qwazse

! My brother is a hiking guide for YMCA of the Rockies. He lives in Ohio! His conditioning routine involves reps up and down what amounts to a gully behind a farm. However, don't knock the flatland/suburbia trip. The program would be more popular if the public saw more scouts backpacking through their neighborhoods.

What @HelpfulTracks said. And for the reasons @ItsBrian explained. Take, for example the land-navigation requirement (what many scouters mistake for "the 5-mile hike"), if twenty or more scouts are trudging along a worn camp trail, there's not much navigation going on per scout. They could be discussing with each other, learning how to take marks, identify distances, measure heights. In such a situation, I would discourage any SM from allowing camp to sign-off that requirement.

My suggested hack would be: Boy Scouts of America Troop 1234 for boys of Town. or Town's Boy Scouts of America Troop 1234 for boys. It adds "of America" and "for boys" to your by-line. If the editor tells you that's too onerous then come back "Scouts BSA" instead of "Boy Scouts of America" then you only have a by-line that is only two words longer than before. Linked? Town's Scouts BSA Troops 1234 for boys and girls.

Question: has anybody ever tried backpacking from one side of your county/parish to the other? This would mostly involve back roads, between properties, etc ...

Nobody panic! We're talking about merit badges earned last year. Knock Knock Who's there? Boo. Boo Who? Don't cry, Phlimont will reopen next year!

Plus, Philmont closing. I'm sure some scouts were counting on their high adventure for that badge. Plus ... wait for it ... youth protection ... if you are waiting for two adults over 21 to free up their schedules, you're trip might not happen. There have been times when I've done a trip with a couple of 18 year old ASMs. Those opportunities within BSA are gone. Just remembered: my 1st 50-miler was when I was 18 with two other scouts and the SM. I might have known one other teacher who would have taken us up on the hike, but never thought to invite him until now.

Unless otherwise specified, everything goes directly to our local food bank. (Which our scouts help maintain since it's at our meeting place.) Money is also converted into vouchers to a local grocery store. That food bank will also purchase tickets to our spaghetti dinner fundraiser for their current clients. I was impressed when some of the clients were grateful that they could come to the dinner. I would not have known they were clients if they had not introduced themselves. Being food-poor is isolating. Helping folks regain some dignity by being part our the community breaks that isolation.

Dopamine or no dopamine ... usage by minors would plummet if video games required two registered adults older than 20 of the requisite sexes to be present while playing.

You reminded me of a note to self ... I need to suggest the SPL invite a businessman to talk about how he/she started his/her company. We really should do that on the run up to our fundraisers. There's gotta be a way to bring bugling into the 21st century to make the badge worth shooting for. By that, I mean troops need to learn how to use bugle calls, say on ringtone apps, to the point that one of the scouts really learns how to do it on a horn. The cost of plastic bugles has dropped dramatically. Camporees could start including bonus points if a troop comes with its bugler. They could have a calling contest. "So you think you can bugle?"

The dissonance comes from a deep understanding that the newly imposed "minimum leader requirements" directly clash with what the majority of us were led to believe was "age- and program- appropriate supervision" required for an average patrol meeting/activity. When I was a scout, the appropriate supervision for a meeting was a patrol leader and an assistant. That continues to be the case, on some visceral level, for the majority of 11-18 year old boys in this country, and they will find ways to form their "patrols" outside of the auspices of the BSA. This is the crux of the problem. The core program at its best will ensure that adults don't need to be present at a gathering of Scouts or Venturers. The youth will maybe invite us join them for some brief opening, then we adults could literally go on an hour hike (most of us should) and come back for closing then get a re-cap from the officers regarding plans, questions, etc ... But, that ideal program butts up against the tragedy of a perverse and litigious society -- one which is setting a moving target as to how to defend against its worst actors.

If we have camped a week with someone who would otherwise be our enemy, our reflex to make war may one day be dulled.

This ... I've had some decent DE's, but I learned right quick to yank back on the chain. Don't let having to do that get under your skin. Sometimes these pro's get input from the wrong people and it sends them down the wrong rabbit hole. It doesn't happen all the time. But when it does, don't hesitate to call a spade a spade to whoever needs to hear it. In a couple of months if you're at a district/council event and you see this DE, shake his hand. Do your best to try to make amends. Move on.

@JoeSmith, thanks for the details. The MBC could dig heels in and refuse to sign the blue card. But, I think he/she will approve the scout. When we see scouts face situations beyond their control, we don't blame the scout. If this comes up in our district, sometimes those of us who've been around for a while will eventually touch base with the SM about it and have a discussion. But getting around to having those discussions in a way that a scouter might rethink things takes time, and we wouldn't want a scout's advancement to be dragged out because the interaction of BSA's verbiage and the infrequent troop camping schedule puts the scout in a catch-22. In your SM's case, we'd want to focus on increasing campouts (maybe partnering with a more active troop) rather than gate-keeping advancement. That's not the same as being unduly charitable to a high-speed low-drag troop that constantly pushes scouts through loopholes or get's a "who's looking anyway" attitude. There, we scouters should get serious, and have those "conversations" sooner rather than later. The reason is that scouts going through such a program will likely hit walls when it comes to Eagle project approval and boards of review. They boys certainly won't be prepared for the real world where skill counts more than bling most hours of the day. This honestly doesn't sound like what's happening to your son. So, breaking it down in your terms: The substantive issue seems like the letter of the law was stretched for what the SM felt was the spirit of the law. It's not really about advancement. It's about not using the outdoors to the fullest with these boys. The procedural issue could be a problem if the SM is doing this all the time with your son and other scouts. And I think your SM could have explained to your son that he really wished he could do better. Touching base with the MBC in advance would have helped. But, this might be a symptom of the larger problem: not enough camping so that these grey areas never pop up. How can you help as a parent? I think the simplest is finding out if you have family or friends with a nice property nearby that can provide these scouts one more night in the woods. The troop may bite on your offer, they may not. But providing an extra camping weekend is a way that you can "relieve the pressure cooker" on the advancement method.

@Liz. sounds like you've got a good bit 'o wisdom kicked in you from the school of hard knocks!

We need to face another social shift. Schools are getting public funds to be the venue for what would be venturing activities. And this is an intentional goal. A young friend who I dearly wish hadn't moved away before she could be in our crew is now trying to develop programs that keep kids in school after hours. I joked with her that communities need their kids out on their streets, taking odd jobs, patronizing local business, and generally doing good in the world -- not seeking ways to justify more precious tax dollars going their way. She was not amused. Also, I don't know if you've noticed church youth groups (especially mega churches) lately, but they are more than just additional Bible studies. There are big screen TVs, soda fountains, plans for distant getaways, service projects, camping trips. And... you don't have to declare your belief in God to be part of them. Venturing crews must develop a truly unique niche to justify the adult overhead that BSA is requiring. If a crew is simply hiking and camping in back-country (as mine was) that's nothing special. It certainly isn't something that a half dozen 17-20 year old's need me around for ('cept I can track like nobody's business, and my SM can call deer and turkey in from miles around). Venturing can't simply be Webelos IV. But: the tough part about being an adult Venturing leader: there aren't that many leaders like you. For example, I think my crew could have gotten behind auto racing. One of my venturers was a driver whose challenge was funding the car. His dad was a great mechanic, but on paper at least, terrible leader. So, I would have needed to find that co-leader who wanted revise his/her entire schedule to get youth around building a racing team. Plus we'd have to patch together whatever liability BSA would offer with whatever agreements would be needed to insure a driver. All this -- before convincing parents that this would be better for their kids then sports/drama or college/military prep. Finally, as much as I love pulling kids together, and I loved talking racing and mechanics with this one venturer, I wasn't prepared for that kind of sacrifice of camping nights it would entail. Now, as I described the potential scope of this crew, a lot of you policy wonks probably were hearing a bunch of risk-management bells and whistles firing off, you'd have something to tell me about those liability issues. Imagine some scouter like me - minus the thick skin - even voicing an idea like this at a round-table and you quickly understand why most crews are not even starting, let alone trying to continue under BSA's banner.

I did not realize that. A few years back I read about a GS/USA troop whose theme was shooting sports.

@JoeSmith, welcome to the forums. It's always sad to hear of a troop camping less frequently than expected. With the best of intentions, BSA's requirements were written with the expectation of a vibrant troop life. He prepared to cook for youth, adults wound up eating it. Everybody lived. Grey area. I say pass. When our troop was down to one patrol, the boys cooked meals for each other at meetings. Depending on if it was for a requirement, they might have cooked outside. What the requirements don't want is for a scout to do his advancement on this badge completely in isolation from a patrol/troop. It seems like your son was doing his best to integrate his advancement with troop life. I think most counselors would respect him for that.

For the troop, I would say any meetings and the first activity are recruiting events. Then we ask the guest, "Do you want to keep this up? Then, let's make you legit for the rest of the year." Then we tell the parents, "Your youth really wants to be part of our troop. What's keeping you from getting that paperwork done?" When I was with the crew, we were a little more easy going about guests. So we settled on a $5 surcharge from non-members for each activity. That way, when someone finally turned in paperwork, there was some coin in the treasury to pay for their registration.

The difference between sports, school board, trading, etc ... and a patrol is their objective. The former have a very public objective with lots of public accountability. The objective of a patrol includes 1) fellowship and 2) independence. The role of caring adults being present, based on its location, is protection from abuse. So, does @SSScout's suggestion minimize abuse? Maybe if the coffee shop managers are registered scouters?

The new scout's comment about GS/USA's potential vs. actuality of outdoor program should be a cautionary tale for us all.

I want to backpedal a bit on what I said earlier. If you want to care about the rules, you have to work in your district. Ask your DE if registering the mom as a merit-badge counsel is a good long term way to deal with this. Let's face it, if this patrol is any good, they'll want to meet often, and you want to be sure you encourage that to the best of your fellow adults' ability. But to make this work in the traditional way, you all have to figure out how you can be present, but invisible as often as the boys will need to gather.

I enjoyed when one anchorwoman talked about always wanting to earn Eagle, and they joked maybe it's not too late ... at least to help another girl along.

Welcome @MrsEBK, and thanks in advance for all you'll do for the youth!

Define "work correctly." I consider working correctly to be fulfilling vision of the pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates. So under today's strictures, to work correctly, a patrol would have a non-BSA meeting absent adults, develop a plan for an overnight camp-out, have a caring adult (sometimes called an SM) review the plan, improve the plan until it's approved, implement the plan (which, given two registered adults of the desired sexes would be a BSA campout, otherwise not), return and meet with other patrols (sometimes called a troop meeting), and report results. Given available adults this may count for rank advancement, otherwise it fulfills aforementioned vision. BSA considers working correctly to be keeping lawyers at bay while maintaining robust professional staff. So there, you would spend the cost of a couple of scouts' weekend camping to register your mom, only meet/camp/hike when requisite adults are available. This will result in 10% or more of your scouts being recognized with Eagle in any given year, at the cost of 40% of your scouts who could care less about such things and care more about pursuing a different vision of working correctly. With or without you BSA, what will it be?

BSA dragged venturing down by a thousand cuts. The worst being last years' youth protection mandates. What group of 14-20 year old co-eds would want to be dependent on the presence of two adults for every meeting and activity? Before that, the distinction between adult and youth participants put an effective wedge between members of a crews with a wide age span. Before that, the jump in registration fees exceeded the average cost of a weekend in the woods on borrowed gear. For late teens, it is now easier to fulfill the vision of a pinnacle scouting experience of hiking and camping independently with your mates --- without the BSA.