qwazse

Really? A sixteen year old can earn two or three MBs a month, meet the caring adults in her community at her convenience, use some of those learning experiences to enhance the life of her patrol and troop, be in control of her own destiny, have all the badges she needs plus a few for insta-palms by year's end ... and you think "extra summer camps" is a good idea? That's not being prepared. What if she can't go to more than one BSA camp? What if she goes, and hates it because all she has is MB classes that she doesn't care about. What if she goes and likes only one MB because that camp is ansolute best at teaching it and only wants to take that one again and again and again. What if she goes, and your venturer tells her about a really awesome two-week super activity that a crew she knows is doing next year? And, this is really important: your new adults have more to offer through their jobs and hobbies than they realize. If you endorse some stranger's MB program over their ability to provide unique opportunities for your troop, you are giving a vote of no-confidence to the people who will be keeping your program afloat for years to come. This is not a hypothetical. I've made lots of plans with older teens ... all of them were extremely diverse ... none of them involved extra weeks as participants at summer camp. They didn't all end aging out with Eagle rank, but they all achieved the aims of scouting. If after week 1, this scout really likes summer camp, let her know about additional weeks she may attend. But, don't link that with advancement.

@Cburkhardt, I think any other scout's particular written plan could send your scouts down a very wrong path -- especially if it winds up clashing with their interests. These older teens can review the requirements and plan for themselves. The venturer, especially should by now be skilled at back-dating from a target date to schedule a series of steps towards completion of an adventure. Most camp staff have similar opportunities, plus they should know how blue cards work. Scout C is a wild card. You almost certainly need to listen carefully to her interests and have her start on an MB of interest to her with a counselor you trust. Then when she comes back with her first blue card, you will have data to let her know if she needs to pick up the pace to stay on track. For mature scouts, I always suggest that they be working on an elective and required MB every month. Most scouts this age would do well with personal management, personal fitness, and family life. Weekend campouts are a must if they want to earn Camping MB in 18 months. Really, they only need to attend one summer camp so they can rack up 6 camping nights. Everything else they need for advancement they should do on weekends or evenings with their troop, patrol, or their friends. Your next few SMCs will tell a whole lot more about where to direct them than any timetable that someone claims worked for their scouts.

First, nobody *needs* to earn Eagle, but it's great that you have three great teens who want to within the time allotted to them. you don't want to take anyone for granted, but I suspect the 16 year old starting fresh will need most of your attention. She simply doesn't know scouts and scouters well, so you're going to need to make sure she gets connected to your better merit badge counselors, that she understands the first class rank requirements, and respects whatever younger scout may be her PL or SPL. We have similar issues with boys who join in their late teens. Sometimes they have a buddy who will show them the ropes, but they are often much more in need of adult guidance. Girls A and B are treading new territory. They will need to work a balance between troop and college. For them, you will need to constantly ask if they are having fun. A younger mom with a big heart might be a good mentor. On the flip side, their college classmates might have some cool things to offer your troop. Keep challenging them to find was to build synergy between their schools and scouting. I think this is a great opportunity for these girls, but your number 1 priority is building 1st class scouts. It sounds like you have a good idea of who is well on their way. Like any scout, you need to listen and watch and at SMCs give them honest appraisals.

It seems that 200K girls ages 6 to 18 is reasonable over the next four years. A lot depends on on the young women currently being granted an extension to make rank. Will many be willing to become SM's/ASM's in undeserved areas? Or, will the bitterness of being a marginalized keep them from committing to scouting for decades? Of boys and parents with boys: Based on the last disposal of "cultural war baggage," BSA can expect another loss of 1/2 to 1 million male members over the same period. TL/USA will successfully serve 200K of those, LDS another 200K, and -- as long as grants are being doled out for climbing walls and Maker activities -- public schools and secular clubs will serve another 200K. The internet -- especially 5G and 6G -- will make it possible for the remaining 400K boys and girls who are interested to execute the patrol method (by some other name) absent any governing organization. BSA will remain the largest boy-serving organization, but, like England, it will not recoup its male membership for decades. To do so will require a sea-change in the maximum remuneration to abuse victims, a return to formal recognition of unchaperoned activities at appropriate ages, and a careful analysis of what is and is-not working in other scout organizations around the world.

@Onslow, your job is to assist the SM (it's on the patch). Telling him everything that he's missing is likely going to cause him to tune you out. So, any progress that you make on that front will be in little nudges. Pick one of those things to work on. Offer to provide it for the SM. Recently, I focused on 1) giving the SPL his leaders handbook and sharing with him some useful web links and 2) sitting in on weekly PLC meetings. (These are short meetings, mostly after action review.) Mostly, I'm a fly on the wall. BTW, I've found the ASM patrol advisor scheme to be a next to useless division of labor. It's better to train the SPL, APL, guides, and instructors on what to look for. When you have your own crew that can help, as VLSC overlaps with ILSC quite well.

Well, here's the problem with the Aims being more than just executive summaries of other literature ... if they are more than that, you will always be left scratching your head about how your program has to change every time BSA rolls out a different version. The addition of leadership is an example. But, let's consider an omission, by taking one item from @Treflienne's quote of B-P's list: "to replace Self with Service" Is that not an an aim? Or is implicitly under character? It certainly falls in most closely with my working definition of leadership, so for me the it's now implicitly more strongly in the Aims than before. But was it ever really out? If you had a scouter who said to every family of every scout "Our aim is to replace Self with Service," would he or she be less effective of a scouter than one who said "Our aim is character, personal fitness, and citizenship?" I don't think an ability to quote the three (or four) currently promoted buzzwords will be a deciding factor. I am glad that aims are separate from methods, because methods are what we have to do with our particular groups. It's nice to know that I don't have to sweat the patrol method with venturers, or that with scouts can be developing leadership whereas venturers should be exercising leadership. It's also nice to know that outdoors isn't a method of cub scouting, but family involvement and serving the community is. When methods change significantly, I think we need to know. I think the YPT hurdles are changing the ability to implement some methods, and that's very sad. On the other hand I'm not sure what harm YPT does the aims, it's not like "make the lads individually efficient" has been explicit for quite some time.

A "troop supply room" is definitely a painful way to handle gear. Take this as me not trying to tell you how to do your job, but how make your job work for both you and the troop's QM(s) ... Assign things to patrols, not troops. I understand the temptation to use "pink" vs. "blue", but that will last until you have a boy leader whose favorite color is pink and a girl leader whose favorite color is blue and they compare notes one evening after overhearing adults carping about stuff. Your QM must tag assets with something durable. (I think there's an old thread somewhere about how to do this with d/o's.) And those tags should reflect patrols. (E.g., Wolfs get gear on the alpha shelf with alpha tags, Cobras get beta, etc ... If a scout can make an assignment board for you, that would be gravy.) The QM is not to scavenge kits for his/her pet patrol. Such a QM would be dropped in a day by any PLC that I've known. If alpha patrol needs more than its allotment of d/o's, it can ask beta patrol for a loaner. If it comes back wet, it goes to beta patrol to clean and season. Which scout actually does that is between the two PL's, and if they don't resolve it, the PLC will. You could have one troop or five sharing a space. It doesn't matter. From a QM perspective the gear is managed by patrols. If he tells the SPL that the equipment room is disheveled, the SPL(s) arranges for the PLC to have a clean-up day. In that process, the QM goes over with the PLs how gear is inspected allocated and shelved. The result in our troop has been sets of patrol gear and bins of spare parts. All must be returned cleaned. Note that I didn't mention QM form troop 1 and QM from troop 2. I'm not against that sort of thing if the two QMs actually work well together. But more often then not there's only one scout in 50 who is really passionate about polished gear. Nobody wants that person in a tug-of-war in a small room with someone who isn't as rigorous. And I guess that's where the rubber hits the road for a linked troop. It's all fine and good making space for boys to develop in positions of responsibilities as easily as girls. But in real life, two librarians, two historians, two QMs, etc ... under the same roof could do more harm than good. (Two buglers? That's actually kind of nice.)

'schiff, I'm having a hard time finding your exact quote in the reference you cite. The closest I can find is three pages in ... More telling is what's missing in 21 pages of encouragement to commissioners: the word "Aims" the word "fitness" (note its absence in the quote above). I take the gist of this to mean that "attractive, effective program" sits beside the aims (by any other name), and that scouters should focus their day-to-day activities on those bells and whistles that "attract ... and provide the opportunity for [youth] to have fun." I personally disagree. I think youth are attracted to boots-on-the-ground adults who care if they grow up strong and good. In fact, the Aims could be two: "strong" and "good" and our scouters would be just as successful. But, if some marketer comes along and says "nobody's buying strong and good, the buzzword is leadership (or whatever the new buzzword is). I'll nod politely. And, if I never get the memo, I'll be as happy-go-lucky as @SSScout for mostly the reasons he describes.

No, we agree. We should resolutely hew to the mission of the BSA https://www.scouting.org/commissioners/bsa-mission/ The section continues with Oath, Law, etc ... Then it references the federal charter. ... Then goes on to describe council and district responsibilities that commissioners need to know. Guess what's not there? Aims. What this tells me? If I hew to the mission and never learn the aims of scouting, my youth will be just fine.

With the membership losses over the past couple of years, there has to be more gear than boys need out there. For decades, most of us have been sharing with GS/USA, so this will be easier than most think.

So, here's my deal about Aims being largely superfluous for most scouters ... In my Junior Leader Training 4 decades ago, I was never lectured on the Aims. When I signed up Son #1 for tigers, I was never lectured on the Aims. When I became a committee member I was never lectured on the aims of scouting. When I became an ASM I don't remember being lectured on the Aims. Somebody may have told me what they were, but nobody said, "Remember these, or you'll be no good." The SM at the time we crossed over was a lineman who swore by the Oath and Law (along with Motto and Slogan) and said they were words to live by. One of the ASM's was our council (and later area) president, and he didn't waste breath on the Aims. The only concrete lecture on Aims came when I took Venturing Leader Specific Training. I chalk that up to venturers at the time using their own oath and code so they needed to do some verbal gymnastics to say they were cut from the same cloth as boy scouts. As far as I could tell, every effective scouter cared about the aims about as much as he'd care about a rodent's donkey. Why? Well maybe ... because ... the aims were written for people who never were scouts, never learned the Oath and Law, and would only write big checks or legislate in scouts' favor if the package was delivered in three (four?) executive summary points.

@AltadenaCraig, time to smell the coffee. The Aims and Methods are a marketing pitch ... no different than any mission or vision statement. As far as I can tell, folks think "leadership" sells, so "leadership" is in the aims. They think "character" sells, so "character" is in the aims. Even though a US president signed off on it, folks don't think "courage" or "kindred values" sells anymore, so it's not in the aims. This aspect of BSA decision making is not transparent, so without someone doing a PhD thesis on it, we may never know how or why these word-choices shift. Would you be a better scouter if your aim was "patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues"? I don't know. I do think that those four items are quite distinct from one another, whereas "character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness" overlap. And, "leadership" in my mind is redundant to all three. But, I also don't think any of this is mutually exclusive. We have scouters who say, "All I do is teach boys how to stack sticks and keep a fire going." We know that's not all they do. But, we also know that from their perspective, everything else flows from that. I'm not going to force them in their little corner of the world to restate their aims because some policy wonk thinks that new verbiage resonates better with the rest of the country. Do they mean something? Yes. Do other things have the same effect? Sure. That's why there's no panic in changing documentation.

Welcome @Onslow, and thanks for all you do for the youth. Venturing, eh? You're in for a wild ride.

Five years, and I am still trying to sort out how leadership is in any way distinct from character development, citizenship, and mental and physical fitness.

You might need to drill down to see if the units who dropped were also not doing much in terms of advancement in previous years. The other thing to ask is if the CO's have abandoned youth programming altogether or if they've taken up a different youth program.

I'll side with the scouts on this one because ... The skit is funny. Especially if the scout who plays the victim (let's identify him as scout-zero) is the one who introduces the skit wearing the clothes that are about to be "acquired" by the other scouts. Most things are in the delivery. Boxers, or briefs? t-Shirt? Is the victim strutting? Or, does he look like he's just been robbed? I've seen on-the-edge skits from a mixed company of scouts. They did a great job with the balancing act. I'm sure they had some help. I've watched as scripts that National thought were downright innocent go terribly wrong so badly that in presence of my female crew members half of the scouts in a large arena wound up booing at the concept of scouts vs. venturing. Had the organizers cared to vet the script by our VOA, I would probably have said that a partially nude scout streaking across the stage would be preferable. But, I'll admit to there being a "flip side" because ... it's a big country. There's no hard-and-fast rule defining inappropriate dress because some parts of the country think nothing of a scout-zero in a sketch putting on an act in his/her underwear for a few seconds. In parts, having seen that, the audiences night would be ruined. It's hard to determine how the scout would be "at risk" in this scenario. But in some parts, at some times, this could be a threatening act. Everyone knows that beating the pants off of someone is not to be imitated in real life (that's why the skit is funny), but you might have a group of scouts who have been behaving that way IRL, and their laughter would come from a very dark place. Folks with certain stock portfolios might also find this hurtful. The store performed awfully last year. So, the question is: how well do you know your audience? Your boys? Is there a way to deliver this sketch without coming off as mean or mocking cultural sensibilities?

Obviously, the bigger a den the better. But, it the odds of success increase with every 11-13 year old who is interested in a troop. Incoming members of diverse age, yet full of brotherly love is a big deal. Trained adult female leaders is essential. So incoming members who can bring a mature sister or aunt are invaluable. This may mean putting real $ behind funding the training of a younger SM/ASM (e.g. a 20-something college grad or ex-military). If the parents of these scouts aren't in a position to do that, they need to figure out how to ask for help. Finally, one of the biggest blessings is someplace special to camp. Who has property (maybe near a trail)? Whose grandparents have a farm? Which parent has done a favor for a park manager and can ask for a camping spot in a hidden corner of a a community park. Scout camps are nice. But it's really nice to have someplace special that your troop can call "its own."

I always appreciated adults who asked questions. I need to know that if someone sees anything out of place, they'll tell us.

Has your founding librarian built shelves? Procured a field box for literature? Collected the last two months of Boy's Life? Identified the pamphlets needed for the MBs scouts will take? Her job is far less bogus than an SPL's would be. In a one-patrol troop, the PL or APL can do whatever the summer camp asks of SPLs.

What others call ghost members, we might have called 1st class scouts back in the day. In other words, boys just having fun hanging around the troop but advancing slowly. Now if you have a lot of LDS packs/troops, it could be that in those units they were trying to wrap up advancement before closing their unit. The venturing is likely the insult of the YPT burden on 18-20 year olds. If they can't be trusted to assist a troop/pack somewhere, what's the point really? A scout trained for service cannot live on high adventure alone. Family scouting is bad news for some units. It will discourage some scouters. So, this could reflect that. My larger worry for some years has been that scouts are getting the bogus message "If you ain't advancing, you ain't anything." Honestly, I can thing for no worse recipe for membership loss than that attitude.

I've found this with venturing females as well. The ones who haven't had formal recognition as leaders before are really enthused to hold a position. They don't even care about the patch (especially if they weren't in GS/USA). They just want to be trusted with some responsibility. And the smile on their face when you give them a "well done" is priceless. If I were you, before summer camp, I would take a shot at teaching ILST (Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops) for PLs APLs and any youth interested in running for SPL. If one of the girls was a venturer, she may have taken ILSC. If so, you could ask her to lead the course. It really is intended to be a youth-coordinated youth-taught kind of thing. Obviously, schedules might be full and this takes up the better part of the day. Even if you can't fit in ILST ... if you are on course to have the lion-share of each current patrols at summer camp, I strongly suggest you move up your SPL elections to before you depart for camp. Two or three campouts is enough for youth to decide who they think would be a good leader for the week. I don't think you will regret having one youth and her assistant "on point" for the entire week. Really, PL is the much harder job at camp, and your patrols -- especially very new ones -- really need stable leadership. In this circumstance, the SPL basically fills out rosters assigning patrols to troop-wide responsibilities, leads roll call, and does occasional after-action review with the PLs (i.e., practices holding PLCs). At the end of the week, you can ask your camp SPL and ASPL if they are still interested in serving in September. They may not be because of other extracurricular obligations. Either way, your scouts will go into the fall with a better idea in their head about what to expect from an SPL if they see one trying to work the position for a week straight.

It makes no sense that they would "do a swap" just to get the SPL tapped out. All three boys could be elected as well as just two. So, if they were going to commit fraud, the simplest thing to do was change the vote count. Did you all have pre-printed or write-in ballots? I ask because one of the mistakes scouts often do is write the first name of one scout and the last name of another on the same line. I would have gone beyond the OA rep to the lodge advisor. Anyway, you're not going to have any peace about this until you confront the SM and/or CC and let them know what you observed. To do that before or after the lodge advisor chimes in? Your call.

@Cburkhardt, It's obvious there is a debate as to how many patrols have to be formed before a troop needs an SPL. It's a big country, so you'll have to make a boots-on-the-ground decision about that. I'm of the opinion that two PL's and their assistants can sit at a table and plan meetings/activities without needing an SPL. If they have a field of dreams a stick and some ball for duct tape, it's obvious who will be versus who in the first round of playoffs. They and their assistants and any other scouts who are making rank quickly can gather over breakfast/pizza and have the troop's first ILST. Like @DuctTape says, they can decide which position they need to fill first. Another troop has given them a bunch of gear? Maybe they need a QM. Donations of books? Librarian. Etc ... @David CO is absolutely right that a mature scout or two from another troop can be a godsend. That's problematic for troops of girls who aren't linked with a troop of boys (or, informally with a co-ed crew that does a lot of hiking and camping). But, even without that, after three months of real activity, the PL's and assistants who you have will be "senior" in terms of the leadership "school-of-hard-knocks." You and your ASMs can sit on the opposite edge of a big old field with one patrol in one corner another in the opposite corner and watch them normalize before your eyes. It's when you recruit a few more scouts and those two patrols are oversize that the calculus changes. They need to form that third patrol. You need to be in the middle of the field -- and they, at three corners. Your head is going to be turned away from someone. Therefore, a scout and assistant have to shuttle around and check up on them, then report to you how things are going. The PLC is now 6. The troop leadership is now the size of a patrol in its own right, teams now have to take turns on that field of dreams, and to make things like that work amicably, the lines of communication need to switch from mutual to hierarchical. You may already be at that critical mass for an SPL. Or, you may have scouts like @Eagledad describes, who looking at that handbook and thinking that they'd like that patch even though the position would be make-work. Regardless, the one thing you don't want to do is have an adult doing the work of an SPL. Better to leave the position empty or try to coach a scout up to that level than give any inkling to the scouts that they can let an adult steal their leadership development.

When you have three or more patrols (about 24 scouts), elect an SPL, it's that simple. What changes is the frequency that the PLC meets. Starting out, you may need it have weekly short meetings. Eventually the patrols will stand independently enough that you can space meetings apart.

Just a heads up: that link has some click bait that hijacks the page to present a fake survey pretending to be from Firefox.