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Beavah

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Everything posted by Beavah

  1. Yah, in da previous thread, RememberSchiff says: By age 12, my son had been on more campouts, summer camps, and earned Camping mb than I had by 15, why? ... Back in my day...you were ACTIVE and INVOLVED in your greater community not indentured to your troop. ... There was time for other important things producing a better rounded young man. The best and brightest kids - the A students, team captains, band members, school leaders were Eagles. Today? Rarely. I think there's no doubt that there's a trend to overscheduling young folks, especially at elementary and middle school. I've never considered scoutin' to be a part of it, particularly. Compared with most school activities and sports programs, we really seem pretty relaxed to me. What do the rest of you think? Yeh think scouting scheduling adds disproportionately to the scheduling burden? Beavah
  2. As long as he isn't over 295 pounds and is under 21% body fat, he is good to go. Goin' to have to go look at a new form, but I'm not sure this is right, eh? I think da point of the lower weight limit is that it increases the risk of musculoskeletal injuries. The skinny folks are always goin' to be carrying / lifting a higher percentage of body weight, which on rough terrain means a greater chance of bone/joint injuries in a slip and fall or somethin' like that. Now, my experience has been that most athletic kids are dexterous enough that they solve da problem by just bein' quicker and more limber. But it does apply to underweight adults, eh? And perhaps to underweight lads who aren't as athletic. Seen that occasionally at camp in lads whose parents/family have 'em on vegetarian diets for religious/personal reasons. Beavah
  3. Yah, it's a tom-fool policy. Especially since IMNSHO units should have a stock of rank badges in order to recognize a lad as soon as he completes his BOR. With scout shops few and far between especially in more rural areas, a boy should not have to wait until the next time an adult makes the 90 mile trek to the scout shop, or supply gets around to mailin' things. As a unit, yeh can just follow da BSA way. Keep a set of extra fellows on da roster and promote 'em to build a stock of badges . Yeh just go in and tell 'em it's for a new shirt or a second jambo shirt or whatnot. If they give yeh any lip ask to talk to their superior. Beavah
  4. nobody realized at the time that this was might be unconstitutional a public school cannot should choose not to be the CO so as to avoid pointless litigation(This message has been edited by Beavah)
  5. Its sad when a Scout and his parents are being forced to appeal to the Council because the SM, troop, and district refuse to accept the new definition of ACTIVE Nah, it's normal. Dat's what the appeals process is for, eh? What's sad is that National is tryin' to force an absurd definition of active down the throats of lots of good scouters who are spending an awful lot of time workin' on behalf of teachin' kids citizenship and responsibility. So we've set up these conflicts, eh? Only leads to three possible outcomes. Weakening da program standards, losing adult leaders and units, or removing kids like the one you mention from da roster at recharter time rather than keepin' the door open for 'em. Yeh can't force a volunteer to give his or her time to a lad who hasn't shown them the same courtesy. And I've seen good kids and families quit scouting when a lad was awarded what was perceived as a paper Eagle. "We thought it stood for something" was their comment on da way out the door. What we hold up to others as being our highest standard affects all our boys. You don't get a Varsity Letter if yeh don't show up for practice, even if you are a 4.0 student, even if you are working 30 hours a week, even if yeh are first chair in da orchestra, even if you played da sport actively as a freshman 3 years ago. Beavah
  6. Beavah, you constantly dismiss the rights of atheist students. Lying again, eh? I think students should be allowed to join an American Atheists club that's sponsored by their public school. I think they have that right to assemble on school grounds with their friends and like-minded individuals, and do what AA clubs do, eh? Free of zealous Christians or Muslims trying to change what their club stands for. I'd say it serves a public purpose to allow that, because it's good for kids to have a community they feel a part of at school, and because I trust AA has an educational mission that advances da public good in many ways - teaches kids critical thinking skills, citizenship, etc. I think you should start such a club, Merlyn. I think you should put your care and concern for young atheist boys and girls where your mouth is. If yeh really care about such children yourself, you'd be out helpin' 'em learn and grow. You wouldn't let a bunch of token religious Scoutmasters show you up by giving a thousand more hours of community service to kids each year than you do (even to some of your atheist kids, eh!). Every one of us here would support you in that mission. We'd encourage you, give you advice, help you with resources. We'd want you to succeed in offerin' the best possible program to kids. So how 'bout it? Do yeh care enough about kids to give 'em your time and energy? Respect 'em enough to be part of their life? Or are yeh just a poser? Beavah
  7. Yah, I reckon anyone with sense knew this policy would cause all kinds of problems. Da issues with using BMI are well known in the medical community. It's a sorta approximation for health, and doesn't work for the 5-10% outliers on either end... the young, tall, lean fellows or broad/strong adults. The 30 minutes thing IIRC came from ARC's loose approximation of when wilderness medical protocols should apply rather than in-town ones. So both items, da BMI chart and the 30 minutes thing are rough approximations. Rough approximations are not somethin' that yeh should turn into "policy." That having been said, I think generally speakin' the weight guidelines for most average adult leaders are good ones. I think when we're above da max we really shouldn't be on high adventure trips, and when we're above the recommended we are slowin' down active high school aged boys, and limiting what they can do. But those have to be applied with some measure of judgment and common sense is all. For da kids, I think prep-trips tell yeh more about readiness than the BMI charts (which were designed for adults). Beavah
  8. Nah, he overstates his claim, NJCubScouter. But da point is that it's not about bein' right or wrong. Good citizenship and good personal ethics and good mental health generally aren't about bein' right or wrong on some petty issue or another. It's about bigger stuff, eh? It's about seeing enough of value in another person to be willing to give up being right. I know I give up being right to Mrs. Beavah all the time . It's about caring about others no matter how goofy or silly or rebellious or dense they are, eh? That's why we scouter types work with kids . Our national politics at da moment is overrun by people who seem to care only about scoring points against da other side. Tragic. They're makin' everyone miserable, including themselves. Ain't about being right or wrong. It's about valuing da other person, and working together to get something done. I think Merlyn is attracted to scoutin' and these forums because he longs for that experience - for doin' something valuable and hard and truly meaningful for other folks. Maybe for kids, maybe somethin' else. Most bright folks with passion are really looking for that, and he's a bright fellow with passion. He's just gettin' sidetracked by a meaningless issue. When yeh get passionate complainers in your cub pack, I reckon one of da things yeh do is put 'em in charge of something, eh? They've got da time, da energy, and the desire to see something done right. And along the way, when they start gettin' complaints themselves, they realize how helpin' people is harder and more complimicated than they thought before. They learn to be more tolerant of folks who are tryin' to do good things being "wrong." That's what Merlyn needs. About time we helped him get there, rather than just toyin' with him da way we have been. Not that it hasn't been fun; a bit like makin' a cat chase a laser pointer. Beavah
  9. Now, Merlyn, in many a thread you've shouted "liar, liar!" when anybody has done to you the same thing you just did to me. In fact you did so to others in this very thread. Guess that makes yeh both a liar and a hypocrite, eh? I don't mind. It's hard for youngsters to apply to themselves the same standard they apply to others. Yeh see what seems wrong and want to call it out. Takes some maturity to first look at another person and see what is right. And then balance that. To see others, and do unto others, as we hope they'd see us and treat us. To help a person grow, and to help a group or society grow, yeh build on the good things, eh? Yeh find their strengths. Yeh don't dwell on their weaknesses. It just doesn't work to do that. Goodness knows if Mrs. Beavah ever looked at things the way you do she never would have spent any time on this old furry critter. My weaknesses are legion! We help people and groups by findin' the good in 'em. Finding weaknesses and yellin' about wrongdoing is most often a selfish act. We do it to feed our own insecurities and egos. Yeh need to grow out of that, mate. You've got a good head on your shoulders, and you've got a lot of passion. Yeh seem drawn to youth programs. Yeh could do a lot of good out there. Work with atheist kids. Work with religious kids, too... give 'em some respect but also some perspective so they don't go off da rails and they learn to question a bit. Find the good in folks and programs and build on it. Start your own and do good things. I think you'd find it fulfilling, and make yeh happy. It's hard not to be happy when yeh see the good in folks. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)
  10. Yah, thanks for sharin' dScouter15. And kudos to your youth leaders for recognizin' an issue and taking action. I think kids generally follow the lead of adults and older kids when it comes to whether to sulk or not. If adults are fair-weather campers, the kids will be, too. If the adults go out and have fun in the rain and mud, the kids will, too. Your method is what I'd recommend to any unit. Make sure kids have da right gear (before the trip); make sure they know how to dress themselves (not always a given); and then just continue the program full-steam. Skin is water-proof! Hiking, camping, swimming, games, challenges, pioneering, paddling, boating, you name it. Almost everything we do can continue in the rain (and snow). In fact, usually those campouts are da ones that are remembered! Beavah
  11. Yah, there's really quite a difference between the evidence needed to convict someone of molestation and the evidence that yeh think is sufficient to not want 'em to be youth leaders. That's why I think folks who believe background checks and involving civil authorities offer much protection are foolin' themselves. I haven't seen anything yet in da news reports which amounts to negligence on the BSA's part. It's not even clear that much (if any) of the abuse actually happened on scout outings, let alone BSA properties under their supervision. Just a grandstanding attorney hopin' to get to a settlement by slinging enough PR mud that the defendant will manage the case with $$ instead of legal arguments. Probably could have gotten something, too, if his demands weren't so high. If da story ends up being what it currently looks to be, it's a good example of how intellectually and professionally weak our media have become. At the moment, the headlines should read "Scout files show BSA was far ahead of the government in tracking abusers in order to protect kids." Beavah
  12. By the way, do you still think public schools can discriminate on the basis of religion? At no time have I ever said that, so I guess you're just being a liar again, eh? If yeh send me a PM with your location, I can find you some youth programs in your area that have diverse clientele that would benefit from your time. It's quite a challengin' thing, to meet the needs of different kids from different beliefs and backgrounds, to treat 'em all with respect while providing 'em space to be themselves and be with people with whom they share interests, and also exposing 'em and welcoming 'em to the wider world. You might discover it's a challenge worthy of your passion and intellect. And it will provide a form of social capital and credibility to yeh as you approach others about the issues you care about. An average Scoutmaster puts in around a thousand hours of community service a year to kids from a wide range of backgrounds, beliefs, socioeconomic levels. Yep, includin' atheists and kids strugglin' with belief, or sexual identity, and a whole mess of other things. Odds are they provide a bit of parenting help and advice to adults too, eh? Surely you can do at least that well. How 'bout it, mate? Fiddlin' with charter paperwork is easy, trivial even. Can yeh meet a real challenge? Beavah
  13. Sorry, Merlyn, what you're describin' is contrary to the plain text of both the law and the regulation. Yeh may wish it was da way you describe, but it isn't. But I return to da core issue. You need to get out and do some good in the world. Work with schools, work with kids, work with people in disputes. Whatever. Learn what it takes to really help people, get your hands dirty in the trenches, demonstrate real compassion. Until you do that, yeh really don't have credibility on any of these issues in front of a group of folks who put their volunteer time and money into helpin' children. Just the way it is, eh? Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)
  14. Got a cite for that Beavah? The federal Equal Access Act only says that all groups must be treated equally. If ALL groups are required to not discriminate, that's equal treatment. 20 USC 7905, 34 CFR 108. Your interpretation of the meaning of the law and the associated regulations would be incorrect. Got any examples of that? They actually exclude expectant fathers? Yah, all over da place. Bet yeh have 'em in your area. Mrs. Beavah has even helped teach one locally. They exclude all males. Doesn't mean that other programs aren't available for fathers or for parents together. Just means they're meeting a particular need for a particular group. Beavah
  15. Yah, NancyB, you're all over da place here. There's no BSA rule about an ASM living with a SM. Happens quite a bit, if a scouter can find a wife who actually likes camping with smelly boys! And two deep is two deep, eh? There's no BSA rule that they can't be related, though it's a good practice IMHO. Yeh also don't seem to understand the corporate or legal structure of the BSA. You are a member of one council. Your reference to two different councils ("local" and "Omaha") therefore doesn't make much sense. And a scoutmaster is a volunteer for a chartered organization, not for the council or the BSA. So I'll return to what I posted in another thread, eh? Yeh need to find some professional counseling help. If yeh are an attorney, it's clear that you are so emotionally wrapped up in what's goin' on in your life and divorce that it's affecting your professional judgment. That means it's also affecting your ability to be a good mom, and your son needs you to be a good mom right now. Monday morning, no putting it off. Professional counselor. First agenda item of the day. No excuses, if you care about your kid. Beavah
  16. Yah, could be, ScoutNut. Especially since NancyB claimed to be a former city attorney, but can't seem to navigate da difference between civil liability and criminality. Worth answerin' anyways, just in case. Someone who finds themselves in this circumstance might be searchin' the archives some day. I think if several adults feel like their alarms are goin' off and they're "watching" the advisor, that's a good signal of a problem. Which means that your sister and the other adults have to stop with the behind-da-scenes gossip and "watching" and go talk to the CC, COR, and Scout Executive. Give 'em a full report of the facts that they have witnessed or statements they have heard, not da rumor or innuendo or 3rd-party hearsay. Then let those folks handle it. They'll do their thing with a quiet investigation and whatever conversations need to be had or actions taken. Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)
  17. Hi kcs_hiker! So what I got out of all that is that your SM isn't perfect, and like most SMs he's overworked. And da troop isn't perfect. It's fairly normal for a Scoutmaster, whose first role is to train youth leaders, to be spendin' most of his time with those boys. The OA / high adventure group. That's da way scouting works, eh? It's the older boys who then work with the younger fellows. And workin' with the older boys, doing OA and high adventure, can take a lot of time. So other aspects of the program fall to ASMs, eh? Seems like it was an ASM, not the SM, who was behind the delay in your son receivin' his First Class. That's just bad form. The boy should have gotten his badge right at the next meeting. Might have spurred some of those other fellows to get working! But yeh sometimes run into folks who carry over the cub scout notion of everyone sort of advancing at once so boys don't "feel bad." Your troop should fix this practice, but it's an ordinary mistake. Busy SMs generally prefer self-starters as volunteers, eh? They're workin' with the boys, and don't have a whole lot of energy left to help adult volunteers who don't self-start. Trying to get the attention of a busy Scoutmaster at a troop meeting is always a bad idea. The SM is goin' to be focused on the kids. And da same thing might be true at a RT, where a SM is focused on other things. A good Committee Chair usually will support a SM by tryin' to fill that need of helping adult volunteers get goin'. With a good CC, he or she might have helped yeh out getting started on the Scoutquest paperwork. If the CC isn't able to because of his personal tragedy, that's somethin' yeh just shrug over and be supportive. Hopefully someone is sorta stepping up a bit to being co-CC, but that takes some time and finesse. Still, I don't reckon you should be too upset at having a task taken away from you if you "gave up" and hadn't really done anything since December. Hazing and bullying are more of a worry, dependin' on what we're talkin' about exactly. That happens a lot when the adult leaders are kind of weak and not good at understandin' kids. Havin' a lot of ASMs and adults on a campout also sorta diffuses the responsibility so that people are less likely to act. If you feel like you can fill some of that need, yeh should consider volunteering to be an ASM. But if you can't, you should keep an eye on it, and especially be really supportive of your son for his character and courage. Don't know what to make of da "wealthier, high achieving" kids comment. So I'd say overall what you're reportin' is normal. It's not great, it's perhaps not awful. It's just gettin' under your skin as a fellow who "likes to have his way". If your son likes it and is getting something out of it, then your role is to be dad and encourage and support your son. If yeh see a volunteer task that you feel you'd be great for and can step in and do, then step up. If yeh feel it'll only put yeh into "rant" mode, then step back. Beavah
  18. Yah, NancyB, in another thread you claim to be a former city attorney, eh? Then you know that you have no business discussin' pending litigation or ongoing investigations in a nationwide public online forum. That's just foolish. And litigating a $300 fundraising mixup while subpoenaing children to testify? What in the name of heaven are you thinking? You need, right now, this week, to get some help. Yeh should have contacts in your community you can turn to for referral to professional counseling. Use 'em. Anybody who's goin' through a mess like you seem to be should seek care. There's no shame in it. It's how yeh get through such things, and how you change your focus back to being a mother who can focus on her son and his needs rather than on hurtin' your ex. Beyond that, without knowin' the nature of your divorce settlement and custody arrangements and such, I don't think anyone here can comment, eh? And da other scouting issues are best left to the folks in the troop who are workin' with your poor kid. Beavah
  19. The bottom line is that the school cannot endorse any group that restricts membership based on religion. Yah, but da question is "What constitutes endorsement?", eh? All that we have by way of binding precedent refers to when school officials or youth-contact employees lead religious-based groups for students during their "on the clock" time, or when schools use captive-audience gatherings of the entire student body for prayer. Seems like having outside volunteers provide programming to serve a self-selected group of children is fundamentally different. With no district dollars and no district staff involved, it's hard to make a case for entanglement, eh? School policy in most districts clearly states that the school will not disciminate based on certain protected categories, and religion is included in most of them. So even if the 1st amendment wasn't the issue, the school has to follow it's own policy. Yah, but the school board sets the policy, and can overrule it in either the particular or the general case, eh? Generally speakin', school boards aren't bound by their own policies any more than congress is bound by its own procedural rules. They can always be dispensed with. If a group doesn't allow non-christians to join it cannot meet at school. This at least is simply not true. Might be da practice in your school district, but if it is they're playin' fast and loose with the rules and can get themselves in trouble. Religious groups and particularly scouts are governed by equal-access laws at the very least. If your district allows any outside groups at all (including PTOs, the teachers' union, etc.) to meet at school, then they must allow scouts to meet at school, at least if they're receivin' federal dollars. Exclusivity based on a suspect class has significant weight in a discrimination complaint, but it may be balanced by other factors when those factors demonstrate that a policy serves a public purpose. So, for example, school districts and public alternative education programs frequently offer infant caregiving classes to young mothers which exclude all male students. Da public interest in having young mothers learn how to care for infants is significant, and the importance of creating a classroom environment where they can share and ask questions in a supportive environment substantially serves that public purpose and therefore is considered legal. Issues for township services are a bit different than education stuff, eh? Even so, affirmative action programs (discrimination in government services and access based on race) have been upheld, as have programs which benefit all religious groups (tax-free status and tax deductible donations), and educational programs which specifically target suspect classes (like math/science programs aimed at girls to decrease the "gender gap" in math/science learning). Fuzzy questions, fuzzy law. Non-discrimination statutes tends toward overbroad declarations which then need to be fixed in the case law to do stuff that just makes sense. Beavah
  20. Is that really what qualifies as bullying in your mind? Really? Nah, da little smiley face means it's a joke, eh? Look up "smileys" and "emoticons" sometime. Like anything, scouter.com is filled with all sorts of people, eh? And we all know that text doesn't convey emotion or intent very well. Sometimes it will rile even good people. Just read things imagining what the person is sayin' in the best possible light, as a friend joshin' around the campfire. Though we do have our "characters" (and I reckon this furry fellow is one of 'em), like most scouters and scouts, it's a good group. Beavah
  21. Yah, wingnut, I used to have a place where basement flooding happened occasionally. My sympathies. Is that what yeh get for living in a place named Waterbury? Beavah
  22. Yah, Scoutin' is so much fun except for adult egos, eh? Sometimes I wish we could run those week-long teambuilding challenge courses for committees and adult leaders. Yeh just have to get to know people and learn how to work with 'em. Both the SM and CC might be well-meaning and have good ideas, but they have to get on da same page and figure out how to work like a team. Sometimes yeh have to promote a CC like this out of da position. It can be particularly hard for military fellows who are used to a more rigid chain of command to adapt to the collaborative committee / scouter team. Takes a very different skill set to be effective as a CC than as an E-7. Sometimes yeh just have to figure out a different way of workin' to play off his temperament and strengths. Me, I'd be tryin' to redirect the CC, eh? Instead of lookin' inward, his job is to look outward. To protect his people from da council, to deal with unruly parents, to knock down obstacles for the SM and the kids. If he can be brought to think that way, the fellow might make a fine CC. He'll never be as collaborative as the best CCs are, but he'll marshal people to get stuff done. Leave the silly organizational charts for helpin' start da next campfire, eh? Nobody "works for" anybody in this game, eh? We work on behalf of a CO. But if there's any "for" it's "for the kids." We work with each other for the kids. Beavah
  23. Yah, dah problem with floodwater is that in much of da U.S. it causes overflow runoff from our sanitary sewers. Nothing quite as good at spreadin' disease as a lot of human poo in the water. Sometimes rivers and beaches downstream of sanitary systems become too dangerous to swim or boat in when there's been heavy rain. So I reckon what da CDC says is a decent precaution if yeh have to be eatin' or drinkin' off of an area with high likelihood of human fecal coliform and other human waste contamination. Provided yeh aren't a prepared boy scout with a filter or iodine tablets or a steripen or a camp stove or somesuch lyin' around and your only option for treatment is your laundry bleach . Doesn't apply most of da time. Generally speakin', too, if you're boilin' water on a camp stove or fire by the time it comes to a boil it's plenty safe. Camp stoves and fires aren't very fast, eh? By the time it's boiling it's exceeded the pasteurization temperature and time by quite a bit. B
  24. It is still being taught that way. Three tubs with the last being a sanitizing rinse. Yah, it's da thing that just won't die. Maybe after we roll out more LNT Master Educators into the councils we can finally dispense with this stuff. My copy of da fieldbook mentions it as one method, but puts the sanitizer step second to make sure the stuff gets washed off in the third tub. Momentary contact with a dilute solution of bleach during a rinse won't accomplish much of anything. Yeh can use da same trick to disinfect water for drinking, eh? But it takes 10-20 minutes or more. I've never seen anybody leave their dishes to soak for that long. A bit of bleach in the eyes, or mixin' bleach up with a phosphate soap or such will do the lads a world of hurt. Chlorine is not a friendly chemical. So yeh don't get much besides a bit of added risk for all that effort. I suppose if you're takin' your dishwater from a suspect source, it'll at least disinfect the water for yeh. But when you're frontcountry campin', odds are you're gettin' your water from a clean source in the first place. Beavah (This message has been edited by Beavah)
  25. Yah, if your son got food poisoning, it was from da storage and preparation of the food, eh? Regular soap & water scrub and rinse is goin' to take care of dishes, and we really don't want to be dumpin' lots of halogenated water even in the front country. I'd stop da practice myself, T2Eagle. Just silly, and means kids are handlin' potentially dangerous chemicals. Greater risk from that than from gettin' sick. Beavah
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