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Everything posted by Beavah
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What do we look for in selecting a troop?
Beavah replied to Cubmaster Mike's topic in New to Scouting?
It made me want to send back another test for them to take, instead. Yah, I got a good chuckle of of this, eh? Probably one of the things we could do to up the participation level and perceived "value" of Scouting is to make it more exclusive. Have a whole application process. Make the parents come for interviews and the kids write essays and ask for recommendation letters from their den leaders . Call their den-mates to ask about whether they've ever been bullied by the applicant. Selection and findin' a good fit should be a two-way street, eh? Beavah -
The concern is whether it goes beyond being an issue and becomes a qualification for being a viable candidate. You seem to say yes, and then equate the test to any other issue. Yah, exactly. For some small subset of voters, religiosity may be a qualification on which they'll base their vote. For others, it might be one factor in a candidate's background that makes 'em lean toward that candidate. So what? For other subsets of voters, overt religiosity is a negative, or even a test for who not to vote for. And there's all kinds of other "tests" people apply. Just da way it is. What I can't figure out, packsaddle, is why you or anyone else seems to make an "issue" of religious faith and its relation to politics, but not all the other questions of candidate background and choice that people use as "tests." I personally don't see any difference, other than that some people want to make a special issue about religion, because da press finds it juicier or somethin'. Would we be commentin' about a Huckabee advertisement where he calls himself a "conservative leader"? Yah, perhaps da press is the issue, eh? In a Republican field distinguished by its boredom and shallow positions, maybe Romney's underwear is the only issue they can find to distinguish between candidates that has any market appeal. Pretty tellin' commentary on the Republican candidates, ain't it. Beavah
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Yah, what an interestin' idea for a project, eh? I sure get tired of sittin' on project reviews for yet another "build a park bench" project. The lad found something worthwhile and important that he's interested in, will learn a lot from, and might actually save a few lives. One that ties into Citizenship in the Community (and Communication, and ....) far better than the average project. And all da adults around are tellin' him to go build a park bench??! Our role as adults is to support kids in their efforts and dreams, not shoehorn 'em into our notion of what they should do. If we can't take on the challenge of mentoring a kid who is tryin' to do something novel that he cares about, it's time to turn in our uniforms. There's goin' to be more hurdles and need for scrutiny on this project, but so what? At least it'll be fun and different. And the lad gets credit for his work even if it fails, eh? I think yeh say "Hey, great idea!". Then you sit down with him and explain the need for a signoff from a local organization - like the school or the city/county. And you explain the need to show leadership and set your expectations for that. Try to hook 'em up with good professional folks to talk to and work with. The one thing I'd be leery of is the petitions bit. Yeh don't want an Eagle project to look like a lobbying effort. I'd take that bit out, so it feels more like a service to the city council. After that, if he wants to gather petitions on his own because they didn't listen the first time, that's fine, eh? So my vote is "Go!" What a super project, and likely to be a big influence on the lad's life and career, plus a major safety improvement for his community. Beavah
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As long as one's decision regarding any candidate is influenced to any extent by knowledge of the candidate's religion, then what is the difference between that effect and such a test? Yah, like Ed says, there's no test for religiosity. But the thing is, if yeh believe in democracy, you let people choose their candidates based on whatever test they wish. Some make da test environmental policy. Some fiscal policy. Some good looks. Some because da person is a fellow Latino. Some because da person was a successful businessman. Some because the guy hunts, or jogs. Some 'cause the name sounds familiar. Some might even flip a coin. That's freedom. That's democracy. My question is why some folk get so prejudiced about religious folk that that test is somehow a bit worse than any other test based on da person's background or choices. Beavah
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Official Answers (from some kids I was talkin' to at a school event tonight) Tenderfoot Rank Revised requirement 9: Explain the importance of the buddy system as it relates to your personal safety on outings and in your neighborhood. If I took a buddy everywhere I went around the neighborhood, everybody would think I was gay, which wouldn't help my personal safety. It might be important on an outing, or not, dependin' on how experienced I am and where the outing is. Really cool guys like SurvivorMan never have a buddy. Describe what a bully is and how you should respond to one. A bully is a jerk who pushes other kids around. Best way to respond is to punch them really hard. Repeat as necessary. Unlike all da other things the adults tell you to do instead, this one really works. Second Class Rank New requirement 8b: Explain the three Rs of personal safety and protection. Run away Return Reload if necessary. First Class Rank New requirement 12: Describe the three things you should avoid doing related to use of the Internet. 1) Never use a Microsoft product. 2) Make sure when you download music you're using your neighbor's wireless network. 3) Never talk about your girlfriend on any online site she might see.
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DESPERATE...Need input and support on serious retaliation by Council
Beavah replied to SCOUTER30's topic in Council Relations
Nah, they're not that far along yet, mmhardy. Rasmussens are just respondin' to da BSA counterclaim. But I expect that will come in due course, eh . B -
Yah, LongHaul makes out an interestin' point, and I had a PM conversation with someone else. Your unit permission slips should have HIPAA (Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act) confidentiality waiver language, and if possible a limited health care power of attorney. Some ER's I've been hearin' about have gotten all weird over this stuff, and often the ones who are the most persnickety about legalism and paperwork are the least competent in terms of medical practice. Just the way it tends to go, eh? While a good attorney might make 'em pay for their foolishness after the fact, that's no comfort for the lad. If you're with a kid in the hospital, yeh need to be able to protect the kid and manage the care until the parents can take over. That means havin' the paperwork to knock down the foolishment, eh? And speakin' up if yeh feel anything doesn't feel right, demand a second opinion, remove the kid to a different facility, whatever. Medical errors are the number one killer in hospitals. Beavah
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Yah, what eolesen and kbandit said, eh? Plus we used to also use our separate unit permission slip for summer camp as well, and we always kept those to hand. Beavah
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Which Church is next on the block? No mater what denomination you can think of, there will be something(s) that can be torn down, belittled and "Proven wrong/false or what ever. Come on now, lets keep this fair. Yah, I think this is the inevitable result of religion bein' on the "public stage" in a campaign, eh? I know plenty of folks who immediately crossed off of their list of candidates to vote for da Republicans who admitted they believed in Biblical Creation at that one debate, eh? Huckabee was one. If yeh raise your belief as a matter of record in a campaign, seems like yeh should be asked to explain that position and take heat for it. Same as if yeh raised your belief in Keynesian Economics Yeh can't say, as Romney has tried, "Vote for me, I'm a God-fearin' family man" and "Don't ask me about my religion, it's personal." That's been the difference between Kennedy's and Romney's approach, eh? Beavah
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Yah, interestin' question LongHaul. And it doesn't have to involve camp, eh? When should a unit leader take a kid in to a hospital or clinic on a troop outing? For me back when I was a unit leader in camp, I never would have referred the eyesight case to the camp first aid staff. I would have signed the lad out with a second adult and had him in the local ER. First Aid staff is just that - first aid staff. Can't expect full-out medical care from 'em. A second question is when should a unit leader call for an ambulance or a rapid evac like a helicopter? Those things are expensive, eh? Beavah
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Yah, GW, yeh know... Tryin' to dismiss Paul because yeh think he was a "tent maker" doesn't really have any traction, eh? Jesus was a carpenter. Peter and John were fishermen. Matthew was a tax collector. If yeh understood anything at all about the world, you'd understand that there is honor in doing labor with your hands, and folks with a craft or a skill are to be respected. They, more than the high and haughty who sneer at such "menial" things, make the world go 'round. Which is why it ain't surprising that God, when He has His way, chooses shepherds to be Kings, tent makers to be evangelists, carpenters to be father to his Son. If yeh want to really know what a tree is, you don't look in a dictionary, eh? Yeh go out and you look at trees. If yeh want to know what a Christian is, yeh sit and yeh listen to Christians... moms and dads and carpenters and tentmakers. Or yeh remain boisterously ignorant. Your call, eh? Beavah
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Get non-refundable payments in advance, eh? Or perhaps sit with lads and make 'em write letters of apology to the volunteer adults and youth leaders that they "blew off." Best if done durin' the fun game at a meeting, eh? Beavah
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DESPERATE...Need input and support on serious retaliation by Council
Beavah replied to SCOUTER30's topic in Council Relations
Yah, OK, this was just too bizarre a complaint, so I figured I'd take a look at it, eh? My professional life allows me access to federal filings easily (though of course they're all public record), so I pulled the amended complaint and response. Da complaint is a bit of a mess, and reads like a typical nuisance suit. Here's the highlights: * Plaintiff Rasmussen has Reynaud's disease, diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis and lupus, and uses a custom electric wheelchair and a walker for short-distance transfers. BSA Response: All we knew was that she used a wheelchair and was allergic to shellfish. * Plaintiff Rasmussen alleges she was "employed" as "Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner." (No kidding! ) She seems to claim it's employment because she was given a roundtable schedule and a job description. She claims being "terminated with discriminatory intent" by being asked to step down as Roundtable Commissioner. BSA Response: She has only served in volunteer roles, and was asked to step down because she wasn't following the Roundable Commissioner guidelines. * There's a long, meandering complaint about her treatment at the OA Ordeal weekend similar to what was described before. BSA Response: She told us she used a wheel chair; we told her we could provide a golf cart and driver, which we did, and that we would not serve shellfish. She did not make any other requests for accommodation in advance. * She claims economic losses from da BSA's discrimination because of a decline in orders for her screen print business "which she developed through contacts in Scouting." BSA Response: Her business was using pirated BSA trademarked materials, and was denied a license because it had poor credit history and no references * She claims that camp buildings are public accommodations and subject to ADA because there have been major renovations since 1992, and they do not meet the accessibility requirements of the law. BSA Response: The camp is not a place of public accommodation under ADA, and the BSA as a NFP private membership club is exempt from ADA. *** Theres an additional complaint about the Fall Council Camporee being held in an inaccessible area (she was informed in advance that it was inaccessible), and requests injunctive relief orderin' the BSA to make the woods accessible under ADA. (Nah, I'm not makin' this up!) BSA Response: The camporee was held at a public campground, not a BSA facility (No, I'm not makin' that up either!) * She's seeking injunctive relief (changes to building facilities and the woods to make them accessible), and "compensatory damages, damages for mental anguish, loss and dignity (sic) and other intangible injuries." The BSA's Counterclaim: * Defendant and her husband were simultaneously Troop CC & SM, Crew CC & SM, and Pack Trainer, Cubmaster & MC. * The units had a different bank than the Rasmussens, but the Rasmussens repeatedly deposited checks for the unit in their personal accounts. There aren't any unit financial records since August 2005. * P&K Graphics, the Rasmussen's screen print business charged high fees (up to $25 per shirt), claiming they had to pay license fees to the BSA, but were never licensed nor paid any fees. * BSA requests a court-ordered accounting, and then appropriate relief based on what that turns up. ------ Yah, hmmm.... So clearly, this all turns around her bad experience at Ordeal, eh? Plus a lot of personal animosity toward some fellow folks in her council. But a bad experience does not a civil case make. I don't foresee da plaintiff prevailing, eh? Beavah -
At least Ed is himself a Christian, eh? Seems like that opinion is more worthwhile than that of someone who admits he isn't a Christian, and doesn't buy into / understand Christianity. I remember a year or two back the Catholic Church said they were no longer recognizing Mormon baptism, because Mormon baptism clearly didn't mean the same thing as baptism to da rest of Christianity. IIRC, Salt Lake issued a statement that they weren't offended at all, and actually agreed. So it doesn't seem like there's any dispute here among the players, only among da outsiders who understand neither Mormons nor Christians Beavah
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From the Berkeley and San Jose papers: Eugene Austin Evans, the Berkeley scoutmaster who sued the city after it refused a free berth to a Sea Scout ship because of the organizations anti-gay policies, was arrested Tuesday on six counts of child sexual abuse. Another 18 counts were added later by the Alameda County District Attorneys office, charging ongoing acts with four youths. The crimes were allegedly carried out on the troops ship after scout meetings. Berkeley Police Youth Services Detail investigators served warrants at several locations, including Evans home in Kensington, said Sgt. Mary Kusmiss, the department spokesperson. Evans' neighbor Rory Fischer said he often saw youngsters at the house working on a small boat. Merlyn, some of the things you mention, like a work party or "practice", don't require two-deep under scouting rules (or under soccer team rules, or....). An outing does, if that's what a driving trip is. So we find a child molester broke a rule. The points are that 1) the molestation occurred in private, after events, at multiple locations. That's how predators work, eh? Just the way eolsen describes. No regulation is goin' to stop that, and its darn hard for parents or any supervisor to catch it. 2) the BSA is not the supervisor of unit activities, the Chartered Organization is. So even granting everything you're saying, there just isn't any BSA fault in the matter, beyond what we might do better to teach parents and kids about recognizin' and reportin'. Sometimes da only person to blame is the bad guy. Beavah
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Eagle Scout does not want Court of Honor
Beavah replied to gwd-scouter's topic in Advancement Resources
Yah, I should mention that there's another case dat's possible, eh? Sometimes, troops make the families pay for / run their own ECOH's. I know of a bunch of cases under that setup where a lad and his family opt out. They don't want (or can't afford) to put on the "wedding reception". Sometimes it's worry about not keepin' up with the Joneses, who just did the lavish ECOH for their son; sometimes it's just not bein' willing to give the time or expense. That's especially true when an ECOH falls near graduation parties and such. B -
Eagle Scout does not want Court of Honor
Beavah replied to gwd-scouter's topic in Advancement Resources
Yah, it's fairly common among mature kids, eh? The award means something to them in the journey, but they're not seekin' recognition. I always tell 'em that a COH is an act of service. They don't need it, but the community needs it. It's a way of providin' an example for younger scouts, and a way to thank the SM, ASMs, parents and parent volunteers for all their efforts over da years. Yeh say "thank you" to those people by giving them a chance to celebrate. Beavah -
I was readin' a headline today about President Bush takin' credit for the gradual decline in teen drug use. Of course, when yeh read the actual study you discover that the decline began in the mid-1990s and has been progressin' ever since, and probably has nuthin' to do with any administration policy whatsoever. I wish that just once, a politician would announce good news and not try to take credit for something that wasn't his (or hers). The economy is doing better... thank you to the hard-working men and women in the country. Thank you to businessmen who are responsible and don't cheat. Thank you to people who save money and invest it. Thank you to bankers who are responsible with loans and don't go after short-term gains. Thank you to the inventors and creative folks. You guys did it, not me. Kids do better on tests... thank you to the hard-working teachers, and to parents who spend their time readin' to their kids and makin' sure they do their homework. You did it, not me. etc. etc. Fact is, presidents and politicians have a heck of a lot less control over things than they claim. I wish they'd acknowledge that, rather than takin' credit where none is due. Maybe that's somethin' to teach our kids, eh? Best for the SPL not to take personal credit for da work of the team, or for the weather, or for just plain good luck. Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)
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Your religion should only be important to yourself and no one else. ? ? ? ? No, that's your underwear. If you're truly religious, then that's the religio, the bond or rule by which you live. That says more about you than your clothes, your race, your nationality, and your background/experience. Yeh can even see it here in terms of how different people approach scoutin' questions. Those from more centralized-authority religious traditions tend to view BSA materials more like centralized authority; those from fundamentalist backgrounds tend to be fundamentalist about G2SS and the scout handbook, eh? Our atheists like Merlyn tend to be overly legal, while mainline protestant types tend to err more toward personal conscience . Da problem is that most folks runnin' for public office aren't really religious. They're just puttin' on the costume. Dat's probably why Huckabee comes across better in Iowa than Romney, eh? Not because Romney's a Mormon, but because for Romney religion sure looks like it's a costume. And that says a lot about a person, eh? More than his underwear. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)
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The nit pickers will remind you that the requirement states that the scout participate in a scoutmaster conference but that there is no pass/fail component that the scoutmaster approves the scouts advancement. This is sorta true for da lower ranks, eh? (But not really. ) It isn't true for Eagle, though. The Scoutmaster has to sign the Eagle Application expressin' his/her approval of the lad for the rank. The Scoutmaster can refuse. If the Scoutmaster refuses, the scout can appeal to the unit committee. Unit committee get the info and makes the call whether to allow the boy to go to a BOR with their recommendation but not the SM's. If the council does unit-level EBOR's, they'll sometimes do this in the context of an EBOR (to save time), but that's not the formal procedure. Either way, the scout next appeals to the district, who will consider the SM and Committee refusal to sign the application. So this gives yeh 2 "formal" ways to address the boy's behavior. One by the SM, one by the unit committee before it goes higher. Those should be formal, eh? With some time for tempers to cool and people to think in between. Beavah
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What do you do when a scout has finished everything, but just isn't "there" as far as getting the highest rank BSA has to offer. My usual advice is "fix how yeh view Star and Life rank." Yeh have to give good feedback to a lad while he's growin', and while he still has time to work on things. Your expectations for Scout Spirit and Service and Responsibility should become clear for Star, and crystal clear for Life. At some level, it ain't fair to the lad to change the rules of the game on him at the end. So yeh might want to let it go. But if not, I think yeh get the CC and the SPL and you have a Behavior SM conference with him. Nuthin' about Eagle, just about expectations and his behavior. Spell out what you've seen, spell out how it hurts the troop, be clear that yeh expect better from him. If his behavior is really that bad, let him know that other adults have suggested that he be removed from the troop because he's so disruptive/such a poor example. The tellin' thing for me here is that you've been SM for a year and seen this goin' on, but you still "have not had much contact with the boy at all." What are yeh waitin' for?! An invitation? Kids slackin' off and acting out are often asking a simple question: "Does the SM care?" Show him you do. Ain't got nuthin' to do with Advancement. It's an Adult Association method issue. My 2cents. Beavah
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Yah, packsaddle, your knowledge in this area is a bit scary, eh? And no sooner did yeh speak it then confirmation came out! The human race has experienced more genetic evolution in the recent stretch of time than ever before. We're evolving at nearly 100 times the "normal" rate! It's that alien DNA, I'm tellin' ya! Wish they hadn't violated ET-LNT! http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/071211-human-evolution.html Beavah
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Newly discovered human remains are a separate class. Yah, now there's one I've never covered in teachin' LNT. I wonder how it would apply to Extraterrestrial LNT?
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The remainder of that thread was a fairly clear demonstration (Beavah's claims of brotherhood notwithstanding) that little differences in religious beliefs create very large separations between people. ???? Nah. A few disagreements about terms and some heated arguments. Yeh should see the enthusiasts debate the merits of the Packers vs. the Bears. B
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Well then, the BSA's policies are even worse than I thought. It sounds like the council would take the word of one person (Evans) that there would be another adult along. That's no verification at all. Yah, again as Oak Tree indicates, the BSA is not the owner/operator/supervisor of unit programs or unit scouters. That would be the Chartered Organization. In this case, the Sea Explorer Farallon Corporation, its officers and directors. Only one registered adult leader is required for a unit; they can go on outings by bringing the parent(s) of participants. Regardless, it seems clear from da press statements and search warrants that the abuse occurred after meetings were over and at other non-sea-scouting venues. That's how molesters work, eh? No point in molesting on a Sea Scout trip with other adults around (besides, you've got to sail the boat). Yeh invite a lad to stay late to work on somethin', yeh go to the family's house for dinner and molest the kid in the basement (like the guy in Idaho), yeh have the kid over to mow your lawn or walk your dog. Once people become a "trusted adult", the barriers are down. That's why policy really ain't that effective at safety or protection, eh? Education and alert citizenship and judgment and open communication are better. Can the BSA perhaps do a better job of education instead of policy? Maybe. We can always try to improve. That's what's behind the new T-2-1 requirements, eh? But there just ain't any BSA culpability here. Beavah