat adults make us do because they like to show off and parade around rememberin' their glory days in the '50s." When I ask 'em, anyway, I get some version of that answer a lot more than I hear "It shows espirt de corps with the worldwide scouting movement." I think da real reason we hear so many uniformin' excuses is that they're just polite ways of sayin' "this program piece just isn't workin' for us." It's a signal that we have to do a better job/approach things differently, not that there's somethin' wrong with them. National's move to dump da Oscars in favor of active, adventurous field-wear with understated badges is IMO a good move in the right direction, though it will no doubt upset da dress-and-frills uniformin' crowd. But MO doesn't count, eh? It's what the kids think that matters. Beavah

I'm not sure if there is a shortage of DE's? If there is? I'm not sure why? I believe there is a shortage of execs in the pipeline; I know that the tenure-in-position-before-promotion rules are being waived quite often in many areas of the country in order to fill slots. Quite often! Not sure why dat is, either. O'course, there's always been a shortage of capable execs. B