qwazse

That said, I think it is a very healthy excersize to have the scout collect reference letters.

acco4 had two questions the first one was rhetorical, but that never stopped us before ... How did JASM get into the discussion of Eagle Scout = SPL? Sorry for the tangent, but I was just saying that if our troop doesn't require rank for JASM, so we don't limit SPL to the lower ranks. ... should a Scout be able to become an Eagle without serving, or at least attempting, to hold the office of SPL? Yes. And we should expect more from a librarian Life scout than a first-class scout. That's the rules, I didn't write them. (Although, I would prefer that 1st class scout spend a stint as a PL.) To follow up on MT's most recent post -- just for the sake of contrast: our troop doesn't consider JASM to be a privelage (beyond the implied "we really trust you"). We just assign it if a guy really wants to take charge of some aspect of troop life. The purpose for us is to put a title on the kid that answers a question like "why is this high school junior talking to my little Johnny about a 5 mile hike in the middle of winter?"

Z. I've heard of Falun Gong. More power to you. 1. I'll defer to other's about the religious award stuff. I know there's an alternative for faiths that don't have an awards program. I can't remember what it is. The bottom line is that you understand your faith at a level that would be expected of a thoughtful and caring adult adherant of your religion. 2. Whatever your religious leaders say is service to your faith would count. Bottom line: the time you spend should help foster the religous life of the folks around you. 3. Teaching definitely counts as leadership.

drmbear ... making a nice cup of coffee and something good to eat ... I'm with you on so many levels on that one! Besides, you'd be amazed at the crossovers who'll stop by and ask to help you roll grape-leaves, grind hummus, or chop parsley for tabbouleh salad. Or if cooking isn't your thing, just sit down with rope and spars and start making a camp gadget, or be in the axe yard knocking out tent pegs.

It makes tour plans a little easier to sign. Besides that, there are no benefits. It depends on the leadership style of the CC. He/she may be tempted to act as the SM. If the partner has enjoyed direct contact with boys before (e.g. Den Leader) he/she should consider being ASM. If she has a track record coordinating adult committees, then maybe CC will be a good fit. The advantage of the CC being from a different family is that you are forced to work at communication. There's no taking it for granted. This usually helps formally get the word out to the rest of the troop.

Quadruple ditto of what niel_b said. Most importantly, are the boys having fun? Do they feel welcome? Do the adult leaders feel like they are accomplishing things with the den? If there's no fun, if boys don't feel loved, if adults just see their kids "jumping through hoops", it's not a den. You can bring the adults together and say "we want our den back!"

BP, I have to take issue with your Being a Christian is NOT:'s 1) Being able to define the miracle of the Resurrection by the very limited understanding human knowledge can provide. Defined: A guy dies, violently and certainly. Then he's hiking with his homies, busting their crib, eating their fish, making campfires, and then hopping the clouds (without any COPE rigging). How much more sophistication do you need? 2) Defining your faith by what particular Denomination you are since all of them were created by humans and not God. Jesus showed us how to live our lives he did not create a religion, humans did. But that's what Christians do! (A quote from the Koran: "The Jews are in 77 sects, the Christians are 777.") I wish I could live my life bringing the best drinks to the wedding, clearing hospitals, and occasionally toppling some tables and beating people with ropes for selling stuff at church. I can't. So I'll just spin-off a new religion, just like my master did! 3) Dictating to others what and how to believe, thinking your way is the only true way. Orthodoxy: straight teaching. Heterodoxy: crooked teaching. Christian history is mainly about dictating such things! Okay, I'm being cynical here. Just a little. But the problem is we've equated being "Christian" with being "nice." And, even though many are, that's just not what defines the term. The worse effect: folks who are non-Christian feel like they are considered second class citizens. I guess that's the downside of taking over for the Roman Empire and salvaging what was left of it by throwing the West into the Dark Ages. That imperious attitude is hard to shake.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

Finally pulled the 2007 G2SS. This is a new section. (And my wife wonders why I keep this "old stuff".) The old stuff is still there (items were simply renumbered). I'm wondering if the new section comes from Personal Safety Awareness for Venturing meeting guide. It wasn't referenced in the 2007 G2SS. I'm not inclined to chase this down to its source. Since I don't have to sort out where anyone's sleeping (or whatever) tonight, I'm going to see if I can start staring at my eyelids before midnight.

This happens at every level of scouting. Older youth have 10+ calendars and no skill or ability to synchronize them. Credit your SPL for giving the ASPL the heads up more than a day in advance and move on. How much leadership does one need to get a bunch of boys to show cross-overs some skills? I guess you're going to find out! It's a little easier with the crew, but I ask myself "If I don't do __, what's the worst that can happen?" If the answer is someone getting hurt, I intervene. If the answer is my youth look shoddy and disorganized or the youth wind up improvising a game instead of nailing those requirements, I let it slide. I then explain to the youth leader next meeting: "We had a great time, you really missed out, but now these kids are short on X skill. Can you think of a way to help them catch up?"

So G2SS is referencing "National Venturing Committee" when it doesn't exist? That's rich. Anyway, the policy is no different than what we've been trained in VLST. I meant to compare with the wording in the old G2SS, but forgot to last night. FWIW - from my talks with camp rangers regarding venturers, the last place I need to worry about fornication is where they are *sleeping*. More coffee, please.

Even for those of us who are spitting distance from Summit, the calculus is a challenge. The last Jambo broke the bank for a couple of my boys who wanted to come sailing with our crew -- making it hard to fill our boats. Now my crew is invited to join the council contingent, but will we pass on a superactivity in 2012 so we can afford 2013? It's going to be a tough sell.

This depends on what your troop's vision is. If you believe candidates for Eagle are entitled to an opportunity to hold the "point position" in the troop, then you want to increase the odds of that happening by asking guys who earned their Eagle to sit out the elections. If you believe that Eagles should have opportunities to "man point" during their scouting career. Then you should invite them to throw their hat in the ring. If you believe that a position has more to do with what a boy can contribute, you'll minimize rank restrictions in making assignments. If you believe it has more to do with certain things a boy should be trying at certian ranks, you'll be make policies in that direction. E.g. if an ex-SPL is really good at organizing camp or planning events, I'd make him a JASM without any consideration of what's on his left pocket. It sounds like eagles are expected to do that in MT's troop, so they are de-facto JASM's once they meet age requirements. If I see a 17 y.o. Eagle who really gets a kick out of showing cross-overs the ropes, I'd call him a troop guide. MT's troop would say he's advanced beyond that. And if a guy says he wants to be JASM and winds up doing basic troop guide stuff I wont make him switch patches! (I honestly don't think MT's troop would either.) Since I don't like when people make extra rules for me, I discourage SM's from making extra rules for the boys. Sometimes, however, a nice orderly progression makes things run smoother. So sit and think about what suits your leadership best. Get the boys' o.k. Work your plan. If it annoys you, adjust.

pack - nice thoughts, but not necessarily Christian. As I mentioned in other threads, that "label" was applied by folks outside the faith for what at the time was considered a Jewish sect that had this obstinate persuasion that a certainly dead Christ came back to a certain vibrant physical life. Nothing metaphysical about it. If you believed in the resurrection of the body with Jesus as the first example (the down payment, if you will), someone was going to call you a Christian. If your belief involved some more nuanced abstraction, they'd call you something else. Not sure why anyone would want to bother trying to fiddle with the definition after 20 centuries.

POR (or lack thereof) may govern rank, but rank should not govern POR (or lack thereof). Likewise, we don't offer JASM to every 16+ y.o. Eagle. You have to be willing to stay part of the life of the troop. We may offer it to non-eagles.

Hey ALB, FWIW I'll be praying for you tonight. (Rumor has it that helps from time to time.) Not just because it's your kid or your pack. You said it was your church, so whatever decision they make will affect the ministry of your house of worship for years down the road. Pastor has to walk a fine line between helping people maintain their dignity and reading the writing on the wall.

I can believe that a guy would show up drunk with his kids. It happens. Definitely a have the DE step in on a organizational level and the pastor step in on a personal level. (Any pastor worth his salt has had to deal with drunks coming in the church door. Your house is an extention of the church.) And don't be surprised about folks willing to step in and help if their existing unit is sailing smoothly. Your willingness to be mentored and a desire to make something work provides an opportunity for a gifted leader to try something new.

Turns out that a regard for moral standards helps address the youth protection issue. There've been a number of times -- with my crew more than my troop -- when I've pointed out that "I'm not going to rattle off a bunch of rules. I know your religion. I expect you to live up to it on activities." So, yeah, I guess I play the morality card a little more explicitly with Venturers.

First, bless your families who participate. This must be a lot of fun for your boys. For my crew, I use Google spreadsheets, which allows me to create an online form for sign-ups. The basic data goes directly into the spreadsheet. I use this to collect general stuff (last name, how many can drive, what your paying for, etc...). PM me and I'll send you an example form. Second (since you don't have internet/power/computer whatever on site), whatever you use, stop online collection the week before. Print everything up on 3-hole paper, and have it in a binder for the trip. From there, work from paper. That way, I get a rough idea of numbers for a tour plan, and who owes me money and more detailed info (e.g. driver stuff, etc ...). I DO NOT gather personal info online. Refunds depend on the cost relative to participants. Some activities we get a group discount or there is a fixed fee per group, so cancellations can cause the budget to explode for the rest of the particiapnts. In those cases, no refund, the preson who cancelled is responsible for finding a replacement and they can get money (or not) from thier replacement. In other cases the only cost is food and fuel and we come in under budget, so we can refund cancellations. (Even for stupid reasons like "I thought my girlfriend was allowed to come but when her dad found out I'd be there he wouldn't let her go.")

Muslims believe in the resurrection ("So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)!" The Koran quoting Jesus.) They don't believe it was subsequent to a shameful death on the cross. By their own admission, they are decidedly not Christian.

Assuming that the quarters are fairly close (i.e. shouting distance/thin walled), I think you've met Y.P. requirements with two adults. E.g., a lodge with four rooms: - one room is for the male youths - one room is for the female youths - one room is for the male adult - one room is for the female adult. If you've got two cabins some distance apart, then you need more adults. If you're on a 45' yacht anchored in the tropics, everyone is sleeping topside. (Unless a storm comes, then nobody's sleeping.) Extra adults just take up space. You just make sure the sex's are separated.

No "official" order. Some folks are generally used to things flowing in a certain way. I think the response was designed to be completed before the awards. Hopefully others can speak to that. As with most things, individual design often involves a little bit of compromise. I've observed that the good Masters of Ceremonies will barely stick to the script, so you want to make an effort not to pull them too far from their comfort zone.

dg98 - For our Crew with male/female members, this means 4 advisers on an overnight. 2 female and 2 male. If you interpret housing as literal "house", maybe! At most events we get by with 2 adults. The lady pitches by the girls' tent(s); the gentleman, by the boys' tent(s). Married chaperons can pitch somewhere between. Most cabins have a separate room for the adult, and that is usually enough to take care of the YP issue. We only worry about 2 male and 2 female adults if we are in a wilderness setting where rescue might require splitting the group. Or if the group size is really large. That said, anything you can do to encourage more adults on any activity increases the odds of finding your replacement! OGE, my venturers are still responsible for whatever paperwork needs to be managed.

BD Really?????? Honestly?????? Are WE that out of touch?????? It is here so you better embrace it or be left behind. Your scouts knows all about it. Sounds like a line from That Hideous Strength. I don't feel any obligation to embrace any technology that gives one the delusion that they are actually communicating when, in fact, they are not. (That said, I just rattled off an E-mail asking my Crew for the fourth time for responses for this weekend's activity.)

I wonder if Cub Scouts makes us lazy at recruiting? Our pack is very well run, graduates about 6 - 12 Webelos every year. This year they all crossed over to a different troop! Some folks on our committee were really wrankled because they thought we were "entitled" to those boys. Meanwhile, us ASM's noticed the boys who are sticking with the program were the ones recruited *by their friends* -- not the ones from our feeder pack. We encouraged folks to stop navel gazing and start knocking on doors. A couple of dads are putting together a recruiting program targeting school and church youth groups. Stay tuned.

A.M., looks like you guessed wrong. All of your issues are well within the purview of the registrar, and if he/she says "this is how the paperwork will be pushed," we should all fall in line. It helps us all do a better job. Generally it's when someone "reads into" the Eagle application some restriction that is not there, that a registrar should defer to another authority.