qwazse

Thanks for the "heads up". Three of my crew (that has been very slow to adopt a uniform) just got elected to the council VOA cabinet. Two of them are very excited about buying the kelly-green shirt. I would like to take them to the scout shop and get this done at the same time. Now I know to call ahead and make sure they have the sizes we need in the same style. I honestly don't care which style, I just know they'll want to look sharp as a group (even the third one who won't admit it).

I don't think there is a caliber specification, but most of my youth who haven't shot before or rarely shoot want to gain/improve their target skills, so they prefer .22. The youth who have shot before and have good skills want to try different calibers/styles. Fortunately we have a number of NRA certified adults in our district who are willing to share toys.

If at all possible, we have scouts pay for merchandize up front. Most of them and their folks would pay us back, but people are blitzed with so much paperwork already that they don't always keep track of it all. So, unless someone on your committee is willing to politely "nudge" the late payers every week, don't even bother with fundraisers that advance merchandize.

Got lots of participation patches. My venturers (the non boy/girl scouts) still look at me funny when I hand them out after events. Despite the tone of some here, rank *is* something cool and admirable. It can be blown out of proportion, but it can just as easily be undervalued. Now I have had somewhat confrontational discussions in committee meetings with parents who expect every scout by their third year to make FC -- or every scout to advance a rank a year -- or whatever. I frankly have stated that boys making rank is not a priority of mine and it should not be of any scoutmaster. We teach skills. If the boys have the wits to get tested and get them signed off in their book, or on a blue card -- they advance if they don't, no big deal. We teach skills. But, that is because I *value* my bird and do not want it to be sullied by bunches of boys who were pushed and prodded by every adult in the troop to make rank. (Most have moms for that sort of thing.) Turns out, we have most boys making rank. We're up to our eyeballs in eagle courts of honor. Evidently, they like the program because most of our Eagles are old enough to have voted with their feet, but stuck with it. And, it's not any easer for them than it was for me. So, take away the 6/7 year advancement opportunity, and what do you have to offer an 11/12 year-old that isn't already being done in other youth programs?

Got lots of participation patches. My venturers (the non boy/girl scouts) still look at me funny when I hand them out after events. Despite the tone of some here, rank *is* something cool and admirable. It can be blown out of proportion, but it can just as easily be undervalued. Now I have had somewhat confrontational discussions in committee meetings with parents who expect every scout by their third year to make FC -- or every scout to advance a rank a year -- or whatever. I frankly have stated that boys making rank is not a priority of mine and it should not be of any scoutmaster. We teach skills. If the boys have the wits to get tested and get them signed off in their book, or on a blue card -- they advance if they don't, no big deal. We teach skills. But, that is because I *value* my bird and do not want it to be sullied by bunches of boys who were pushed and prodded by every adult in the troop to make rank. (Most have moms for that sort of thing.) Turns out, we have most boys making rank. We're up to our eyeballs in eagle courts of honor. Evidently, they like the program because most of our Eagles are old enough to have voted with their feet, but stuck with it. And, it's not any easer for them than it was for me. So, take away the 6/7 year advancement opportunity, and what do you have to offer an 11/12 year-old that isn't already being done in other youth programs?

Community service: the quality of Eagle projects surpasses that of other projects of similar aged youth. The communities in our area are hungry for youth to take leadership, in fact some local park boards have "wish lists" for prospective Eagles. Actually, they are there for anyone to take the lead on, but who does? Not adults who have to hold down multiple jobs to make ends meet. Not the ones that have time because they have to jet out to their vacation villas. Not non-scouts who could just as easily take on "mop-up" projects to earn the community service credits their high school may require. There is something about a boy *leading* a project that draws out the best in us adults and gets us serving in ways we never thought we would.

Community service: the quality of Eagle projects surpasses that of other projects of similar aged youth. The communities in our area are hungry for youth to take leadership, in fact some local park boards have "wish lists" for prospective Eagles. Actually, they are there for anyone to take the lead on, but who does? Not adults who have to hold down multiple jobs to make ends meet. Not the ones that have time because they have to jet out to their vacation villas. Not non-scouts who could just as easily take on "mop-up" projects to earn the community service credits their high school may require. There is something about a boy *leading* a project that draws out the best in us adults and gets us serving in ways we never thought we would.

We haven't had to deal with this issue, but in general our rule to the press or anyone from the outside is refer them to our council. If they don't have a scout who wants to join or a service we can perform for our community, we don't want to talk to them. We tow this line and only make public statments if expressly requested to do so by the scout and his family. Regarding the boy, he's a member of the troop until 18 (or a crew until 21). Beyond that he has to decide between his lifestyle and scouting. (Sounds like our loss.) Though offered, a portion of our 18 year olds (orientation unkown) turn down the opportunity to be ASM. I wonder what they would think if we flat-out denied them?

One other option (assuming you've talked to your son, he really likes this troop, and you have decided -- unlike others here -- that the COR's desire, although an imposition, isn't morally objectionable): 1. Let your son join, advance, etc ... 2. Find a venturing crew in your area that may need a co-advisor. 3. Assist their program (maybe help a young lady plan a camping trip on the dates your son is away with the good-old-boys). 4. When your boy turns 14 (or if 13 if he's finishes 8th grade early) offer him and his buddies (scouts or otherwise) the chance to join the crew. If they are still in the troop, they can register as multiples of both units. I know a Dad who advises a crew of 14 young women (bless him), and they can't do overnights under canvans because his youth's female parents (or adult sisters) won't volunteer to chaperone under "primitive" conditions. I talked to his daughter, and she is definitely disappointed about her circumstances. ("I'm a venturing president surrounded by 'girl scouts'!") Do you realize what a blessing someone like you could be in that situation?

Youth or adult, if you're goin to just sleep in shotgun, I'm swapping you out for a more talkative rider. Oh, and I require youth to plug one of their ipods into the stereo system. No "teenage ear binkies" in my tin can. Before departure, I circle up adults and repeat the "no convoy" rule because I once saw the car in front of me get t-boned. (Scenario described as per Pack212Scouter.) Fortunately nobody was hurt and there was minimal damage to both vehicles, but it was clearly our driver's fault.

How about a crew dedicated to building an airplanes? Each entering class gets a design and fundraises for parts. Over the years, assembles it and gets FAA approval. You fly your class' model on your 21st birthday. Graduates "buy back" their model by advising underclassmen!

I feel for you, bacchus. It about killed me to watch my IOLS instructor teach me how to fail to build a fire. There's this one episode of The Unit that would be nearly perfect for OLS-online. (Helicopter crashed, the guy had to treat his passenger for shock, build a shelter, start a fire, etc ...)

Based on previous posts, it seems that BSA has been the 800 lb gorrilla in LDS's youth ministry (via addressing racial inequities, training adult leaders, etc ...). It cuts both ways! At the same time, I don't think we would want to do anything to offend 15% of our youth membership or 33% of our units (small though they may be).

One that nobody mentioned: Does a troop have anybody your boy already knows from school or church? Sometimes a friend or two makes the difference in a kid sticking with it. (It can also work the other way, if the friend quits, the boy may, but I haven't seen that with my two sons.) Here's another one for moms: are female adult leaders welcome on any overnight activites? I'm not saying "required". I'm just saying that if dad is not an outdoorsman (or he's pulling double shifts in this tough economy) or if it's a single parent family, it's nice have troop that welcome whoever steps forward.

My past experience: My troop would camp on several occasions with the LDS troop. One included a "Sabbath" in which we had a worship service together then traveled home. The LDS troop's SM counseled me on a couple of merit badges. His boy did a two year mission stint, which was one of many motivations for me to do a similar thing after college. Net result, I earned a solid respect for our similarities without needing to make a list of differences. Since then, I haven't had a close affiliation with an LDS unit. But, I haven't heard anyone from council complain about them. I have a suspicion that there are a lot of LDS units that don't fit your 7-point mould.

Socialism or not, the lot of us are descendents of the folks who "up and left" whatever plot they were tilling (or ground they were hunting) at the time. Why go to Mars? - Because doing such a thing typifies who we are. The argument isn't when, but how. And although watching another human travel to mars is really nifty, being able to request that your own targeted image from a mars sattelite is insanely cool http://www.uahirise.org/hiwish/. I personally would be fine with another decade or two of robotic exploration. That red planet is big enough for dozens, maybe hundreds of 'bots. Maybe even a few that the controls could be loaned out to high school vocational schools. Or rented to the space-geek to control for a day or two! In a few years, this following could be a reasonable optional requirement for the space-ex merit badge: "Learn about satelites/or space robots that are available for public requests. Select one and make a request for a specific mission within the cabability of that craft. Report if the mission was implemented, and if so, present the results of the mission." This may postpone manned space flight to another planet, but it may better prepare the public for the challenges they will have to face.

E-92, I came back to the program when my son was in tiger cubs, and remember making conversation with a camp staff about exploring, and she proudly corrected me, saying she was a "venturer". Even though the program was not a year old the name was sticking -- at least with the youth who were "in." I felt a bit of "Rip Van-Winkle" syndrome. And yes, our crew's prototype t-shirt says "Venture Crew". Would have never noticed if I didn't wear it when assisting with VLST! Confusing or not, folks are generally happy to sleep in this bed now that it's made!

I offered this to do this for our troop one year and will never do it again. We have 30+ boys going to camp, and invariably no one evening is good for all of them. If not all the boys show up you're still taking those stragglers down for testing anyway. So then folks (adults, not boys) asked if I would set up two times to catch the boys who needed testing. I then had a revelation, we *pay* for that first day of testing at summer camp whether we do it there or not! Nobody is paying me or the boys who help me for doing it earlier. I decided I needed to focus my energy after camp: on the boys who couldn't make their swimming requirements for first class. Sure, camp staff might be stuck testing 25 boys who already know how to swim, but I've just relieved them of the 4 or 5 who need focused instruction. That way they can attend to boys whose troops don't have BSA guards and instructors in their ranks. Besides, instead of signing off on swim tests, I need to be doing laps. I gotta re-up my guard cert this year, and that 25 yards in 20 seconds aint gettin any easier!

I graduated from my troop before the venture patrols started rolling out. I liked the leadership corps emblem. When my oldest son joined the troop, venture patrols were losing favor. His troop never bothered with the concept. It was taken for granted that the older boys would sign up for more challenging activities -- no patch required. Pulling those old scouting treasures from the attic and showing them to your kids when they are little is a great way to recruit them into the program. I remember doing that with all three of mine, and they all are involved one way or another. As for names, you're not alone in the confusion. Ever since her officer's briefing, my daughter complained that "VenturING Crew" just doesn't roll off the tongue very well. I tried to explain the concept of name regognition. But she didn't buy it. A week ago, I was listening to youth from the National Venturing Cabinet try to figure out a new name for their area meetings. The term "Summit", which they started to use last year, is now supposed to refer to the location of the Jamboree. It just doesn't stop.

You're right MT - I had an excellent crew and an excellent committee on both the troop and adult side. But I also had this: - A crew in our council whose exisitence was "oppositional" to their troop. Like you described it was truly SAD. - The rumor mill that ignored the dozens of other crew-troop pairings (as well troops in close proximity) that operated successfully "by the book". - Paranoid adults who tried to protect us all from a rumored hypothetical scenario when 1) it was not occuring in our district, 2) there were no signs of it occuring in our units, and 3) our youth urgently needed us to stop bickering and step up to help them. - Folks who would use our "issues" to continue personal arguments that half the people in the room had no clue about. If it weren't for the youth being willing to forgive us -- if it weren't for them pushing us to do what the program says we're supposed to do in spite of our hurt feelings ... we would have been sunk. Like sherminator said, kids vote with their feet. So I guess one primary cause for mass exodus can be not listening to them ....

My son and I had a moment to review his scouting career and how I felt/acted about different situations that had come up between adults. It boiled down to this: 1. Listen politely to the folks with great ideas, suggestions, or concerns about the way things should be done. 2. Give utmost respect to the folks who do the work. 3. Do your work to complement the work of the folks in #2.

I've experienced the opposite of Moosetracker in the past four years. The boy scouts who've joined my crew stayed in their respective troops. The boys who left the troop before their 18th birthday were the ones who never joined the crew. At least half of them went to another troop, but it didn't gut ours. We still had those venturers! NOT having a crew around for our older boys would result in most of them finding no time for the troop. It would be a trickling away instead of a mass exodus, but the same result. We did have adults making it an "either/or" situation like what MT described. In the first year, they made a pretty big stink. Time and numbers made 'em come around. It didn't hurt that some girls tossed in a few service hours on some boys' eagle projects. I'm incline to chalk MT's experience to the adults wanting a show to run rather than wanting youth to lead the show.

Wide brim dark brown leather hat. Not BSA issue, but looks good with the scout uni, as well as our venturing crew's prediliction for activity in the Appalacian wilderness. More importantly, it sheds the rain and keeps water/snow from filling the hood of my jacket!

Based on meeting attendance at times, I know a few crew members who felt like "lone venturers".

Given that a good crew will eventually attract youth from outside school (ours did from the get-go), you should consider being charterd by an organization that is interested in attracting diverse youth from a wide area. Our school district allows the youth to promote crew activities. Just like most elementary schools let the BSA district executive or a nearby troop promote scouting. In fact my crew president is planning on visiting 8th grade classrooms to promote the program. They just have to add a disclaimer at the bottom of fliers saying "this activity is not supported or endorsed by the __ school district." Needless to say, rules are dependent on your school district, so talk to your superintendant.