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You should chalk this up to a trade-off between Risk Zone and Youth Protection. On a 2.5 hour trip, a passenger makes it easier to drive the whole distance awake and alert. Unless the car had tinted windows, I honestly wouldn't consider it a YP violation at all.

Really good advice ... "Ask if anyone in your pack has any experience with rockets, you'll probably find someone who knows how to do it." That person can help you judge where to set up a launch area, how to manage cleanup, etc... A tough thing for cubs is the whole model building process. Set aside plenty of time for assembly. P.S. - My first launch was with my pack when I was a cub. Remember it to this day.

To steer ever so slowly back on topic ... That's Kudu's point, once yeh get past all da inflammatory nonsense he puts out Inflammatory nonsense is to Kudu's message what EDGE is to teaching models. Just a little extra noise that may get some people's attention, but most of would do just as well without it. We need youth who are passionate about the outdoors. (More "trail mix" than "cupcake"?) We also need youth who try again and again to impart scout skills to their peers pulling from a large toolkit. (More "teachers" than "EDGEers.")

Youth do not attend troop committee meetings -- although I don't think anyone would oppose the idea. But, our SPLs are pretty active boys in general. I banned crew committee meetings unless the Crew President could be present. Call us dysfunctional, but it's nice to have one less meeting a month.

K, Nice use of reference there. I do it with the boys all the time. Fact is, when the patrol loses the knot relay because one boy drew the one knot he didn't know/remember, the skill will be imparted before the next race. The boy who costed his patrol that heat will demand the application of an effective teaching method, and if EDGE is not it, he will let the PL know. "But, I still don't get it!!!" I guess that is the most important step in teaching: "Inspire willingness to learn."

Yes. It does apply outside of scouting. In fact there's no point in putting it to memory if you're only going to work it one hour a week and maybe a couple of days a month. That makes it hard, but when my son said the second term of college was going to be hard, I replied "We ain't paying for easy." Same thing here. That said, they know the Scout Law and when they have stepped beyond it. No need to remind them of it. So, here's a few lines that I thought nothing of at the time, but they turned out to have some worth to the kid ... "Don't cuss." "Done wrong? Make it right?" "No point in arguing with me. Ask God what he thinks of you skipping church tomorrow." "I did not write the rules." "How is your teenage anxt any concern of mine?" "Settling for second best, are we?" Obviously underlying all of this is the knowledge that you're there for the kid. Don't be so proud as to not apologise when you do something wrong. Be bold and talk to his friends about life and such. If invited to a young lady's birthday party, make sure he brings flowers (save the gag cards for the guys). In other words, most youth will respond to that oath and law stuff after a few years of seeng their folks display it -- even if it's never said out loud.

Our shelving is dimensioned to hold patrol boxes. So, effectivly two rows of two shelves. There's about 6" of space above each box. Milk cartons hold small stuff. Propane bottles fit under the shelves in front. Tarps/canopies on the front shelves. Somehow a small microwave fits in there, just in case ... That allows for a narrow isle from the side door to the back hatch for some personal gear. We store gear in a garage, and transfer to the trailer as needed. Safety gear similar to what was mentioned above, but we include wheel chocks. We've blown supposedly good engines hauling that thing. So, balance and share the load. Don't overload a trailer just because you're short a driver. Troop is willing to share with the crew. But my preference on Venturing outings is to take an extra vehicle or two or pack lighter. (Side note: at Woodbadge, I could spot the crew advisor's cars, they were smaller and had less gear!)

One of our scouts built a boy-size hamster wheel! It looked more impressive than it worked. My suggestion is you start with a scale model using dowel rods (or even 1/4" sticks) and string. Improvize a lot and go through a number of prototypes. Test it using 4 oz sinkers for passengers! Keep in mind that there's a reason why those things are made out of steel!

Gunny And yet somehow I feel I will have failed him if he chooses not to complete his Scouting career without that esteemed award... even though I know parents who would love to know how we got him to be who he is - as he is. The opposite is true. Parental success is having provided opportunities. My daughter is not going to earn a single venturing award. She is definitely Silver material, but from outside of scouting, opportunities are being handed to her because she's bright and hard working. They are to good to pass up. Awards aside, she is area/regional/maybe even national cabinet material, but she feels she won't have time for office. Have I failed her? No way! Venturing has let her know there are some great people out there who see her as a leader. Will she look back and regret not focusing on a couple of awards? Maybe. But she'll know that neither I nor our council VOA advisor ever shortchanged her.

I would like to point out that Kudu's way of instructing is 1. Deconstruct our presupposed existing models. 2. Give us a reference. 3. Challenge us to apply it. 4. Trust that we will refer to it as needed. The reference he gave us follows roughly the same model. (Its references are the Patrol Leader's HB and Boys Life.) It's very clear that the method is not a one-shot deal. It needs to be implemented repeatedly (about 12 times a year). New trainers (i.e. patrol leaders) will be continuously cycled into the process. It will require constant monitoring. But, it sure sounds like fun!

Ours is titled by an individual. (Not me, thank goodness.) I think the SM is the current holder.

Seems a monumental waste of time better spent helping boys. I use EDGE with my boys, I teach my boys to use EDGE, the have grown because of it. In doing so I believe I'm also teaching them how to be law abiding citizens instead of throwing out those laws/rules/requirements they don't agree with. The ability to repeal needless laws is a foundation of our constitution. I think my boys will be better citizens if they learn what EDGE lacks, rise to authority in the national cabinet, and strike down these requirements. I'll change my mind if the youngn's taught by your EDGEers are more competent than the youngn's taught by my Handbookers. If somebody comes up with a better rule than "Reach, Throw, Row, and Go (with support)" for teaching water rescure, I'm open to it. When folks figured out that compressions-only had a higher success rate, I asked my re-certification instructor how soon the rule would change. I don't consider any of those discussions a waste of time because that's what distinguishes rescuers from shamans! If EDGE is indeed better than reference-based instruction, if in fact requiring the use of books in every facet of education had nothing to do with the West rising out of the Dark Ages ... well, then let's EDGE away! But if you have your doubts, relay them to your boys. They might actually learn how to teach in the process.

Either way, as CC, you'll have your hands full. I see some practical things need to be done. Hopefully keeping busy with these will take your mind of politics: Troop which was on the verge of collapsing until we showed up (i.e. it had -zero- boys and the equipment seems to have been taken by a Venturing crew). Do you know the Venturing crew advisor or president (youth leader)? They may be clueless about your equipment needs and happy to return or at least share some gear. Moreover, some of them might be more than willing to support your program by providing training. (Teaching skills to other youth groups is part of the requirements for a Venturer to earn awards.) If you are really really lucky, one of them might be SM or ASM material and looking for this kind of opportunity. Have you met leaders from neighboring troops? District roundtables are useful for this sort of thing. There may be programs that the boys would like to know about, and if you keep track of them, that might help the SM. basically went AWOL for football season and most of the preceding summer Are there good spots to camp near your home football field? (Maybe a farm or some community park.) Perhaps a parent in your troop could provide a bonfire after a game. Understand that some troops, except for camp, simply don't meet in the summer. It's just too hard to keep things rolling. Ask your SM if this strategy will work best for him for this year. See if there's a weekend where you all can gather for a picnic or easy going camp-out in the summer. works at the scout shop That means he's a council employee. Get to know his boss because he is probably also your scout exectutive, and sometimes this disorgnization (just like your unwillingness to dive in) is work related. Of all of these avenues, only one of them may pan out, but that's one more resource than you had before. Then point out to all of the parents that you've done this stuff (or whatever), and ask what are they doing? The goal is to make your SM's foibles a small issue because everyone else is pitching in just enough to make sure the boys have the program they signed up for. Then, you sit down with the SM and COR and say "I need to start finding my replacement. Don't know how long it will take. What about you?"

Maybe snake oil is too harsh. Placebo may be more appropriate. You can use the term to make you feel like you're doing something standard and novel. That gives you the confidence to know what your doing is "right", you press forward, apply some creative juices, add a few steps, lather rinse repeat, and success!!! It's the stone in the stone soup. Maybe someone observed that the villagers were starving for no good reason, and said "If I plop an acronym in the pot the villagers (scouts & scouters) will bring out their veggies and stock (raw talent) and this soup'll get cooked faster." I'd just like to know who that guy was and which village he tested it on!

put simply, the higher the profile, the more likely you will have a parasail than a tent. You'll need put out extra lines to anchor the thing on windy days. I carry aluminum poles from a retired dining fly to reinforce our rectangular dome tents against the wind when we camp on the beach. A pole goes diagonally across the front of the fly, leaning into the wind. A variety of stakes is also essential. Sand vs sod vs rock require different style and types of steel. The harsh reality is there's no one-size-fits-all. If all of that complexity is overwhelming, you may want to just bring a small rack with hooks for a tarp to put over your gear. Park it on the upwind side of your tent as a windbreak.

Don't let the swagger of Eagles fool you. Most of us know that there was a bit of good timing, grace, and positive reinforcement that went into getting us our birds. The best scout I ever knew aged out at 2nd class. When I was 12, he invited me to come join his troop.

99.9% of the time, a person will use EDGE in one form or fashion without even knowing it. So why require one to follow it? What are the ill effects on someone who is taught by the one scout in 1,000 who doesn't intuitively use it? In other words, why waste the ink? The text-message answer to those questions is a resounding IDK. Counter example: More than 50% of the time, I'd wager, the intuitive instinct when seeing a distressed swimmer is to "Go (unsupported)". It's probably what humans have done since prehistory -- to deadly effect (maybe 20% of the time). Imparting "Reach, Throw, Row, and Go (with support)" -- even though it doesn't make a spiffy acronym -- has prevented the untimely death of many ad hoc guards (probably myself included). Is there a teaching method that, applied universally, adds that kind of value to every boy's outdoor experience? If so, require it. If not, do what we often tell our SPL's: think before you make a rule you have to live by.

Well, by your description they used the EDG method, but I think with the Webelos being somewhat out of their environment, they did it right. Before even joining your troop, these potential cross-overs know where there's a troop of creative older boys to help them. Here's hoping that translate into a bunch of new scouts ready for summer camp!

jam, My oldest son was camping with his buddies after his wolf year at cub camp. So the transition wasn't too hard. His friend's dad and I just pitch are tent a little futher away from the boys. This actually made it easier for us to get to meet the older boys, some of whom would be his mentors in other school activities. My second son crossed over and I was already ASM. There was one cold evening when I was 300' away, and in the wee hours he was standing outside my tent complaining about not being able to sleep. I let him come in and hunker down. Three years later, he's an independent boy scout and venturer just like his brother was. My point is: same troop, same rules, different kids. You adjust. If you like camping, keep going out with the troop. If you like fundraising, pushing paperwork, or organizing adults ... please, we need you! Those of us how like to be in the woods all the time are terrible at that stuff!

Macmom, Congratulations, and you have every right to be proud. Restating what the posters said, all badges earned at any rank count for the total of 21. Although I'm against pushing Life scouts to knock off their rank requirements in 6 months (unless, they're 17 1/2!), if a boy likes earning MB's let him have at it! One thing I encourage boys to do is start on Personal Management and Personal Fitness before camp. Why? Because camp can cause unique challenges for fitness of body and wallet! When they meet with their counselor at the end of summer they can evaluate how things went. (E.g., did spending go a little overboard at the trading post? Could you find a chin-up bar in the woods?) Other than that, have the boy identify the badges where camp is an ideal place for learning because you don't have access to the facilities at home. Hopefully one or two of those will be required. If not, have him start getting counselors' names and numbers and making some calls.

There's no standard formal process. The troop may have one, but I doubt it. Just let the SM know if your DC is showing up at the den and pack meetings or calling you in a timely fashion if he can't make it. If some real positive synergism is happening between the DC and your boys, let the SM know that too. It might help determine the lad's next position of responsibility. Oh, and as a former den chief, it really meant a lot when the DL came up many years later and thanked me for helping her boys.

Hey Doc, cut us a break! Some of us our too busy making a living to be famous (yet)! For a contemporary panoply of Eagles, I suggest Legacy of Honor, by Alvin Townley. Sheer numbers dictate that there are more public figures who are Eagles now than ever before. Townley's research makes that very clear. I would suggest that the closing show montage tells more about the folks who made it than about numbers of Eagles in the public eye.

Cart before the horse. YPT and other Saftey principles don't gain their importance because they are in G2SS. Rather, G2SS is important because these common-sense concepts are in one place. When my coeds talk (jokingly, thank goodness) about sleeping arrangements, I tell them it's a YPT violation, not "the G2SS tells me so." If a youth life guard is operating in my aquatics area, I refer to safe-swim and safety afloat, not G2SS. Heck, at that moment I really don't care if the kid gets YPT or gun safety at all. I do care that he/she knows how to prevent the death or injury of the swimmers/boaters in his area. If kids are throwing 5 pound rocks at each other (nothing in G2SS about lofting projectiles), I'll rudely interrupt them. If they are pointing little red lights at each other in a dark room, I'm not getting in a huff about it. (In terms of safety, that is. I might pull out the "scouting is outing" speech.)

Okay, here's an excersise for former scouts or older scouts. It might be a fun reflection and fire the brain cells in a different direction. (But, it may mean leaving your terminal for a bit.) 1. Go find your merit badge sash (or blue cards if you were really that much of a pack rat). 2. Look over each badge and try to recall your MBC and how he/she instructed you. 3. Post some of your memories (methods you liked/didn't like, what worked/failed). 4. I'm trying to think of a fourth step, but it wouldn't spell anything anyway. That's it. Have fun.

emv - How is this [asking for a book to start an MB] a problem? A Scout is thrifty. It's not a big problem, but sometimes my scouts come off with the impression that you won't learn if you don't have the book before you even phone the counselor. I'm not sure if that's because of my "start with the Handbook" approach. But truth is MBC's have varying opinions of the BSA materials. They have varying teaching models. My 1st aid MBC was an "Explain", "Enable" kinda guy. I sat on his porch being told what to do, doing it, being told what not to do the next time, doing it again. All the while he and my dad engaged in small talk. His reference, which he loaned me, was an outdated Red Cross manual. If I made the effort, I'd probably have a different story regading teaching style and method for each badge on my sash. Experiencing that diversity is part of the game, I guess. (ooh, there's another topic).