qwazse

I would like to point out that Kudu's way of instructing is 1. Deconstruct our presupposed existing models. 2. Give us a reference. 3. Challenge us to apply it. 4. Trust that we will refer to it as needed. The reference he gave us follows roughly the same model. (Its references are the Patrol Leader's HB and Boys Life.) It's very clear that the method is not a one-shot deal. It needs to be implemented repeatedly (about 12 times a year). New trainers (i.e. patrol leaders) will be continuously cycled into the process. It will require constant monitoring. But, it sure sounds like fun!

Ours is titled by an individual. (Not me, thank goodness.) I think the SM is the current holder.

Seems a monumental waste of time better spent helping boys. I use EDGE with my boys, I teach my boys to use EDGE, the have grown because of it. In doing so I believe I'm also teaching them how to be law abiding citizens instead of throwing out those laws/rules/requirements they don't agree with. The ability to repeal needless laws is a foundation of our constitution. I think my boys will be better citizens if they learn what EDGE lacks, rise to authority in the national cabinet, and strike down these requirements. I'll change my mind if the youngn's taught by your EDGEers are more competent than the youngn's taught by my Handbookers. If somebody comes up with a better rule than "Reach, Throw, Row, and Go (with support)" for teaching water rescure, I'm open to it. When folks figured out that compressions-only had a higher success rate, I asked my re-certification instructor how soon the rule would change. I don't consider any of those discussions a waste of time because that's what distinguishes rescuers from shamans! If EDGE is indeed better than reference-based instruction, if in fact requiring the use of books in every facet of education had nothing to do with the West rising out of the Dark Ages ... well, then let's EDGE away! But if you have your doubts, relay them to your boys. They might actually learn how to teach in the process.

Either way, as CC, you'll have your hands full. I see some practical things need to be done. Hopefully keeping busy with these will take your mind of politics: Troop which was on the verge of collapsing until we showed up (i.e. it had -zero- boys and the equipment seems to have been taken by a Venturing crew). Do you know the Venturing crew advisor or president (youth leader)? They may be clueless about your equipment needs and happy to return or at least share some gear. Moreover, some of them might be more than willing to support your program by providing training. (Teaching skills to other youth groups is part of the requirements for a Venturer to earn awards.) If you are really really lucky, one of them might be SM or ASM material and looking for this kind of opportunity. Have you met leaders from neighboring troops? District roundtables are useful for this sort of thing. There may be programs that the boys would like to know about, and if you keep track of them, that might help the SM. basically went AWOL for football season and most of the preceding summer Are there good spots to camp near your home football field? (Maybe a farm or some community park.) Perhaps a parent in your troop could provide a bonfire after a game. Understand that some troops, except for camp, simply don't meet in the summer. It's just too hard to keep things rolling. Ask your SM if this strategy will work best for him for this year. See if there's a weekend where you all can gather for a picnic or easy going camp-out in the summer. works at the scout shop That means he's a council employee. Get to know his boss because he is probably also your scout exectutive, and sometimes this disorgnization (just like your unwillingness to dive in) is work related. Of all of these avenues, only one of them may pan out, but that's one more resource than you had before. Then point out to all of the parents that you've done this stuff (or whatever), and ask what are they doing? The goal is to make your SM's foibles a small issue because everyone else is pitching in just enough to make sure the boys have the program they signed up for. Then, you sit down with the SM and COR and say "I need to start finding my replacement. Don't know how long it will take. What about you?"

Maybe snake oil is too harsh. Placebo may be more appropriate. You can use the term to make you feel like you're doing something standard and novel. That gives you the confidence to know what your doing is "right", you press forward, apply some creative juices, add a few steps, lather rinse repeat, and success!!! It's the stone in the stone soup. Maybe someone observed that the villagers were starving for no good reason, and said "If I plop an acronym in the pot the villagers (scouts & scouters) will bring out their veggies and stock (raw talent) and this soup'll get cooked faster." I'd just like to know who that guy was and which village he tested it on!

put simply, the higher the profile, the more likely you will have a parasail than a tent. You'll need put out extra lines to anchor the thing on windy days. I carry aluminum poles from a retired dining fly to reinforce our rectangular dome tents against the wind when we camp on the beach. A pole goes diagonally across the front of the fly, leaning into the wind. A variety of stakes is also essential. Sand vs sod vs rock require different style and types of steel. The harsh reality is there's no one-size-fits-all. If all of that complexity is overwhelming, you may want to just bring a small rack with hooks for a tarp to put over your gear. Park it on the upwind side of your tent as a windbreak.

Don't let the swagger of Eagles fool you. Most of us know that there was a bit of good timing, grace, and positive reinforcement that went into getting us our birds. The best scout I ever knew aged out at 2nd class. When I was 12, he invited me to come join his troop.

99.9% of the time, a person will use EDGE in one form or fashion without even knowing it. So why require one to follow it? What are the ill effects on someone who is taught by the one scout in 1,000 who doesn't intuitively use it? In other words, why waste the ink? The text-message answer to those questions is a resounding IDK. Counter example: More than 50% of the time, I'd wager, the intuitive instinct when seeing a distressed swimmer is to "Go (unsupported)". It's probably what humans have done since prehistory -- to deadly effect (maybe 20% of the time). Imparting "Reach, Throw, Row, and Go (with support)" -- even though it doesn't make a spiffy acronym -- has prevented the untimely death of many ad hoc guards (probably myself included). Is there a teaching method that, applied universally, adds that kind of value to every boy's outdoor experience? If so, require it. If not, do what we often tell our SPL's: think before you make a rule you have to live by.

Well, by your description they used the EDG method, but I think with the Webelos being somewhat out of their environment, they did it right. Before even joining your troop, these potential cross-overs know where there's a troop of creative older boys to help them. Here's hoping that translate into a bunch of new scouts ready for summer camp!

jam, My oldest son was camping with his buddies after his wolf year at cub camp. So the transition wasn't too hard. His friend's dad and I just pitch are tent a little futher away from the boys. This actually made it easier for us to get to meet the older boys, some of whom would be his mentors in other school activities. My second son crossed over and I was already ASM. There was one cold evening when I was 300' away, and in the wee hours he was standing outside my tent complaining about not being able to sleep. I let him come in and hunker down. Three years later, he's an independent boy scout and venturer just like his brother was. My point is: same troop, same rules, different kids. You adjust. If you like camping, keep going out with the troop. If you like fundraising, pushing paperwork, or organizing adults ... please, we need you! Those of us how like to be in the woods all the time are terrible at that stuff!

Macmom, Congratulations, and you have every right to be proud. Restating what the posters said, all badges earned at any rank count for the total of 21. Although I'm against pushing Life scouts to knock off their rank requirements in 6 months (unless, they're 17 1/2!), if a boy likes earning MB's let him have at it! One thing I encourage boys to do is start on Personal Management and Personal Fitness before camp. Why? Because camp can cause unique challenges for fitness of body and wallet! When they meet with their counselor at the end of summer they can evaluate how things went. (E.g., did spending go a little overboard at the trading post? Could you find a chin-up bar in the woods?) Other than that, have the boy identify the badges where camp is an ideal place for learning because you don't have access to the facilities at home. Hopefully one or two of those will be required. If not, have him start getting counselors' names and numbers and making some calls.

There's no standard formal process. The troop may have one, but I doubt it. Just let the SM know if your DC is showing up at the den and pack meetings or calling you in a timely fashion if he can't make it. If some real positive synergism is happening between the DC and your boys, let the SM know that too. It might help determine the lad's next position of responsibility. Oh, and as a former den chief, it really meant a lot when the DL came up many years later and thanked me for helping her boys.

Hey Doc, cut us a break! Some of us our too busy making a living to be famous (yet)! For a contemporary panoply of Eagles, I suggest Legacy of Honor, by Alvin Townley. Sheer numbers dictate that there are more public figures who are Eagles now than ever before. Townley's research makes that very clear. I would suggest that the closing show montage tells more about the folks who made it than about numbers of Eagles in the public eye.

Cart before the horse. YPT and other Saftey principles don't gain their importance because they are in G2SS. Rather, G2SS is important because these common-sense concepts are in one place. When my coeds talk (jokingly, thank goodness) about sleeping arrangements, I tell them it's a YPT violation, not "the G2SS tells me so." If a youth life guard is operating in my aquatics area, I refer to safe-swim and safety afloat, not G2SS. Heck, at that moment I really don't care if the kid gets YPT or gun safety at all. I do care that he/she knows how to prevent the death or injury of the swimmers/boaters in his area. If kids are throwing 5 pound rocks at each other (nothing in G2SS about lofting projectiles), I'll rudely interrupt them. If they are pointing little red lights at each other in a dark room, I'm not getting in a huff about it. (In terms of safety, that is. I might pull out the "scouting is outing" speech.)

Okay, here's an excersise for former scouts or older scouts. It might be a fun reflection and fire the brain cells in a different direction. (But, it may mean leaving your terminal for a bit.) 1. Go find your merit badge sash (or blue cards if you were really that much of a pack rat). 2. Look over each badge and try to recall your MBC and how he/she instructed you. 3. Post some of your memories (methods you liked/didn't like, what worked/failed). 4. I'm trying to think of a fourth step, but it wouldn't spell anything anyway. That's it. Have fun.

emv - How is this [asking for a book to start an MB] a problem? A Scout is thrifty. It's not a big problem, but sometimes my scouts come off with the impression that you won't learn if you don't have the book before you even phone the counselor. I'm not sure if that's because of my "start with the Handbook" approach. But truth is MBC's have varying opinions of the BSA materials. They have varying teaching models. My 1st aid MBC was an "Explain", "Enable" kinda guy. I sat on his porch being told what to do, doing it, being told what not to do the next time, doing it again. All the while he and my dad engaged in small talk. His reference, which he loaned me, was an outdated Red Cross manual. If I made the effort, I'd probably have a different story regading teaching style and method for each badge on my sash. Experiencing that diversity is part of the game, I guess. (ooh, there's another topic).

Ya Skep and Sherm, I don't have any problem with EDGE or any other method being in the book under a heading "How to teach a scout skill." Sort of like the chapter on different kinds of fires. I would much rather the requirement be "Teach a friend how to tie a square knot. Tell a leader how you did taught him." I would phrase the Life requirement similarly. Maybe including, "Explain why you chose the teaching method you used." Should this happen naturally with positions of responsibility? Well, if you and your scout parents have bought into the boy-led stuff, yes. If your troop is Eagle milling or helicopter parenting, not so much. So, I think these requirements exist as much for parents as they do for the boys.

For the record (I've said it elswhere) the best thing we can give our youth: Read the Handbook, Have them Read the Handbook, Do the Handbook, Have them do the Handbook. That way, when they don't have you, they have the handbook. My problem: I have a bunch of boys who when they want to start a merit badge, ask me if we have the merit badge book in our library.

Skeptic, I would be with you up until ... Once they have the ability, then make sure they know what EDGE means in case someone gets "technical" with them in a review (though that might be retesting?). If upon review a boy tells me "Sir, I forgot what it stands for, but I taught all the kids in my NSP how to secure the ropes on the trebuchet that launched a nalgene from our patrol site into SM Kudu's tent." Guess who's advancing to the next rank with no further questions? Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm setting up the kid for a life of failure. But I don't think Kudu's moving his tent a foot further away just because a kid can recite EDGE. P.S. - Guy, thanks for the reference. Wiki or otherwise, it's more than what I had before.

First, this is entirely up to the SM. Second, have them fill out a tour plan. If the SM and CC/COR approve it, it becomes a sanctioned scouting activity. If it's a bad plan (the parents haven't got trained, the troop frowns on video watching, location of campsite is too tame) in the SM's opinions (not ours, not yours) he doesn't sign it. The boys venture into their backyard on their own. Worst case scenario: no accidents happen, they boys actually perform some act of heroism, and the BSA doesn't get credit for it.

Our CO is a church, but they are very aware that young men and women from all over the community are part of thier units. So, they don't impose much. We make it very simple: 1. Say grace before meals. 2. If we're out on a Sunday, have devotions. (5 - 15 minutes) 3. Discourage cussing. (Not only because it is discourteous, but because folks consider that an offense against their God.) Usually it's the chaiplain's aide who picks the devotion in the troop. In the crew, we find a youth volunteer. The goal is to bring each youth's religious sensibilities to the table. (Rather than -- as happens in a lot of institutions -- try to sweep it under the table.) So that's our routine, but there are some other special things ... - Encourage youth on Scout Sunday/Sabbath they to wear their uniform or ask their clergy to recognize scouts in the worship service. - Encourage youth to consider service projects at their place of worship. - For the venturers, when I have the officer's briefing and the topic of discipline comes up, I remind them "I know where each of you go to church, I'm holding you to those values." Obviously as a COR, these would be personal suggestions you offer the SM and Advisor so that they know the VFC is offering them a lot of lattitude -- not requiring them to do anything in particular. Beyond that, you do have the respect the fact that some parents may have chosen your unit because they wanted to be sure somebody else's religion was not "foisted" on their kids.

I think it'd be a shame to drop "patrol" just because venturers are in the room. Part of my personal expectation of leadership training is that it expose me to different management models. Most crews don't get beyond "patrol" size anyway. Mine does, but I've found that they split out into different functional groups, (e.g. climbing, backpacking, council area events). No matter what title you give the youth in charge (Activity Chair, Patrol Leader of Hiking, Czar of Ropes), learning how to manage these groups is their immediate proving ground. I can also see how our SPL could benefit from a better understanding of the leadership model of a venturing crew. The simple knowlege that some BSA units organize into officers and activity chairs may help him raise the expectation of his PL's. In fact, my youngest son, who is looking for a position of responsibility was asking me a ton of questions about the Sea Scout positions listed in the Boy Scout handbook. I might be wrong about this, but I think he'd be as good a PL if he went to NYLT with a bunch of sea scouts as he would if only boy scouts were in the camp.

JiKC, OGE, peri,Sr540 - You have provided some really great examples. I'm not entirely sold that packaging them in an acronym like EDGE get's our boys up to speed any faster. To all of them, I would have added, "have the boys read the relevant section of the handbook ..." Or because tents vary so much, "look for instructions in the tent bag, find a language you can understand, read it." Why? Because because our learners need to have resources for when the teacher isn't there! Shoot, our teachers need to have resources to peek at on a good day!

Try not to let this stuff eat at you, on the bright side ... It doesn't sound like any boys went home crying to mamma, "Mr. Exibar called me a thief!" This keeps it from becoming a bigger production than it really was. You have an opportunity to talk to the older boys about "what went well, what went wrong, what I would do differently?" Maybe after the SPL and JASMs run bed-check on the next campout, you can have them come back to the campfie and discuss a few things in that framework. One of these days there will be a very funny campfire skit about this. You'll be the brunt of some really good inside jokes! P.S. - You probably don't want them to know you've been talking to the likes of us about it.

I get what you're saying. As long as we give the boys 10 camping nights of opportunities, why can't we be called a QU? The point is that the gold category is doing nearly monthly outings. If your troop has the adult leadership available to make many of those Friday+Saturday night, that's awesome! I agree that many boys are not impressed with the QU patch. But I think it does register something with parents who are selecting a troop. When Weblos visit you could pull the parents aside and simply tell them your troop is a "Quality Unit" and even hand them a copy of your tally sheet. Or, you could do just as well handing them the troop calendar. The jury's still out with my Crew and the Venturing standards. I think the officers would like to meet them, which means the standards are better than the previous ones. I don't think they would know what to do with the designation if they earned it.