qwazse

Floated JTE by my crew, and they were pretty much okay with it. I'll probably have them complete it in October by way of self-evaluation. Won't bother about the ribbon unless my UC makes his appearance around then.

Hey Bart, we low-landers have more air to slice through! But you are right about newbies and weight. I had one little sister of a lodge chief take her first hike with us, and I wasn't paying attention to how much gear she was volunteering to carry. At the first incline she was almost walking in retrograde! I grabbed her pack and it was twice as heavy as mine. Had to call my officers back, circle the group together and load balance. I was used to scouts who (being younger, and male) talk a lot of smack about who's pack is heaviest. They usually sort themselves out.

I sent off to the office of Health & saftey the concern about med forms.. I asked 3 questions.. Q. Is part C required for Woodbadge if Woodbadge is broken into under 72 hour weekends? Now, MT, why on earth would you go asking a question like that? Next time just request, "Can you please give our volunteers more work to do and make sure they spend another $10 - $20 to do it?" There's no box on part C for "Watching Movies on a perfectly good afternoon when you could be out fishing".

art - My daughter and I have the same tug-of-war with the kelly green venturing shirt. Because uniforming is not a method of venturing, and our crew uses t-shirts for uniforms, it's hard for her to accept that in situations where she is representing the council, the class-A uniform allows her to command respect. Without it, her colleagues become the "invisible officer's association." Yes the way the SM's handled it was rude. But when your scouts are representing their lodge, they want to do so in a way that commands the most possible respect from the units they visit. The SM's that don't say anything may still judge your boys. OA reps that look sharp for those few minutes in front of a troop or roundtable may actually get SM's who work a troop's schedule around lodge events. Those who don't may get boys who earn a sash and then disappear. So see what you can do about getting these boys uniform pants or shorts, socks, and workboots that are clean but look like they know the meaning of service.

When her daughters joined our crew, one mom was very nervous about backpacking with us. She felt she would drag us down because she was always left behind on family hikes. She was greatly encouraged on her first hike when the other adult leader and I stayed with her the whole time. We'd catch up with the youth at any crossing. It took a lot to convince her that really was our pace and we weren't doing her any favors! Her husband, a cross country runner, simply moved the girls along at a faster clip than most of us would care to hike. That pace suited most of my crew since they were all conditioning for sports year-round. To keep them in eyesight or earshot, I made sure I took them on poorly marked trails that would require a little "stop and think" on their part.

My SM and I recently decided, "we take bad kids." So hearing dish on a boy transferring isn't an issue. Sometimes its the boy who politely transferrs from troop X that will cause more grief than the boy expelled from troop Y. Regardless, our advancement committee chair would ask for the boys troopmaster records. Why? Because it saves typing and she's a nice lady so she's good at getting stuff like that. Regardless, the SM or an ASM would look at the boys handbook and ask him about the identity each person who signed on it. Why? Because we frown on requirements signed by relatives (or other adults) and want to see if the boy really knows the skills needed to earn his next rank. We may ask the boy up-front what kind of trouble he's going to cause us. Why? Because that way the boy will know that we do "cheerful" and "friendly" even when we know it might not be easy. We won't have much else to ask, because my experience is that anything bad that can be said about a boy will make its way to us faster than we could request it.

Not jumping on your case SP. E73, talk to your council about getting as many of your shooting instructors NRA certified. This is a huge bottleneck for any scouts who want to go shooting as a troop or a patrol. It is possible that your council will require NRA certification before accepting an individual as a MB counselor. And, brace yourself, similar certification from the NAA may soon be required from any expert on bowstrings and fletchings. As for the details: somebody asked someone else to make a rule. And this is what you get. It's not getting changed back without much pain. But, if you think it will be better for the kids, start the crusade by giving a call to the national office. (Now everyone who's tried this can jump!)

Tell your DE your troop hasn't saturated (reached all the 12-17 year olds in town who could be scouts), and because you'll jump through paperwork hoops for him, he'll jump through recruiting hoops for you. Your boys need to do a couple of p.r. service projects. Here are some ideas: - Build a pioneering "gatway" on the roadside into town. Weave "Welcome to ___, Troop ###" in the lashings. - Help the veterans place flags on Memorial day. - Hold a father-son event, like a fishing contest. - Provide color guard at the opening High School Baseball game. - Get a picture of your boys and the SM at a campout in the local paper. - Offer to hold a flag retirement service on Flag Day. Have your boys pick their three favorites and go for it. (Pick three because in all likelihood two will fall through.) These can also involve your Pack. The point is, you want people in town asking their boys (or young ladies asking their boyfriends -- it happens), "Why aren't you in that troop?"

Marriage has its adavantages. One of those is learning to say "I'm sorry" -- even when your sure you're right. Your "English only" adults owe the chatty Polish moms an apology. Not because what you think would help them and their boys "get with program" was necessarily wrong, but because you really do want them to feel welcome and your complaints about the language made things worse, not better. You do want things to get better, right? Then encourage each Anglo mom to invite each Polish mom over for dinner, or to go dress shopping, or a simple play date. You may offer to take their husbands (or other male family, they're single moms) fishing. It takes years, sometimes, for people to feel comfortable talking in a language they have never learned from their youth. You could offer $1000 and they wouldn't get it. Offer friendship, and they'll do it in a couple of months. Besides, that's the only way you're gonna find out if there's any real dish about the Cubmaster!

Yep, this would have come in handy for youth to know on several occasions. But, it's not that the youth that I'm thinking of weren't trained -- so, dS15, your real goal is to bring it the YPT points home. I think you tell the kids up front: "I'm teaching you straight from the book because this is what we adults have to learn. You need to know how to expect us to behave, but you also need to know how YOU need to handle things." If the camp director is around to lay out how he would implement YPT among staff, it would help nail your talking points to something practical.

Yep, your troop can block advancement on so many levels until the boy shapes up. Nuff said. Mom's family Eagles? Ask her to call Uncle or Grampa and see if they'll come camp with the boy.

So, Scout Mom, your son "outsmarted" the bureaucracy without knowing. Star and Life ranks are managed by your troop, so if the troop decides it needs an LNT Instructor, and a boy who has been trained "unofficially" steps up and serves his unit, it's an official position. The Eagle application, requires the boy to report: - His date of birth, - MB's earned in his scouting career, - Date Life Rank Was Earned, - An approved and completed service project while Life, - Nationally approved positions of responsibility held while Life. - A completed Eagle Scoutmaster Conference A council has a responsibility to validate all of those before forwarding to National. So if your boy is doing a unique POR, make sure you and your SM are clear with your council's advancement chairman that everything is on the up-and-up.

Well, thanks everyone for taking this thread down a beaten path. We all agree that Eagle has it's perks. Let's just keep in mind that our goal is not to give boys "perks", but award boys who measure up.

My opinion differs from E92's. Be very careful of offering to do anything "just this once". You'll waste no more time if your SPL's first PLC is a little rocky and you coach him afterword (or, give the SPL the first 15 minutes of the meeting and ask him to hand it over to you for the last 5). Think of it this way: your SPL has 12 months (maybe 6 if you have your way with biannual elections) let's assume that that means 50 meetings (including crackerbarrels at camp) and maybe 25 PLC's. (Those are large numbers, but I'm rounding.) Consider every one of those where he's not front-and-center as a squandered leadership opportunity. One PLC where you are in charge is 4% of the PLC's that you miss out on listening and guiding your boy. (That percentage is the minimum. It'll be larger if numbers of meetings are fewer.) I may catch flack for telling a youth to skip the "Demonstrate" in EDGE, but keep in mind that your SPL has seen meetings before, he just needs to find the style that will work with his PL's. And, as you may know from my other posts, I believe a book in the hand can be very enabling. Enjoy the JASM gig. I'm sure you'll do a fine job.

I can imagine a situation where a boy may request FOS. For example, if and FOS-supported summer camp was his only vacation and maybe he went on a campership, this could be his way of "giving back" or shining a light on a program that brought him to where he was. Eagles have full reign over the format of the ceremony. In principle, most boys stick to whatever traditions their troop has. I'm glad yours was a touching moment, and I hope many more boys with think to invite you to theirs!

After several incidents which lead folks in our troop to part ways -- and an inability to get certain scouts to go check out the new troop -- I think we get the Calvin! Oldest son fessed up to mom that during a backpacking trip he found himself explaining to his amased college buddies "well this how my dad taught me ..." Gimme points for not replying to mom, "See isn't it good we didn't waste vacation time on cruises?"

ES2010, Here's the "dirty little secret" about boy-led. As soon as it comes together, that group of boys moves up or on or out and you're starting all over again. On the other hand, that's what makes it fun. For example, our SM assigned patrols. For a couple months they would sound of Patrol 1, Patrol 2, Patrol 3. Every time, I would yell, "Are we in cub scouts? Dens have numbers, not patrols!" It took them a while to catch on. Still no flags. But at least the PL's are starting to work a little better together. They actually have appetizing meals planned for the next campout. For your meetings, I have two words: Dodge Ball or maybe these two: British Bulldog or more generally: Opening Activity Here's another: Sing (Do guys still do that? You know, it's what those little folks inside the MP3's do when they're not cussing.) I have little patience for meetings that go over 20 minutes, so there's no reason to expect your boys to tolerate 90 well. You literally could accomplish a PLC in part of the time you have troop meetings. So give your boys a chance to have a little fun before flags. At the 60-minute mark, dismiss the troop (younger boys could have SM conferences or boards of review while they wait for their parents to come), pull your youth leaders aside (as JASM you may have to bring a chocolate bar or some other officers privilege) and do a "what went well, what didn't go well, what should we do differently" review of the meeting. You'll have to put your opinions on the back-burner for this, the goal is just to get your key guys listening to each other. After a couple of these "on the fly" PLC's, you may get the boys figuring out if the "two knots a night" routine needs revamping.

And this is why we can't have an English exam for citizenship, too few of us know how to speak it in the first place! Actually, this happens in other languages too. For a while I lived in a town in Italy where the word for "little boy" or "little girl" was a patent obscenity in standard Italian. Other Italians seemed used to this peculiarity, but for the folks who learned Italian someplace else it was mortifying hearing the mama's shout F-s, come home dinners ready!

May not be your case, but I know some folks who saw their "you're-my-only-unit UC" as intrusive ... sort of an SM-emeritus. Probably if that fella had 3 other units to attend to, he could have balanced out that impression. On the other hand, the SM may have just been taking things a little too seriously. Don't know how you guys would factor any of that into the numbers game!

Gunny, Sarcasm noted. Sometimes it sinks in when I try to remind adults that for a brand to be worth anything it needs to be defended. So it's our responsibility to make sure Johnny-come-lately with the bad attitude does not tarnish the brand by getting it undeservedly. Edad, I remind youth that it's not about the medal, it's about the character that causes others to award you that medal. If you don't earn the award, simply maintain good character and eventually you'll get whatever benefits the bird on your chest would have got you. Sherm, I agree, First Class should be the BSA "seal of approval". A boy should be proud to put that on their resume. But even if it were so, I bet we'd still see these down-to-the-wire scramblings for FC, because sooner or later someone would make it about the military pay grade or scholarship or whatever.

Thanks for the feedback. I guess we're pretty much agreed on the "inform, but don't babysit" 17y.o.'s. Is it about leadership? Or about outdoors? Well, my oldest just came from a spring break backpacking trip with his college fellowship. He got the fire started (without fuel or starters) after a wet first day. He helped his team ford streams safely on the last day. He helped in the decision to call the trip early because conditions were not getting any better and the newbies were taking a beating. Was he showing leadership, or just outdoors skills? Don't know, but I think he pulled off that caring adult thing quite nicely.

We had an Eagle candidate recently who butted up against his 18th birthday and missed his bird because of a "90 days recording" requirement on one of the merit badges. At his Life scoumaster conference (just barely 6 months earlier) we warned him to start those early. He worked on his project and completed it on day 363 of his 17th year, then ran around chasing counselors on day 364. I guess he was under the impression that he could "cook the books" on the MB. He kept telling us he had things under control, when deep down we suspected he was fooling himself. Anyway, when do you Scoutmasters tell the kid it's over and any badges earned or projects done are "just for fun"? - Obviously, if a boy earns Life at age 17, 6 months, and 1 day, we tell the boy it's time to have fun and not sweat the medal stuff. - But, at age 17, 9 months, and 1 day, do you call it if the boy can't produce a chart for a yet-to-be-earned Family Life or Personal Management or Personal Fitness with at least day 1 filled out? -- Or, do you let the boy a blue card keep going to the MBC so he at least learns something in the process. Then, count on the MBC to give him a little tough love when it's the day before his 18th birthday and only 89 days or fewer of his chart are completed? Committee chairs chime in too, because yours is the last signature on those applications! MBC's I don't want to hear from you if you're inclined to give a little slack, but I do want to hear from you if a boy comes to you with no chance of completing a badge but willing to work on a partial.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

224, Unless someone from your troop wants to take over the district activity committee, don't expect change. Lot's of troops play fast and loose with their schedule, so there's probably no motivation for the folks planning events to change. Instead I'm suggesting pulling little from the "if you can't beat 'em ..." playbook. I'd stay the course with your troop's meeting day and delegate a committee memger or ASM to attend RT. Some guys on district committee "don't do E-mail" so there's no point in even asking these hard working fellas to get you advance notice. So train your CM or ASM to be a "taker" when it comes to info. If someone even hints "hey we're thinking of doing X in the fall", your guy/gal should hound them for the usual "who", "what", "where", "how". Every month your RT attendee needs to compile a list of "things in the works" at the district level and hand it off to the SPL. The following week, your PLC reviews that list and decides if anything on it warrants a change in the troop calendar. Yes, this may mean you'll have to flex for something your boys decide they really want to do. But hopefully this will give you a little more than that one month lead time. And, when your district commissioner talks about not seeing your troop for a while you can say, "I ran it by my boys the week after it was announced, they didn't bite!"

Bottom line: the IH and COR(s) need to be on the same page with respect to the adults they let lead the units. If one of them feels uncomfortable with the selection, the issue is probably a non-starter. Of course, you have the right to get both of them in the same room and have a sit-down so you understand everyone's thinking before you spin your wheels to suggest another adult leader. Don't expect to get an answer you like -- just a little more clarity so this doesn't drag on for many months.

Looks like you got some solid advice. And your story seems a lot like mine. Adults in the troop have really worked hard to build up inventory. So half our trips we use patrol boxes, half we travel light. Our crew/troop operate pretty closely together. But, in spite of many offers, the crew has opted not to "own" any of the troop gear. One of our goals is to get the youth to invest in gear that will carry them through the college years. So my role as crew advisor: 1. I don't put a hitch on my van. This spares us the temptation of borrowing the troop trailer. 2. I train crew QM to "listen" for what youth need, "look" for avid backpackers who may have hand-me-downs or loaners. 3. My committee keeps a close eye on those garage sales. 4. Thus our troop QM is more of a gear keeper (configuring camp boxes, etc ...). While our crew QM is more of a librarian (trying to keep equipment in circulation). This covers the youth who want to try hiking before throwing down mucho $$ on stuff they'll only use once. Also, most of the boys that come from the troop have the gear they need and some skills to teach new crew members. I suspect your troop will operate in some middle ground between what our troop and crew does. The real issue: determining what you will maintain as community gear and what each boy needs to maintain in personal gear.