qwazse

Prevention helps. We know in advance that father-son pairs can irk one another, so we dads have a pact that we will "ride herd" over one another's kids but not our own. I am always thankful when other adult leaders tell me (in confidence) how they've handled my sons' disciplinary issues, even if I feel they were too lenient. Frequent pow-wows at summer camp over how we've dealt with the tough cases of the day are really helpful. Our troop is blessed with some really experienced adult leaders who take time to camp with us, so their example in handling "tough cases" is invaluable. But when it gets tough. It's really nice to have someone who'll help you take a step back. Two-deep doesn't just mean get any old warm body. It means making sure someone knows how to run interference for you.

If you all haven't seen my recent replies on posts, the crew I advise has been slow in adopting a uniform, but ... After seeing another crew and their flag at a community gathering, a youth took it upon herself to sew us a crew flag. She's using the standard venturing unit flag as a pattern, and from what I was permitted to see so far, it looks pretty sharp. Now, the crew's not dirt poor. (She should know this, she's the treasurer.) We could buy a flag, but I'm always a fan of anything handmade, and she took up her first day of summer break getting started sewing. So I'm inclined to have the president move to adopt her handiwork as our official flag. Does anyone have any suggestions for any thing else formal that I could do in recognition? (Remember, this is a no-pomp-and-circumstance outfit, so forget any hour long dedication ceremonies.) Any controversies?

It's really not a matter of if you withold your reccommendation (right now it sounds like you don't want to give it), but for how long? Then, if you do so you may need to decide -- maybe along with your officers -- if suspension is in order.

I'd have to echo Bevah on this one. My first real rescue was when I was the only guy in a pool surrounded by swimmers (youth group, private pool) to identify a freind who was drowning. A simple "reach" saved the day with zero fanfare, but if it weren't for prior consecutive years of red-cross/bsa "in water" training, I would have missed it. My take on SSD is that it outlines the "minimum standard", and STRONGLY ENCOURAGES you to get "physically" trained adults and youth on your aquatics activities. If you're the only one in the group who has read GSS, and none of your adults have even practiced guarding in the past couple of years, be very concerned. For example, I'm re-upping BSA guard at summer camp in two weeks. The paper requirements are pretty much the same, but it seems harder everytime. However, it models the scout motto to our youth. And I rest easier knowing what to expect of myself and any youth who has life-guarding skills.

I see it in the opposite direction. We need to stand by the youth's choices (that includes choosing a crew with a particular uniform - or lack thereof) within the boundaries set by the program. If it means "educating" the board of review, when introducing the scout, so be it. ("It is my pleasure to introduce Pee-Wee Harris, currently sporting the uniform of crew ___, which is deemed appropriate according to BSA regulations for occasions such as this ...") Hopefully it will boil down to a few guys like Eagle92 sucking it their breath and moving on to more pertinent issues of character. And, after they've promoted a couple of worthy candidates, they'll accept that these boys are "by the book" -- even if it's not "their book".

I really owe the youth in my crew a lot of love and respect after reading this thread. But, dhendron, your crew members need to know that they will not be put at risk so someone can have a "safe haven" from their behavior in a sister unit. The crew officers are responsible for discipline within thier unit, so your obligation to them is to get them educated on YP. BSA has some decent videos on sexual harrasment and date rape. Even if they aren't making judgements (which in this case, it seems that's out of their hands), they need to understand why you are taking any action. What action should you take? The gold award is secondary. I would suggest a 2 month suspension. It gives the kid time to sort out if he wants to be in a group that frowns on his behavior. While he's away, keep an ear out for anything your officers might have to say on the situation. If he come's back and your officers deem he's shaped up, you can push the gold award paperwork a month later. The point here isn't to single out "slappy" -- he did that on his own --, but to let the crew know they have the right to demand a safe environment for themselves.

The best scout I ever knew got to second class and aged out five years later. My pack was not communicating well with the troop, if he didn't recruited me there'd have been one less Eagle ...

E-mail is not the perfect solution. But it definitely helps. Here's my suggestions: 1.a. Make sure the responsibility of tracking E-mails goes to the unit secretary. Sometimes that's a little tough because the best recorder doesn't always have the best tech skills, but if you can find a him/her a buddy to help with "best practices" then oversights will drop. 1.b. List-servers are helpful (groups.google.com is my favorite). The neat thing about these is that if someone misses a message, there's usually a web page that someone can go to to retrieve old posts. If your unit maintains a website they might offer something of the sort. (The downside -- esp. with venturers -- is that some folks only do Facebook/Yahoo/Twitter/Whatever and the'll throw up attitude when asked to create one more account.) 2. Make sure parents who don't get E-mail are partnered with adults who do. 3. Be very, very patient.

Thanks for the "heads up". Three of my crew (that has been very slow to adopt a uniform) just got elected to the council VOA cabinet. Two of them are very excited about buying the kelly-green shirt. I would like to take them to the scout shop and get this done at the same time. Now I know to call ahead and make sure they have the sizes we need in the same style. I honestly don't care which style, I just know they'll want to look sharp as a group (even the third one who won't admit it).

I don't think there is a caliber specification, but most of my youth who haven't shot before or rarely shoot want to gain/improve their target skills, so they prefer .22. The youth who have shot before and have good skills want to try different calibers/styles. Fortunately we have a number of NRA certified adults in our district who are willing to share toys.

If at all possible, we have scouts pay for merchandize up front. Most of them and their folks would pay us back, but people are blitzed with so much paperwork already that they don't always keep track of it all. So, unless someone on your committee is willing to politely "nudge" the late payers every week, don't even bother with fundraisers that advance merchandize.

Got lots of participation patches. My venturers (the non boy/girl scouts) still look at me funny when I hand them out after events. Despite the tone of some here, rank *is* something cool and admirable. It can be blown out of proportion, but it can just as easily be undervalued. Now I have had somewhat confrontational discussions in committee meetings with parents who expect every scout by their third year to make FC -- or every scout to advance a rank a year -- or whatever. I frankly have stated that boys making rank is not a priority of mine and it should not be of any scoutmaster. We teach skills. If the boys have the wits to get tested and get them signed off in their book, or on a blue card -- they advance if they don't, no big deal. We teach skills. But, that is because I *value* my bird and do not want it to be sullied by bunches of boys who were pushed and prodded by every adult in the troop to make rank. (Most have moms for that sort of thing.) Turns out, we have most boys making rank. We're up to our eyeballs in eagle courts of honor. Evidently, they like the program because most of our Eagles are old enough to have voted with their feet, but stuck with it. And, it's not any easer for them than it was for me. So, take away the 6/7 year advancement opportunity, and what do you have to offer an 11/12 year-old that isn't already being done in other youth programs?

Got lots of participation patches. My venturers (the non boy/girl scouts) still look at me funny when I hand them out after events. Despite the tone of some here, rank *is* something cool and admirable. It can be blown out of proportion, but it can just as easily be undervalued. Now I have had somewhat confrontational discussions in committee meetings with parents who expect every scout by their third year to make FC -- or every scout to advance a rank a year -- or whatever. I frankly have stated that boys making rank is not a priority of mine and it should not be of any scoutmaster. We teach skills. If the boys have the wits to get tested and get them signed off in their book, or on a blue card -- they advance if they don't, no big deal. We teach skills. But, that is because I *value* my bird and do not want it to be sullied by bunches of boys who were pushed and prodded by every adult in the troop to make rank. (Most have moms for that sort of thing.) Turns out, we have most boys making rank. We're up to our eyeballs in eagle courts of honor. Evidently, they like the program because most of our Eagles are old enough to have voted with their feet, but stuck with it. And, it's not any easer for them than it was for me. So, take away the 6/7 year advancement opportunity, and what do you have to offer an 11/12 year-old that isn't already being done in other youth programs?

Community service: the quality of Eagle projects surpasses that of other projects of similar aged youth. The communities in our area are hungry for youth to take leadership, in fact some local park boards have "wish lists" for prospective Eagles. Actually, they are there for anyone to take the lead on, but who does? Not adults who have to hold down multiple jobs to make ends meet. Not the ones that have time because they have to jet out to their vacation villas. Not non-scouts who could just as easily take on "mop-up" projects to earn the community service credits their high school may require. There is something about a boy *leading* a project that draws out the best in us adults and gets us serving in ways we never thought we would.

Community service: the quality of Eagle projects surpasses that of other projects of similar aged youth. The communities in our area are hungry for youth to take leadership, in fact some local park boards have "wish lists" for prospective Eagles. Actually, they are there for anyone to take the lead on, but who does? Not adults who have to hold down multiple jobs to make ends meet. Not the ones that have time because they have to jet out to their vacation villas. Not non-scouts who could just as easily take on "mop-up" projects to earn the community service credits their high school may require. There is something about a boy *leading* a project that draws out the best in us adults and gets us serving in ways we never thought we would.

We haven't had to deal with this issue, but in general our rule to the press or anyone from the outside is refer them to our council. If they don't have a scout who wants to join or a service we can perform for our community, we don't want to talk to them. We tow this line and only make public statments if expressly requested to do so by the scout and his family. Regarding the boy, he's a member of the troop until 18 (or a crew until 21). Beyond that he has to decide between his lifestyle and scouting. (Sounds like our loss.) Though offered, a portion of our 18 year olds (orientation unkown) turn down the opportunity to be ASM. I wonder what they would think if we flat-out denied them?

One other option (assuming you've talked to your son, he really likes this troop, and you have decided -- unlike others here -- that the COR's desire, although an imposition, isn't morally objectionable): 1. Let your son join, advance, etc ... 2. Find a venturing crew in your area that may need a co-advisor. 3. Assist their program (maybe help a young lady plan a camping trip on the dates your son is away with the good-old-boys). 4. When your boy turns 14 (or if 13 if he's finishes 8th grade early) offer him and his buddies (scouts or otherwise) the chance to join the crew. If they are still in the troop, they can register as multiples of both units. I know a Dad who advises a crew of 14 young women (bless him), and they can't do overnights under canvans because his youth's female parents (or adult sisters) won't volunteer to chaperone under "primitive" conditions. I talked to his daughter, and she is definitely disappointed about her circumstances. ("I'm a venturing president surrounded by 'girl scouts'!") Do you realize what a blessing someone like you could be in that situation?

Youth or adult, if you're goin to just sleep in shotgun, I'm swapping you out for a more talkative rider. Oh, and I require youth to plug one of their ipods into the stereo system. No "teenage ear binkies" in my tin can. Before departure, I circle up adults and repeat the "no convoy" rule because I once saw the car in front of me get t-boned. (Scenario described as per Pack212Scouter.) Fortunately nobody was hurt and there was minimal damage to both vehicles, but it was clearly our driver's fault.

How about a crew dedicated to building an airplanes? Each entering class gets a design and fundraises for parts. Over the years, assembles it and gets FAA approval. You fly your class' model on your 21st birthday. Graduates "buy back" their model by advising underclassmen!

I feel for you, bacchus. It about killed me to watch my IOLS instructor teach me how to fail to build a fire. There's this one episode of The Unit that would be nearly perfect for OLS-online. (Helicopter crashed, the guy had to treat his passenger for shock, build a shelter, start a fire, etc ...)

Based on previous posts, it seems that BSA has been the 800 lb gorrilla in LDS's youth ministry (via addressing racial inequities, training adult leaders, etc ...). It cuts both ways! At the same time, I don't think we would want to do anything to offend 15% of our youth membership or 33% of our units (small though they may be).

One that nobody mentioned: Does a troop have anybody your boy already knows from school or church? Sometimes a friend or two makes the difference in a kid sticking with it. (It can also work the other way, if the friend quits, the boy may, but I haven't seen that with my two sons.) Here's another one for moms: are female adult leaders welcome on any overnight activites? I'm not saying "required". I'm just saying that if dad is not an outdoorsman (or he's pulling double shifts in this tough economy) or if it's a single parent family, it's nice have troop that welcome whoever steps forward.

My past experience: My troop would camp on several occasions with the LDS troop. One included a "Sabbath" in which we had a worship service together then traveled home. The LDS troop's SM counseled me on a couple of merit badges. His boy did a two year mission stint, which was one of many motivations for me to do a similar thing after college. Net result, I earned a solid respect for our similarities without needing to make a list of differences. Since then, I haven't had a close affiliation with an LDS unit. But, I haven't heard anyone from council complain about them. I have a suspicion that there are a lot of LDS units that don't fit your 7-point mould.

Socialism or not, the lot of us are descendents of the folks who "up and left" whatever plot they were tilling (or ground they were hunting) at the time. Why go to Mars? - Because doing such a thing typifies who we are. The argument isn't when, but how. And although watching another human travel to mars is really nifty, being able to request that your own targeted image from a mars sattelite is insanely cool http://www.uahirise.org/hiwish/. I personally would be fine with another decade or two of robotic exploration. That red planet is big enough for dozens, maybe hundreds of 'bots. Maybe even a few that the controls could be loaned out to high school vocational schools. Or rented to the space-geek to control for a day or two! In a few years, this following could be a reasonable optional requirement for the space-ex merit badge: "Learn about satelites/or space robots that are available for public requests. Select one and make a request for a specific mission within the cabability of that craft. Report if the mission was implemented, and if so, present the results of the mission." This may postpone manned space flight to another planet, but it may better prepare the public for the challenges they will have to face.

E-92, I came back to the program when my son was in tiger cubs, and remember making conversation with a camp staff about exploring, and she proudly corrected me, saying she was a "venturer". Even though the program was not a year old the name was sticking -- at least with the youth who were "in." I felt a bit of "Rip Van-Winkle" syndrome. And yes, our crew's prototype t-shirt says "Venture Crew". Would have never noticed if I didn't wear it when assisting with VLST! Confusing or not, folks are generally happy to sleep in this bed now that it's made!