qwazse

... my son would not have as many friends from different schools and in different grades. and if it weren't for venturing ... my daughter would not have sat around a campfire discussing the manufacture of explosives ("you just don't get that in girl scouts"). ... my daughters' friends would never shout "Mr. __, we love you!!!" to me in the middle of a carnival. Still not entirely sure if those last two count in the + or - column. Just putting them out there.

"... ruined because his patrol was totally dysfunctional." I had an 17 y.o. boy complain about his "dysfunctional" family once. I replied "Have you ever gone a day in your life without food in the fridge? Then your family functioned."* Granted, you should screen patrols and shake them down as much as possible before the event. But, forming a patrol with other kids in your council is part of the experience. And the Jambo experience with a troop of young boys will be much different than one with old pro's. But, unless they completely missed the arena shows, I would not call it "ruined". Keep the minimum age for Jambo as is. If you want a 14+ year-old experience, promote a High Adventure Base or Venturing Area gatherings. Although I've known some 16 y.o. slackers that could bring a troop/crew to a grinding halt, the difference in maturity does make things run more smoothly. But, the only problem with such events: younger scouts miss out. *P.S. - I reserve "dysfunctional" for truly life threatening/demeaning situations.

SN, This is really good news. BS, tell your new bugler that you pulled some strings for him.

As MT mentions, some non-participants may be doing you a favor by staying out of your way. Others, you have to pour the sugar on when they even lift the slightest finger. ("Thank you for [x], it meant a lot!") They may catch on. The one's who do go all out: make them your best cup of coffee. Or, if they aren't reward-taking type, have the boys on the PLC sign a thank-you note at the end of the year.

Also, consider that -- all other things being equal -- moving a unit is more arduous than moving a couple of boys. (Ever try to bike slowly to accomodate a novice rider? Even after a couple hours every muscle in your body will be screaming at you!)

We do a mixture: The PLC tells us which camps they want to go to the following year. (Yes, it's come to a year in advance, even for council camps.) Based on lulls in the local school's schedule, we pick dates that *may* work. This is easy when the PLC is all from the same school and are in the same activities; otherwise, just get out the darts. SM goes to HQ on the morning of first day available (usually a school day) and pushes the paperwork for our preferred dates. Council makes it very difficult for this process to be boy led. As mentioned above, state parks / wilderness areas are much more user friendly, so we sick the boys on those.

Reservations (esp. at council camps) are tough. Develop some local options as backup. Back to topic ... the troop is visible in the community. Boys are recognised for accomplishments outside of scouting. (They may be the ushers in your church, on student council, etc ...) You may even find them camping in some local hollow!

I doubt these were pre-selected. It's one thing for a skit, but when prizes are involved there are serious legal issues with saying you're having a contest then "rigging" the outcome. In fact, depending on the state rules for participation and expected odds have to be posted somewhere. (Thus all the fine print on candy wrappers with "Wonka" type games.)

If your boys are on the move a lot, I've used popsicle sticks with a 1/8" hole in one end. The boys write their name in indelible ink. My "buddy board" is an unused chain fishing stringer. (Given my luck fishing, my regular stringer is always empty.) Buddies slide their tags into the same link in the stringer. P.S. - If you want to use those tags for more than one trip, you'll have to reinforce the hole with duct tape. Obviously, durability of materials or even the level of improvisation depends on your objective. But, the boys -- if they've been to camp more than once -- seem to appreciate the opportunity to improvise.

This must be a rule of conflicts: "The moment you think you have the upper hand ... prepare for resounding defeat." Sorry you experienced this in a Scouting venue, but it happens elsewhere.

Our SMC's (once paperwork is out of the way) are essentially prep. for BOR. For some Life scouts it's been years since their last BOR, so yes it can be nerve racking. Our "coaching" amounts to basic communication skills (think before answering a question, don't reply with more than was asked, etc ...) and reminders that the committee members are there to get to know the boy to whom they are awarding this badge.

There are some boys who I wish would have earned Personal Management when they were 13. Namely the ones who are now 15 and tell me they want to go to Seabase, but money's an issue. (Actually, the guitar/game/girlfriend on which they spent all of last summer's earnings is the issue.)

Interesting that no one mentioned the First Class requirement to invite a friend to his troop. It has done nothing to boost our rate of recruitment, and it has uselessly added time the already difficult task of tracking advancement. Maybe we need to require the boy to invite ten other boys. Or, maybe we should just strike that one from the books.

Hey, maybe he can drop by one of the shining light telecasts!

"Any kind of religious service is by its very nature is not going to be voluntary. When a leader directs a Scout (the Chaplain's aide) to perform a service and read a sermon, it is incumbent that all the Scouts and leaders attend that service." That's not how it worked in any unit I was a part of. First, our troops and crews are youth led, so we *ask* the Chaplain's aide (who volunteered for that POR in the first place) if he could organise the boys in a moment of reflection. (The boy picks a passage or devotional of his choosing. The troop Chaplain gives him options including Scouts Own if the boy asks.) If one of the boys (or young women if it's a venturing activity) asks to be excused, we allow that. At summer camp, if our SPL would rather not muster the whole troop to attend a campwide service, we don't. If some of the boys want to go, we arrange for leaders to volunteer to escort them. If some boys would rather not attend when the troop is going, we can find a couple of adults who don't mind keeping an eye on them. In all circumstances, it's made clear to our youth that devotions are strictly voluntary. Occasionally we have an adult who takes issue with that -- they hear from me pretty quickly. You know what would really be involuntary? Forcing all youth to abstain from ANY service of any kind by using the lame excuse that it's bound to offend somebody or their parents.

Last year when the 14y/o's had to wait to complete 8th grade, an advisor I met called them Venturers-in-Training. A few of the younger sibs to my current crew are starting to call themselves that. Look for a gaggle of VIT's stalking a crew near you. P.S. - Nice info about the letters and pins. Got me longing for the days when being in the "Leadership Corps" was its own reward.

Evry: "So, why should I feel pressure to be a part of this nonsense? Why should my son be subjected to this? Isn't this proselytization to the protestant way of worshiping that I totally detest?" 1. I think we all buy in to attendance being voluntary. And "nonsense" is a pretty harsh judgment. The folks who put these things together really do mean well, and most of them think hard in the preparation. 2. Your son is subjected to a plethora of religious influences. Have you written letters of complaint to the producers of every book, movie, TV show, and video game that foists a religious perspective on your son? 3. I know plenty of protestant families with apprehensions about such a service. It runs the risk of teaching a boy he can "get by" with some watered down, campfire theology. (I think that was Bevah's and John-In-KC's point.) So please don't call this "protestant proselytizing" -- it demeans the grand history of both words. But, please consider this: Telling the boys "Y'all go off and sit on your respective rocks contemplatin' for 15 minutes and keep quiet about it" is proselytization to a "you don't need a church/mosque/synagogue/temple" kind of religion. Moreover, by not providing ANY interfaith service, we teach "keep your god at home" and "disrespect any folks who may want to assemble for a religious purpose". Essentially, we fail to model reverence.

I've seen two SM transistions (the advantage of my oldest being 6 years older than my youngest). I agree with all of the above, but would think in terms of a 1 month rule: Month 0 - let your ASM's know Month 1 - make a formal announcement at the next committee meeting. Let them know you will be reccommending your replacement to the CO. Let the COR know that it is ultimately their call. Month 2 - let your boy leadership know - especially the ones approaching Eagle, let them know if you will be available to assist them, or if after X months you'll have left town. Month 3 - let the rest of the troop know and begin letting your chosen ASM start leading meetings, campouts etc... In fact if your gut says it's fine to make speed that schedule up and do everything in a matter of weeks, go ahead. If a decent set of ASM's has your back, don't worry about the boys knowing long in advance. Kids are really flexible. They can sort out the difference between future and current SM's.

Count me as "yea" even though I tend to just stick with our troop's meditations at summer camp. Those wind up being some derivative of Scouts Own. If I'm doing it, I have the Chaplain's Aid pick something from New Testament & Psalms. I think the point is to get the kids to set aside time. So longer moments of silence and less preaching and singing is a good idea. The real goal is to model this: if you're out on a day of worship, don't let devotion to your creator slip away. Sure Scout's Own is watered down, and if there isn't a merciful and loving God watching over these boys, it's pointless. On the other hand, if you think the higher being that you believe in might knock on some kid's heart if offered a moment of time -- even during a theologically vague service where time is the only thing sacrificed -- it might be worth that time. On the other hand, if you're afraid some lesser being may invade the kid's soul in that moment of theological ambiguity, I suggest you look up a less wimpy god.

I would pull the pain-in-the-but-SM routine and require at least two shake-down/conditioning weekends (similar physical challenge, not so isolated) before the event. Scouts must attend at least one to qualify. (Or if you think you need more than a couple backpacking trips to be sure of everyone's skills, require as many as you need.) You might even emphasize an age minimum and at least 1st class rank for every participant. No compliance? No event. I would have your JASM line up the dates for the training weekends, and relay the above "minimum" requirments. Then, have the younger scout take responsibility for training during the first weekend. Since you have a sibling issue that might get in the way, you might want to encourage the JASM to focus on training the quartermaster or some other boy.

This is good stuff, but not much different than VLST. Of course you need to recap some basics, but I think commissioners need to know some council-specific stuff: Who needs a crew? (Talk about some of the back-and-forth that was typed on these other threads. Selling points to a scoutmaster/youth leader, etc... Possibly identify some CO's that have yet to be approached.) What are the top 5 crews in your council doing this year? Names and contact info for the council venturing officers association advisor, committee chair, and executive (whatever you have). My crew got a good "jump start" by partnering with another crew on a Philmont trip. So I feel the whole issue of networking is a bigger deal when commissioning a crew vs. a troop. Add this to your syllabus, and I think you've got a primo class.

Outfitters are a good bet. An outdoor/sportsman's club that wants to extend its reach to youth would be a good idea. A church that want's to add a wilderness component to its H.S./early college youth ministry might also work. Each of these may come with their own set of caveats. (E.g., a business might want you to sport the company's logo, the sportsman's club might want a junior membership fee, a church might ask your youth to work on their Trust Award.) Or they might be like our CO (a church) which just expects us to be good and say grace before meals (and turn the lights out and lock the doors after we use the building). My knee-jerk is relationships trumps resources most days. Thus your "Portland Area Friends" sounds great. But, there's no harm if your DE can put you on to someone with resources looking for a relationship.

You know a division has "arrived" in this organization when there is a "vintage" uniform. My daughter and I did choose vintage. One youth told me the only reason he bought the new one was that there were no vintage shirts in his size. If he can find a vintage one, he will return the new model. Of course it wasn't raining at the time. Oh: no cigarette pockets.

Have the fun of being a crew advisor is handing out membership cards to young women, shaking their hand, and saying, "Welcome to the Boy Scouts of America." I don't think any name change is necessary. The young women who join this program (through the few channels they are permitted to do so) are proud of the association.

Plus, the leadership corps patch looked really cool. (Gold lamp, with a flame, on a read background.) Sthiker, find out from your stubborn SM why he would be uncomfortable with a Venturing Crew under the same CO as his troop. Then, find someone who has been known to work well with this SM, is willing to get Venturing Leader Specific Training, and can serve as the crew's advisor. Crews are crazy things. (As the above posts attest.) They are trying to attract the age range that the BSA has the hardest time retaining. They function best with appropriate training and teamwork.