Beavah

The thought also occurs to me that perhaps this SM is one of those full-of-hot-air types who likes to brag on his Scouts' manly-men outdoor expertise when reality is something entirely different. Yah, or maybe he's one of those wonderful Scoutmasters who is able to pull off a truly wonderful program that leaves da rest of us in awe. Perhaps because he keeps to the Scout Oath and Law and is friendly, courteous, and kind to his fellow Scoutmasters. I reckon all of us brag on our lads more than a little. Honestly, shortridge has good questions. I'd love to learn from this SM. I've been around a lot of years, but I always learn a few new ideas and tricks from every SM that runs a successful program. It would be great to buy him a cup of coffee and hear what he thinks and how he sets up his kids to run such a range of activities. My guess is that like lots of things, yeh really don't have to worry a whole lot about all da adult-driven rules and exceptions and what-ifs and such. If the boys are proud of their program, then I reckon they buy in and the culture of the unit takes care of the rest. No need for an adult to "turn down" a scout if the scout considers it a matter of his own honor to live up to the ideals and expectations of his group. B

Yah, now you're all talkin'. Been trying to steer folks to think differently about camp for years. It is an uphill fight, though, largely because earnin' MBs the right way has become a relatively rare thing in a lot of places. Folks just don't even know how. So instead they rely on camp and those darn MB Mill Weekends. Takes a lot of deprogramming and re-education to get 'em to the point of usin' the program properly and well. And in these days of multi-council camps, even if by some herculean effort yeh got folks in your council on board, all those out-of-council folks that yeh need to keep your camp full would still be lost. I completely agree. Camp might start MBs to be finished later (or perhaps finish MBs started earlier) and the lads would get a lot more out of it. Plus fewer badges, taught well by folks who really knew that material, would be so much stronger than many badges taught by folks who have to fill in on some things that they don't know as well. Beavah

Yah, there can be other things in play too, eh? Some councils put limits on the number of merit badges individual MBCs can counsel. They just don't accept application for more than five or whatnot. I think it's silly myself, and no doubt within a few minutes of this post someone will holler that ACP&P says there is no limit on the number of badges a person can counsel, but the world is a big and diverse place, eh? Sometimes in such an environment a Scoutmaster might be perfectly qualified to counsel Personal Fitness, but won't be signed up for it because da troop needs a Snow Sports MBC and that fills out his five, eh? So Mr. Jones signs up for Personal Fitness, but he accepts Mr. Scoutmaster's word on fulfillin' those requirements as gold. Again, no harm, no foul. I like da council that did the obvious thing and just signed up all SM's as counselors for core outdoor MBs like Camping. Seems to make sense. So bearshark, it just depends, eh? Gold standard is whether the lads get the full benefit of the experience and mentoring of someone who knows the topic well. Everything after that is just bureaucracy and paperwork. Beavah

Yah, hi bearshark. Kenk gave yeh the correct answer. Technically, only a registered MBC for that badge can approve any requirements. Practically speakin' I reckon a fair number of units are a bit looser than that, particularly when it comes to something like Camping MB. Lots of the requirements for Camping MB are goin' to be stuff that the SM sees in person, eh? And stuff that the MBC might not be around for. So particularly for that badge, when there are a few remaining requirements like nights camping or goin' on a campout that did some rappelling or whatnot, I expect it's fairly common for a SM to sign for those residual requirements and just submit the badge as complete. No harm no foul. Now generally speakin', I think it's a bad idea for parents or other close relatives to ever sign anything off for a lad in Boy Scouting. Just raises too many issues, and deprives a lad of the experience workin' with other adults that the other boys are getting. Some troops effectively forbid it unless dad is really the only available counselor for a rare badge like Atomic Energy. But it's not forbidden by the BSA. But carte blanche? for any merit badge? No. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)

But if he quits today it's on him, not me. Yah, that's a bit of a cop-out, mate. Kids aren't stupid, and they love and want the approval of their parents. If you in any way begrudge him the notion of being a scout or you light up more and praise him a bit more enthusiastically for playing ball, he will pick that up in a heartbeat. At this age, he will do whatever he think pleases you. Down the road, as a teenager he'll assert himself more, but not now. So given that he's expressed strong interest in staying in scouting, if he quits today or in the next year it's on you. Just da way it is as a parent. FYI, HE wants to be an Eagle Scout, I want him to be happy. I want him to graduate from College. Yah, hmmm. Now let's think about that, eh? I'm willing to bet all my wages for the month that you want him to do more than graduate from any old college. My guess as a caring and concerned parent is that you want him to get into the best college he can, eh? In fact, when it comes down to it, I'm willing to bet that you'd actively discourage him from going to Podunk U. just because that's the easiest way to get a degree, and that you'd take out a second mortgage on your house and work a second job to put him through Yale (or UConn ) if he got in and wanted to go there, eh? Both offer a B.A., but you'd want the best quality and reputation for your kid. Same with scouting, eh? Every troop offers an Eagle, but shoppin' around for who gets it for you the fastest and cheapest is like lookin' for the college that offers the fastest mail-order degree. Just doesn't make any sense. If you want your son to be happy in college, you want him to find a college that is a good fit for him. A place that offers a fine program, a high level of challenge, strong and responsible fellow students, good reputation, etc. Your son potentially will spend more years in a scout troop than in college, and that will be during the more formative years of his life. Treat the lad the way he deserves. Act like a responsible parent, and help him find a strong troop. Beavah

Yah, ReneScout, what badges do yeh think you're likely to be teachin'? Lots of ideas are badge-specific. The more general ideas are things like "talk less, coach more." Your value to the boys is directly dependent on how much time they get to spend trying things out and playing around and learning, not how much time you spend teaching. That takes some creativity and more planning time, to think of a series of activities that build understanding and skill. A good way to think about things is that you should be more like a soccer coach than a school teacher. Yeh should be running MB practice, not class, and yeh check on their ability when they play the game by themselves, not by giving 'em a test. Beavah

But slight of hand manuvers are NOT the Scouting way. Yeh have actually attended a summer camp a time or two, right? I think we all recognize that this just isn't possible at camp without some sleight of hand. Let's even take John-in-KC's figures for Bartle (which is a very fine camp, BTW). At 1500 campers per week, yeh can probably figure that the Nature area will see at least 1500 MBs, probably more. Each Nature MB typically has 10 or so requirements, often with sub-parts. So that's probably around 20,000 different things that are supposed to be examined individually. They've got a handful of counselors and a few directors. Call it 8 or so people, round up to 10. So each person has to conduct 2,000 checkouts. Workin' a ten hour day, that's 200 per hour or over three per minute. Not counting the time they spend doin' instruction, eh? No question, the summer camp MB experience almost everywhere is but a shadow of what it should be. Also no question that if we want lads to get MBs at summer camp, we have to cut corners. Or triple camp fees while cuttin' number of campers in half . Beavah

Hi relapse, Yeh might want to check out the materials on the National Association of United Methodist Scouters pages, eh? They provide a job description for a COR in da United Methodist tradition at http://www.naums.org/NAUMS/coordinator_of_scouting_ministri.htm You might use that to spur a conversation with the pastor. Generally speakin' in larger institutional churches like da Methodists, there is a real premium to having a regular church staff member as COR. It really keeps the unit "plugged in" to the church, and avoids a lot of the communication and misunderstanding and resentment issues that can come up otherwise. "THOSE Boy Scouts are using OUR facilities" type stuff. And when big-picture issues come up, staff members easily can refer it to the rest of the staff at a staff meeting or direct to da pastor, eh? If yeh don't have a staff member, you should at least consider a church council member. This choice is really up to your church council or pastor, eh? But gettin' them to think about the job description a bit can often help 'em think about how to integrate scouting better into their youth work, and who the right person would be for COR. Beavah

Yah, NealeonWheels, finish da paragraph, eh? The function of the district advancement committee is to motivate and train unit leaders and unit committee members in the advancement program. This should be done under the direction of the council advancement committee and with the cooperation of the commissioner staff and the district training committee. The district advancement committee also should work closely with the district executive. It's not a solo endeavor of the DAC, it's a collaborative effort of his/her committee in conjuction with lots of other volunteers and the DE. In this case, where it involves makin' suggestions to a unit leader about a unit practice, it's more a commissioner thing. "I was just conducting spontaneous training!" is a humorous bit of workaround, and not a serious foul of course, if conducted in that spirit and good humor. Point again is not to read isolated sentences to quote things at people, but to read da whole chapters alongside other resources like the District Committee stuff and understand how all the pieces fit and da system works. Yah, but I see this has now become a Kudu thread. Ah well. That'll be the end of it. I assume his point is that the SM's position isn't unreasonable, when looked at from the point of view of the whole scouting movement. But perhaps before it goes off that way we should ask ghermanno if he's gotten what he needs? Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

Yah, I gotta agree with Lisabob, eh? This was not the place for another Kudu Woodbadge rant. Apparently in staying true to his version of traditional Scouting, Kudu forgot the whole Helpful, Friendly, Courteous routine . Daddy_O, do yeh have any other questions for us? Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)

Yah, John-in-KC, he's done that, eh? He's told the SM the rules, which the SM already knew. And even that wasn't part of his job as DAC, eh? That would have been a commissioner's or CC/COR role, not the DAC's. Ghermanno's job as DAC is to support that unit and SM. Make sure the MBCs in the district are well-qualified and that the list is accurate so that unit gets good MBCs when they send their boys out. Make sure the district side of da Eagle process isn't a mess so that when that troop's boys come for Eagle it isn't the district that's in the way. Help the cub packs with what they need for Arrow of Light so that troop gets good boys in as recruits. Arrange council recognition events for boys and adults, including boys and adults in that unit, encourage religious awards so that boys have a chance at 'em and leaders are informed, provide resources for crews working on Quest and Ranger, and on and on... There's enough to do as DAC to take up 100% of ghermanno's volunteer energy without frettin' over the eccentricities of every unit in his district. If we're goin' to be referencing ACP&P for him, we need to be referring to the first two chapters on the roles and responsibilities of council and district, not quotin' isolated sentences out of the section on units. Only bad things that happen are when we district folks don't understand our jobs! Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)

My son also asked to address some of the points in the SM statement..my son owned all of the situations that the SM had mentioned but said to the committee..." I'm not calling Mr SM a liar but what Mr SM said is not exactly what happened". My son went on to explain each situation. Yah, sorry if I misinterpreted, mdsummer45. I took this statement (and the long paragraph of details of disputed facts which followed it) as arguing the facts. As NeilLup suggests, it's better just to say "that was then, when I was a First Class Scout and still learning. This is now, when I act and behave like an Eagle Scout." That's the point to continue to convey going forward. As for the timing, I reckon if your son isn't available then it ain't kosher for him to expect adults to get back to him on a timetable faster than what he's able to do himself. When he gets back, he should begin by checking in on the CC and his family. A card to CC's mom or a small set of flowers for the funeral are in order at least, or perhaps coordinating his fellows to show up at the funeral in uniform together as a sign of respect and support for a man who's no doubt given a lot to the troop during your son's 7 years. All with no strings attached, and no mention of da Eagle issue. In the end your son is going to get Eagle, eh? But da only thing that really matters is whether he lives it. Beavah

In da parent thread, packsaddle describes a long history of seemingly random bureaucratic changes and hurdles in his district Eagle process that I'm sure many folks recognize. Puttin' that together with gherrmano's bit, it seemed like a good time to spin off this topic. Havin' been a district and council fellow for a lot of years, I've seen what packsaddle describes happen a lot. Advancement Committees get the worst of it, and sometimes commissioner corps, but it happens everywhere. In some ways it's da Peter Principle - good unit scouters rise to the level of incompetence as district folks . I reckon it happens because the skill set and mind set to be a good district volunteer is very, very different from what is required to be a good unit volunteer. A good unit volunteer is typically in charge. If they're doin' advancement, they set up da systems and rules for their unit and enforce them. If they're managing adult volunteers, they set up the parameters for each volunteer and set the expectations and direct. If they're in charge of outings/safety, same deal. That's what makes for success in a unit program. At district, we're not in charge of anything. Our job isn't to set up rules or enforce or manage or direct at all. If da unit volunteer is "dad", we're "grandpa". We're there as extra hands of support, some wisdom to turn to when frustrated, that sort of thing. We're cheerful support services. Lots of times when unit scouters transition to district jobs, nobody does a good orientation with 'em. To my mind it's a much harder transition than from being a 17 year old scout to an 18 year old scouter. Da biggest error is that they all tend to want to do what they did as unit scouters - set up systems and be in charge. Advancement Committees get the worst of this just because units are heavily involved in advancement so folks come in with very firm notions of how their unit does things right. We don't have da same issue with Fundraising, because most units aren't doin' their own FOS drives, so they don't tend to come in with da same "this is the way it is to be done" notion. But you'll see it other places like Membership where someone wants to get everyone to do webelos transition or roundup "their" way because it worked well in their unit (and maybe not even that well!). I reckon it's this bit that causes a lot of what packsaddle described, eh? Every new DAC comes in and has to set up a new system and be in charge. So we get new paperwork system on top of new paperwork system, all handed down with authority and da poor scouts and unit scouters runnin' around tryin' to cope. That's a sign of a poor district and weak district volunteer selection/trainin'. A proper district volunteer understands that rather than set up systems and direct, his/her role is to provide service by adapting to the needs of each unit and customizing a way of supporting them. If they can't come to training, take training to them. If they are trippin' over da Eagle paperwork chase, streamline it and ease the burden. They're our customer, and da customer is always right, and it's never the customer's fault. Maybe we need a stronger new district volunteer orientation / reprogramming training. I dunno. What do the rest of you see out there? Beavah

Yah, I agree with NeilLup, eh? Thank you letters right away, and whatever acts of sympathy and support for the CC that are genuine. While we might occasionally squabble over the rules for handin' out cloth patches, the rules for supporting each other are incontrovertible. We set aside our differences and come to the aid of our brothers in scouting in their time of need. That's who we are. Sounds like there's a much longer history of behavioral issues here than what yeh had reported to us prior to this, mdsummer. And I'm sure we all as adults wonder when young people will learn that what they post on Facebook is a direct reflection of their character and can cost 'em jobs even years later. These days it's become routine for many employers to check current and historical Facebook postings as part of da employee screening process. So I reckon the SM has taught your son a valuable lesson that as a bright lad he should already have known. All that having been said, I really do look askance at adults bringin' up behavioral incidents from four years earlier. One thing about kids. They grow. A lad who was a rascal as a freshman like as not is an outstanding citizen and leader as a senior. Rather than argue da facts, your son probably should just have said "that was four years ago, I apologized at the time, and I've learned a lot and grown a lot since then." Nothing shows maturity like agreeing and then putting in context. Nothing shows immaturity like arguing trivial facts. Still, I reckon most adults tend to feel as I do and simply dismiss "old" incidents if there's any sign of growth. So this is on the cusp, eh? There are still a few current behavioral issues, and there's the tough job of overruling the sitting SM that NeilLup described. I wouldn't fret about the delay, eh? If I were the CC and the SM left early, I'd want a chance to talk with da SM before makin' a final decision public. Just polite, eh? Especially when yeh might have to soothe egos and maintain relationships. Often an overruled SM will just resign, and that creates all kinds of problems. A good CC needs time to explain a hard decision and get the SM on board before a public ruling, or time to deal with the implications of a SM's resignation before it hits the street. That's not somethin' that can be delegated as easily as you suggest. His family issues and the SM's schedule are goin' to make finding the time and energy to do that a bit more challenging. So I think yeh proceed politely as NeilLup suggests. They suggested you should hear by Monday, so check in Tuesday evening, being solicitous of the CC's needs. Let the DAC know you're waitin' patiently for the troop committee response, as the CC is dealing with some family issues. In any event, no further action on your part until a week from Monday or a couple days after da funeral, whichever comes last. Beavah

Yah, ghermanno, I think da way you deal with this is by understandin' the real nature of your job, and what it is and isn't. Your job is to help promote advancement method in your district. Coordinate the district component of the Eagle process as a service to units, help make sure district offerings like MB fairs are conducted with some semblance of adherence to the rules, make sure MB counselors are available and trained and lists are up to date. And on and on. If you're doin' your job and really providing a service in those areas, yeh really don't have any time to stick your nose into unit programs. Your job is not to supervise unit programs or unit scouters. They don't report to you or answer to you. You have no say in how they choose to run their unit program. That should be a relief to you, because it means you are not liable for what they do when you're not around. Yah, your committee might eventually get an appeal from this gentleman's unit. In that case, your group needs to evaluate the appeal based on the information presented, as fairly and impartially as you can. Just like any court of appeals, you stay out of cases until then, because if you get involved earlier then you aren't a fair and impartial arbiter of da rules. And honestly, if the man is a great SM, you're not likely to get any appeals from his unit, because his kids and their families are proud of the work they do to get Eagle in that program. If you can't do that - if you can't do your district job as an act of service to the units, if you feel it's your role to get involved in managing unit programs and you can't be impartial in appeals - then you need to resign as DAC and get back into a unit position. Because if yeh go at it like that, you'll be a lousy district volunteer. We district and council folks just provide service to all units, none of whom will ever do everything exactly the way we did as unit volunteers or exactly the way we'd like. And that's OK. Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

If the scout is at a loss on how to do the Eagle Leadership Project on his own, perhaps he isnt ready to do the project yet, no disrespect, but maybe some experience is required Yah, I think dat's the point, eh? It's just that the experience which should be (and is!) required is First Class, Star, and Life . If a Life Scout isn't ready to do a project on his own, then either we've made the project process really too onerous, or we haven't set up the requirements for the lower ranks to give the lad the experience and preparation he needs. B

A Court of Honor is a troop function, not a family function. Just like a high school graduation ceremony is a school function, not a family function, or a Silver Beaver presentation is a council function, not a family function. It's up to the troop how they choose to put on a Court of Honor and present an award. It's up to the family what they want to do for any private party afterward. Now, mostly units share the planning and the cost burden with da parents, and combine an award ceremony with a reception. And I expect all units will listen to and try to accommodate requests from the Eagle candidates. Neither is required, and it's important to understand protocol and proper roles, because it helps guide things. HiStyleRider, I think it's just fine for your troop to want to do a publicity event and highlight seven Eagle Scouts. Might get all your boys in the paper, which would be fun, and good for the troop. That's their show. I think it's also OK for parents to say "hey, we're only able to contribute X dollars". You're under no obligation to fund their show. Maybe that means they go back to singleton awards, or maybe it means that they have a combined award ceremony in a church and then go to private parties afterward or just do light hors d'ouvres out on the lawn. The caterin' bill you're talkin' about I find completely daunting, and really out of range for a lot of boys and families in the current economy. Beavah

Doing an Eagle project is a learning experience. The scout must to be taught and/or advised on how to do things. You do your best to promote initiative and independent thinking with the scout but sometimes they just don't know how to 'do stuff'. C'mon, they are a teenager and have little life experience and/or experience in project management upon which to rely. The above quote was from CA_Scouter in da parent thread, and seemed worthy of further discussion. I confess that my first thought was "Well why in the world don't they know how to do stuff? We've had 'em in scouting for quite a few years, and presumably they've learned how to plan and run outings, lead groups of different kids in a variety of circumstances, etc. etc. We're not sending them fresh faced to an Eagle project, this is da culmination of years of instruction and mentoring on our part. If they're not ready, then there's somethin' very wrong with how we administered First Class and Star and Life ranks. Then I got to thinkin' some more and lookin' at the requirements and practice. I think two things have happened over time, and they sorta crept up on us. First thing is that the project has become bigger and bigger with time. If not the actual project, then the paperwork end. Same with the Eagle Application process. Lots of extra paperwork and procedure and hoops and loops for 'em to fly. References, personal statements, lists of outside positions, project budgets, reports, proposals, etc. At the same time, First Class First Year and other trends have led us to move pretty fast through the early ranks, and really reduce the load on Star and Life. Though boys should have had time to develop leadership skills, and write a proposal for an outing or the annual calendar, and work through budgets for their patrol for outings, or contact outfitters to make arrangements, or plan safety for a trip, none of those things is actually required. And to be honest, da youth in most troops these days really don't do that stuff. Our trend is to pursue Life Scout in a minimalized to the requirements way. In that case CA_Scouter is quite right, eh? We've added a lot at Eagle that didn't exist before, and we haven't really taught or prepared the lads for what we're asking of them. I expect that's part of what's been behind the explosion of adult "Eagle Advisors" out there. What do yeh all think? Beavah

Perhaps this SM needs to take a step back and re access his "plate". Could be. All kinds of good folks get into those situations, eh? But that's up to his wife to beat into his head, not us. Don't get too down on those who don't have sons in the program. By and large they're the backbone of a lot of troops. Lem Siddons is alive and well out there. I am not the only parent who has had issues with this SM... Yah, doesn't matter, eh? Usually when yeh say things like this people in the know immediately discount your words. Almost 100% of the time, the anonymous "other people" really don't feel the same way the person talkin' does. Sometimes they were really just being polite while listenin' to someone vent. Other people can speak for themselves if they want to. If they don't, then they don't want to, eh? "Just ordinary folks with good enough intentions to spend a lot of their time running scouting for kids. Ordinary folks who aren't perfect." You are absolutely correct...but you need to take it one step further... No one is perfect...even an Eagle Scout. Yep. Both are true. Nobody expects our Eagles to be perfect, or should. Please don't get me wrong, mdsummer45, it may well be that your son is a great lad dealing with a tired, distracted, or burned-out adult. Also may be that your son has been a mouthy know-it-all brat to this man, too, and not grown out of it. No way for us out here in cyberspace to know. Doesn't really matter anyways, because the process is the same, and the demands of politeness, respect and courtesy are the same. So the advice we give yeh is the same either way. And as I said before, I fully expect that your boy will be awarded the Eagle rank at some point. I just sometimes feel da need to tamp down the emotions a bit, eh? While accusing a committee of plotting in advance to deliberately lose recommendation letters is the sort of thing we might occasionally vent privately to a friend in a moment of frustration, it's really not somethin' most of us would want to say in public about fellow scouters we've never met. It's really not fair, IMO. That's all. Again, good luck to your son tonight. Beavah

Nah, Lisabob. This was da first and only time that the committee meeting was postponed. Since bein' alerted to the boy's request by the SM, they have been a model of proper action. Scheduling a review, now requesting reference letters to go out so that they can conduct an Eagle BOR for the lad when appropriate. All the rest were a mom's indirect report of what a boy said about a Scoutmaster who was traveling a lot for business, and perhaps had some issue with the boy that we don't know about. Yah, we can fault the SM a bit for not bein' perfect in his communication, fair enough. But I know a lot of guys travelin' a lot on short notice these days who are tryin' to save their jobs and livelihood. That's hard on 'em, and hard on their families. Sometimes dealin' with grief from one boy or family is more time and emotional load than they are willin' to deal with at the time. And to be honest, I occasionally miss emails or forget to return phonecalls when I'm busy with other stuff, eh? I expect most of us do. There's just no call to be assuming there are any malicious scouters here. Just ordinary folks with good enough intentions to spend a lot of their time running scouting for kids. Ordinary folks who aren't perfect. Mdsummer45, good luck to your boy tonight. Have confidence in him. No matter what happens, sit quietly and let him and other good folks work da process. Stay unfailingly respectful and polite, just as we teach the boys to. Yeh might end up being positively surprised, but if not, yeh can at least stand tall. Beavah

Great thread, Firekat. I think da biggest thing is communicate, communicate, communicate and nip this stuff in the bud when folks first join. Right from the start, with new parent orientations and how you respond to adult behaviors your first few outings. If you're firm and informative (in that order) at the beginning when they're new, it's much easier than havin' to step in and be firm later on. Action and example more than words, of course. And give 'em something to do that keeps 'em busy and away from the lads. That way when they start interferin', the SPL or SM can ask them how they're doin' on their job and order 'em back to work. Beyond that, I'm an old codger, eh? I'm not shy. If a man starts takin' over a boy's project, I usually just pull him aside and let him know that things can be done perfectly the way he wants, in which case his son doesn't get Eagle, or they can be done imperfectly under his son's direction, in which case he does. Then I offer either to drive him home or let him use my camera as "official photographer" for da rest of the day. Or, alternately, yeh pull the guy aside and get him involved in some annoying make-work problem that yeh know will take a while. Durin' that time, you comment on how well his son is doing, how he'll be a fine leader, how much he's learning from being given the chance to lead without us adults, yada yada. B

* SPL and Patrol Leader handbooks. * The leader's guide to whatever summer camp you're planning to attend * The BSA Fieldbook. * A non-BSA outdoor leadership book, like the Appalachian Mountain Club's Guide to Outdoor Leadership or the National Outdoor Leadership School's Wilderness Guide * A fun learning read like Allen & Mike's Really Cool Backpacking Book. * An alternate handbook, like Mark Ray's The Scoutmaster's Other Handbook, or one of the Underground Scoutmaster's Handbooks that floats around the net. If BSA training isn't available, yeh can at least get 'em jumpstarted on their outdoor skills with training from a local outfitter like REI.

When I opened the invitation link he sent to me I noticed that the times he had listed were not the same as he had announced earlier. He listed the start time on Saturday as noon rather than 9:00 am. Nuthin' wrong with sending a query about a discrepancy in something that he sent to you. I'd send it back by email, same way you got the invitation. Question is, why wouldn't his buddies send him the same query? If you expect them to, yeh might just lay off so that you're not "piling on". He fixed the time and sent another email out. I also suggested to him that he stagger the times that the guys show up. Laying out the bricks for the pathway he's building will be a long hard job, but not something that 20 guys can do all at one time. Nope, this one was a bit too far, IMO. Yeh might make that suggestion to a young First Class or Star Scout who is planning an outing or service project for the first time. A project advisor or committee reviewin' his proposal might make that comment. Otherwise, I think it treads too much on his plan. If he has too many people show up, he should have to deal with managing that. That would become a fine topic of discussion at his final review - both his ability to manage the issue and his recognition afterward of how he could have done it differently would impress his Board of Review. By steppin' in, you deprived him of that. Same as if you stepped in on any other scout in your program. A good test is to ask yourself this question: "If I assigned an adult ASM who I really trusted to do this task, would I interfere in this way?" An Eagle is a young adult in da program who often has more experience than most ASMs. Treat 'em the same way. That havin' been said, if yeh didn't get the eye roll, it was only a venial sin. Well, I do receive the eye-roll when I ask about writing to his senator as his last remaining requirement for Cit Nation. As well yeh should. This is way over da top "mom" behavior, LOL. Beavah

Yah, as to da mold allergy thing, this is what doctors are for. But there's about a bazillion types of mold, eh? Plenty in houses to. Yeh might find that your son is only sensitive to a few types, and that his prior bad experience is associated with one camping area and one season, not all of New England. In fact, I'd be surprised if that weren't the case. And nope, I wasn't lyin' about the sex, drugs, and weapons. Parents are always the last to know. Always. That's why it's so important for kids to develop their own judgment, and a group of friends and mentors beyond their parents who are good folks. As for time, one of the bonuses of Boy Scouting is that yeh don't have to be there all the time the way you were with cub scouting. Your lad can go on a campout without you, and you can spend that weekend for some great special times with your daughter. Your son can even get a carpool to the meet-up point and a ride home. The point is that your son's activities should be limited by his energy level and interest, not yours. And his interests especially are going to become different than yours. Beavah

Yah, hi Daddy_O. Welcome to the scouter forums. Before you go any further, I want you to listen to the following, then take a deep breath, walk around the block, and sleep on it for a few days. Odds are very strong that your two-sport middle school "all-star" will never make high school varsity in either of those two sports, and are almost certain that he will not continue to play them in college or beyond. Fact is that elementary school and middle school all stars most often burn out, or are simply passed up by other kids when everyone passes puberty. Just the facts of life. Second fact. Your wonderful 10-year-old will become an annoying teenager. Like every boy before him, he will begin moving away from his upbringing and in the direction of his peers and the few non-familial adults who care enough to spend time with him. He will rebel against your wonderful relationship. I promise you that if not by age 13 then by age 16 he will be exposed to drugs and sex and weapons and other things, and you will never know about it. But his friends will, and that non-familial adult might. The choices he makes will depend as much on them as on you. Third fact. Your son's interests in the next few years are going to change. You have no idea where they're going to go. Right now he might like plain pizza, give it a few years and he's going to be doing calzones loaded with garlic and anchovies (well, maybe not the anchovies ). What he needs as a middle schooler is to explore, try lots of things, and find those that give him the most satisfaction and joy. Neither you nor your kid know whether or not he's "an outdoor type" at this point. You might be surprised. Now go... and if you don't believe me, go talk to one of his teachers or some other person you trust. Take a big step back and get your head clear. And talk to your wife! When you come back from that exercise, consider that if your kid is the great kid you say, he should choose. If he wants to stay in scouts, let him. If he wants to blow off baseball for summer camp, or summer camp for baseball, let him. If he wants to give up music in favor of theater, or drop scouting to take up madrigal singing, let him. All of those things are great activities, so let a great kid choose what makes his heart sing the most, and cheer in support of whatever choice he makes. Give him some experience making his own choices. He's going to need it. And if you consider anything at all, consider what activities will give him longer-term relationships with peers and adults that you feel are good people. All boys need those longer-term relationships for success as teens. Whether the scouting programs in your area will meet your son's interests or needs I have no idea. Neither do you. Let him explore. Beavah