Beavah

Yah, 1Vigil... One of da things you (and other units) should consider is helpin' with the burial ceremonies for veterans. Check out http://xeml.buglesacrossamerica.org/index.xeml Havin' an honor guard, Taps, and/or rifle salute can mean a lot to the family of the veteran, and is somethin' that units with trained honor guards can easily handle. Beavah

Yah, donert, there's just so much in your posting that is a bit "off" it's hard to comment, eh? "Legal" and G2SS don't belong in the same sentence, eh? What's "legal" or what defines "liability" has nothing to do with any BSA document. Legal is defined by legislators and courts. Liability always belongs to those who had a duty of care, and their supervisors. So for unit operations, liability always falls to the unit leaders and Chartered Organization. Liability is not defined by anything "written verbatim", with da exception of states where liability waivers have statutory effect. Guide to Safe Scouting is a guidebook that helps Chartered Organizations in their operations and care for kids. It's a decent guide. G2SS doesn't apply to kids directly, nor does it have anything to do with disciplinary action for kids. Rules for kid behavior should be based on the Scout Oath and Law, and disciplinary action had better come in to play for a lot more things than what G2SS describes. If yeh give us a real example of what you're talkin' about, we might be able to be more helpful. Since this question wasn't about insurance and that's been well-covered in other threads, let's keep it focused, eh? Beavah

Yah, too bad da city council isn't up-to-date in its science, eh? There's only eight planets now, eh? Beavah

Is it not to give your bread to those in need, and to let the poor who have no resting-place come into your house? to put a robe on the unclothed one when you see him, and not to keep your eyes shut for fear of seeing his flesh?" Yah, Eamonn, but that obligation of faith is a personal one, eh? We're called to personal charity. To my mind "government charity" doesn't meet that obligation, because it allows us to feel good without ever lookin' the person in need in the face or lettin' him anywhere near our neighborhood let alone into our house. "Keeping our eyes shut for fear of seeing his flesh" as your friend Isaiah puts it so poetically. Just like with kids, service to others involves gettin' to know 'em well enough to decide what would really be of service. Lots of times, saying "no" and making 'em live with the consequences of their choices is the right way to love and care for children, eh? No less so for adults. But yah, sure, I'd entertain your notion of work camps for some folks, eh? Provides shelter and food, and a more stable environment for the kids, while demandin' hard work and forcibly changing bad habits. You're sentenced to 'em until you can hold a real job for 6 months (with a good employer recommendation) and find housing of your own. Beavah

Sorry... I had never thought but to buy MB award cards. Yah, da differences in different areas are kinda funny, eh? Around here, we're the same as SA's area. Blue cards aren't required, but da Award Cards are treated as official records, and given out at COH's. Look nicer, too, than da ratty old blue card ! B

Yah, there's no question that there are a lot of families in need, eh? And some folks just get down on their luck. Loss of a job in a weak labor market can put the house at risk and blow through a young family's savings in no time. But I, too, have seen my share of abuse and some outright fraud in the welfare system. Problem is, government is just plain lousy at helpin' people. If you're just dolin' out money according to some formula, then it's guaranteed that people will game the system. Lay down a set of rules, and anybody with a brain will figure out how to use da rules to get the most. What we want to do, I think, is to exercise judgment on individual cases, eh? To say to one: "Yep, we understand, here's some help to get yeh by and some contacts to get you goin' again." To say to another "Yah, well, we're goin' to make you sit through 6 months of trainin' on personal financial management and then we'll help you once. Blow it again and you're on your own." And to a third "Nope, sorry, you're just scammin' the system. Go get a real job." Without the paperwork and bureaucracy, which makes it hard for someone strugglin' to navigate the system and only adds to the overhead costs. And yeh probably need folks from outside da neighborhood/area to be administering things, eh? Otherwise, with that much money floatin' around, there's always going to be cronyism and corruption. That's where I think funscout is right. Individuals and small charities that aren't burdened by law and entitlement mentality do a better job than government ever will. Yeh need room for judgment and "tough love," and yeh have to be motivated by a sense of Mission, not regulation. Social security has always been a Ponzi scheme. My favorite these days are da "Social Security Supplement" payments to everybody from immigrants to drug addicts. Friend of mine has a 23-year-old nephew who gets $2K or so a month from SS because he's been "disabled" by his drug addiction... which he uses to help finance his drug addiction. Government has a place. It's needed to provide safety, a transparent and fair monetary/economic system, and infrastructure like roads. But it should get out of da charity business. Beavah

Yah, what Scott and da others said, eh? Childhood is short, and unit scoutin' is where the action is. Sounds like both your son and your pack need you there. Philmont can wait. Just mention to your district folks that you really appreciated the recommendation, and you'd like to be considered again in the future. Beavah

Yah, I think SA is lookin' for the white card ("Merit Badge Pocket Certificate"), not the blue card ("Merit Badge Application"). But I don't think SA is lookin' for a PDF of the white card (which is probably not kosher anyway, it bein' an official product and all ), he's lookin' for an MSWord template that will let him print on a sheet of perforated white cards that he's already purchased from Supply Division. Yeh know, to make 'em all neat and cool for his next Court of Honor! Sorry, SA, I don't have one, but hopefully someone does! Beavah

Yah, Eagledad, again... I apologize if anything I said was taken to be personally offensive by anybody here. That was not my intent. But I do reserve da right to be critical of my government and the politicians who are (or wish to be) runnin' it. My effort was perhaps an impassioned response to funscout's assertion that Bill Clinton was responsible for 9/11. I never voted for Clinton and supported his impeachment, but I believe in' bein' at least as critical of my own guys as I am of da other side. For my part, I can honestly say I've expressed my views in private letters to our "leaders" long before expressin' them in public, and gave 'em lots of benefits of the doubt. I wonder if everybody can say da same about the folks they criticize in public, eh? Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

Yeah, only in Beavah's imaginary world would he rather see the terrorist defendants plead not guilty, go to court, cost the taxpayers millions of dollars, and possibly get off on a technicality than see them plead guilty and to to prison. Yah, da point was that every time a terrorist suspect has pled "not guilty" in the last 8 years, the trial has been bungled by da DOJ and they have gotten off, eh? And personally, I'm a bit embarrassed by some of their plea deals. Young, dangerous terrorists out in 7? And every bizarre effort to proceed through extra-judicial methods has been overturned. Not a legal record anybody should be proud of. Who's Krugman?? Give me a break... Googled him. A NYTimes columnist? Sorry, I don't subscribe. Never read him. Only guy at da NYTimes I've ever read is Friedman, who is fairly knowledgeable on da mideast and not very knowledgeable on other things Beavah

Yah, BA, thanks for da links, eh? Not a single successful prosecution listed. Some guilty pleas by oddballs and fanatics (most of whom were less frightnin' and less well equipped than an average urban gang), but not one successful trial in the list you provided. And some of 'em are goin' to be out of jail before we're out of Iraq. BTW, who is Kruger? Our small-town newspaper doesn't carry too many talkin' head commentators, and I never watch TV news. Is he one of them? My "mainstream media" for international stuff is usually The Economist. Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

My bad Beavah, you meant Incompetence, bumbling idiocy, Near total disregard, No strategic sense whatsoever, dodge the last war and fail History class, neo-con chicken hawks, current line of clowns, blind followership in the good way. Yah, those were comments about da government, eh? I sorta figure that criticizin' the government, even in very pointed terms, is always fair game . One of those First Amendment, American-type things. Especially seein' as how I'm a fairly conservative, Republican-type voter who helped get 'em elected. I'll stand by "incompetence" and "bumbling". "No strategic sense" and "total disregard" too, eh? But "current line of clowns" was John-in-KC's. I was just echoin'. I'm happy to listen to an argument that they ain't incompetent, too. Im just hopin' it's better than "you must be listening to the Mainstream Media". Beavah

Does anyone have any other reasons why the Health Officer could not call 911? Yah, I dislike rules like this. Another shot at substitutin' rules for judgment. That bein' said, some camps in some places have their own medical protocols in place, or prior letters of agreement with respondin' agencies and providers. So, for example, a camp might have a private contract with a local ambulance company and should use that first instead of county dispatch. Some camps have EMT's on staff (perhaps the ranger) who are operatin' under county medical control and through a memorandum of agreement are to be the first responders at the camp. That kind of stuff. Beavah

Yah, Eagledad. I was respondin' to an argument, eh? It's a common enough argument bein' made a bunch of different places, comparin' critiquing government actions to the weather. "Bush wasn't responsible for a Hurricane", etc. Several folks on this thread parroted that argument. I even made a somewhat different version of it in the "I wish" thread, eh? I dislike that argument sometimes, in part because it's often used fallaciously just to belittle the points being made by others. Same with callin' someone else's argument an uninformed product of da Media (of one flavor or another). If we're honest, we get almost all of our information through some form of media. I was not addressin' any person, by name or otherwise. I was addressin' an argument being made by many people, most not on these forums, eh?. I'm sorry if it came across differently, and I apologize profusely for any unintended slight. I assure yeh, though, if I want to address a particular person, I'll use their name, and I'll try to do it in private. Much like a proper SM conference, as you say. Otherwise, I'm just debatin' the idea, and I sorta figure any of us who put our ideas out are askin' or at least open to comment and critique, eh? Beavah

Speaking of accountablility, you posted the administration hadn't prosecuted a single terrorist, in 8 years! Yet I gave you a list of several. Nah, yeh gave a list of cases. Now, which ones were a successful prosecution, as opposed to cases like Lindh's that were bungled so badly that 80-90% of the substantive charges were thrown out, and they settled for weak plea bargains? I didn't go through your whole list, but I think the only genuine trial and conviction in the lot was Reid, eh? And he stood up in open court and admitted to bein' a terrorist at war with da U.S., so yeh can hardly credit that conviction to the DOJ, eh? Sending too few troops? We wiped out Saddam's Army in the blink of an eye! Yah, and then the enemy wiped out Iraq's oil and electrical infrastructure which was part of our mission to preserve. So much so that oil production I don't think has yet recovered from pre-war levels. This stuff gets taught at Army War College, eh? It's known science. So many boots on da ground for X sized population, or yeh get this level of insurgency. If SecDef and Bush had listened to the people who knew what they were talkin' about... but nah. They had "faith." Beavah

Yah, OGE... And then there's the fact that the sittin' incumbents functionally have a controlling vote in their state's political party, and so have quite a bit of control over funding and "rules" for runnin'. Not to mention access to a much wider donor pool and name recognition. Better media contacts. Free mail to constituents. I don't think any of my Washington critters (Senators or rep.) are great guys, eh? Just who I was stuck votin' for as da lesser of two weevils Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)

I knew when the list started "Micromanaging the war effort so that they let Osama get away at Tora Bora", I didn't need to go any farther. No need to read da liberal press, eh? I had good friends servin' on the ground in Afghanistan in that operation. It is fascinatin' that some neo-conservatives' response to criticizin' the administration over their tactical and strategic choices is the same as complainin' about the weather. Gotta admit, that attitude of blind followership really scares me. And I'm a lifelong Republican who used to agree with Rooster Conservative values include a distrust of the competence of big government in most areas, not blind trust. Conservative values include accountability. At least this old Beavah's do. B(This message has been edited by Beavah)

Yah, mmmmm.... I think this is one for your son to work out with his SM, if da "Eagle Advisor" seems to be throwin' up unnecessary hurdles. Of course, the man is just an advisor, eh? So your son can put together a proposal and take it to the SM, Committee, and district without his approval. Without knowin' your lad and seein' the project, it's hard to say from afar what the issues are. I can certainly find some "prefab bench kits" that an average teen could assemble easily with a buddy, which wouldn't meet most of our standards for an Eagle project for a 17 year old HS senior. Now you mention welding, which would be more work, but it's probably work done by one experienced welder, eh? So your son gets the parts, someone welds them, and he plops 'em down... that also wouldn't meet the requirements. That havin' been said, there's also bench projects like this that involve some fundraisin' and real leadership in assembling and mounting. As others have mentioned, there's no "magical number of hours" for an Eagle project. Troops do use guidelines to give kids an idea, which sounds like what your son's troop is doin'. They didn't say his project had to be 400-600 hours, eh? Just that that was da range that was normal for them. That's a troop with high expectations of kids, and they should be respected for that. Around here, 14-year-olds tend to have projects in the 50-150 hour range, and 17-year-olds tend to have projects in the 150-300 hour range, but it varies a lot more by troop expectations than it does by anything else. Most of us want to be sure the project is a "stretch" for each lad. Finally, sometimes when troop leaders are draggin' their feet on a project approval, it's because there are also issues with other requirements like Scout Spirit and leadership, eh? Scouters usually move heaven and earth to help a kid who has been a regular, positive force in the troop. But like most humans, they don't turn their lives upside down to help a lad who perhaps hasn't met da other expectations for Eagle in their eyes. Just somethin' for your son to think about before he meets with his SM. That's where da next stop on the trail is, though. I think your son needs to set up an appointment with his SM. Bring his project proposal, his uniform, his best attitude, and lay things out and ask for help. Beavah

Romney's statement on da BSA's policies: B

Nuthin' wrong with goin' after Saddam. Or Bin Laden. My problem with da Bush administration is incompetence. Sendin' too few troops. Micromanaging the war effort so that they let Osama get away at Tora Bora. Shiftin' effort from Afghanistan to allow Bin Laden refuge and the Taliban to re-form and begin new operations. Complete, bumbling idiocy in Iraqi "nation building." Micromanaging anti-insurgent operations in Iraq (how many times did we invade Fallujah?). Complete, bumbling idiocy when it comes to takin' care of our injured veterans. Near total disregard for our men & women in the services, especially the National Guard & Reserves, with extended deployments, stop-losses, and all the rest. Total financial mismanagement tryin' to fund a war on a credit card. No strategic sense whatsoever in pursuin' energy independence when it's easier to line da pockets of cronies and friendly despots. Complete, bumbling idiocy when it comes to foreign affairs. Complete, bumbling idiocy when it comes to the DOJ - not one successful terrorist prosecution in 8 years! Not one! But lots of time spent scannin' my phonecalls for key words. And a Republican congress that set new records for pork-barrel set asides and jumpin' in bed with lobbyists. Hopefully this next time around we'll get a President who didn't dodge the last war and fail History class. You know, someone with integrity and a brain. May the good Lord preserve us from da neo-con chicken hawks. I'll happily vote a politically conservative Wiccan if they demonstrate integrity and intelligence, and can refrain from tryin' to make me believe that my grocer might be a terrorist so I should submit to searches when I try to buy a loaf of bread. Can't say that I'm seein' it though, in the current line of clowns. Beavah

Yah, youth elections if yer goin' to use 'em are hard things to manage well. It takes some savvy to recognize when yeh should use runoff elections, or how to "nudge" here and there, or when to go with appointments or whatnot. Yeh just demonstrated one of a bout 8 dozen different less-than-desirable election outcomes. In this case, the lads are treatin' elections as a game, to be "gamed" and won, rather than as a calling to service. Put that in your notes as somethin' for them to learn down the road. How often are your elections? In other words, how long can yeh live with less-than-desirable without it impactin' program too severely? I think in general, yeh let things stand without comment. Your new SPL can try to order the older boys to do everything, but that ain't gonna last long, eh? What's gonna happen is he's quickly going to experience what leadership really means in terms of work and criticism from his peers. It ain't orderin' people about and playin' one group against another. Yeh have to let him experience that, full force, to da point of frustration and a tear or two ... but not complete discouragement. Provide good "Roses and Thorns" opportunities so that criticism comes in a controllable and helpful way. Yeh also have to let it go long enough so that everybody in the troop sees the consequences of their choices, eh? One of two things will happen. After quite a struggle and adaptation and a lot of stretchin', the new SPL will grow into the job, and grow a lot from it in da process. Or the new SPL isn't mature enough yet to do that, and he's gonna sink. You know the lad better than we do, eh? From what yeh say though about how he got elected, I'd guess he might be in the second group . If he is, you'll be sorely tempted to bail him out and support him and be more adult run. Fight the temptation. Let him sink, let him and the troop feel the stress and even a failure or two! Just don't let anyone drown . Have a plan in your head for conducting new elections in 3-6 months, and how you're gonna handle requests for "recall" if that comes up. Make sure it's a respectful, well-managed process. Then be happy, eh? It's through this kind of stuff that the kids learn! Beavah

Yah, it sure seems like if da community agency signs off on the project, that covers whether they think it's worthwhile, eh? No need for Scouters to get involved in that judgment. As for the other issues, seems like that's what the approval process is for, eh? Just like for a traditional project, there's things for adults to consider, especially safety but also other issues. Still seems like a lad should be encouraged to pursue somethin' of interest to him, and we should be helpin' not throwin' up roadblocks and objections. Youth leadership and all that, eh? Beavah

Gawd help me for sayin' it. Give me da tax-and-spend Democrats any day over da current borrow-and-spend pork barrel "set-aside" Republicans. Funscout, your Republicans may have kept taxes down, but they've darn near bankrupted the country. For those of us livin' near Canada, our purchasing power across the border has declined by more than 50% in recent years - and that's goin' to hit you, too, soon enough, given how much oil and manufactured goods we import, eh? Savin' 10% on taxes and losin' 50% on purchasing power, now that's modern neo-con Republican thinkin'. Just wait until the inheritance tax goes away and your kids find out that da Republicans have left them with Trillions on Trillions of dollars of debt. Besides, don't yeh think your kids should earn their own way in da world? At very least, a change in administration might at least get us folks who are competent in their fields. I'd rather have someone competent who I disagreed with than a bunch of nincompoops who agreed with me on an issue. Yah, don't be scared, funscout. Manipulatin' fear has been the only thing left in da Republican campaign strategy in the last 6 years. You're bein' used. Be concerned, but be hopeful, and be strong, eh? Don't be afraid when your fellow citizens toss da bums out. Beavah (who's thinkin' of votin' Blue for the first time in his life) (This message has been edited by Beavah)

What then has the scout accomplished? Where is the benefit to the community? I'd hate to see us start sayin' to kids that the development of knowledge and information isn't of benefit to the community. A heck of a lot of us get paid for that sort of "benefit" every day. He's conducted a traffic study which may help da school in developing its own rules for traffic flow, or even which determined that the expense of a light wasn't worth it. Beavah

Yah, packsaddle, it's just not interestin', eh? I don't buy da news media blather about "playing cards." Huckabee plays the religion card, Obama plays the race card yada yada blah blah blah we have to fill air time despite bein' air heads, yack yack yack. Of course there's a subset of voters who are more comfortable with Huckabee's folksy Christian Minister schtick, and at least it's genuine, eh? Da guy really thinks that way in part. And when we hit the western states that elect folks like Orrin Hatch and such, we'll find a subset of voters who are more comfortable with pullin' da lever for a fellow Mormon. And yeh can't be mayor of Detroit unless you're black, or (until recently) mayor of Boston unless you're Irish. Happily, da nation is bigger than Iowa or Utah or Detroit or Boston. So on a bigger stage, such litmus tests become just a factor that some consider, and others un-consider, and others ignore. Can't see where it's a deal, let alone a big deal, in anything other than a really boring news cycle. Me personally, I can't vote for Romney because I think he'd sell his soul and every policy to get elected and stay in power. Da man runs before each prevailin' wind, navigatin' by poll numbers. Mayhap that's why Huckabee is lookin' more attractive to folks in Iowa, eh? Ain't the fact he's a Christian so much as he looks more honest. Beavah