qwazse

SSSc, Aside from it being fore-country and not back-, yes. Let's just call it the LNT practicum. It's the part that nobody will give a certificate for, but it's the most valuable part of the "course."

Yep, I feel sorry for my daughter (who still gets sucked into venturing responsibilities even though she's an ex officer) ... every now and then for half a second, but ... Hunkering down on the deck of a sailboat in the Carribean while your dad names stars (at your request) until you fall asleep ... tell me, who does that the summer before entering college?

How much "cooler" do you want to go? In my neck of the woods ... http://www.heritagereservation.org/ offers a mix of trek activities for older boys (whitewater, mountain biking, caving, rock climbing). We leave it up to the boys if they want to sign up for such things, and a few of them take the initiative to try a challenge. Of course, most of the treks are in our "back yard", so the older boys wind up scheduling them (or tagging along with some venturers) over the course of the year anyway. Distance is the rate limiting issue for you (plus there's no comparison to the vistas in CO). But, I'm just putting it out there in case someone of like mind but a little closer to the Mason-Dixon line follows this thread. P.S. - Not to sound "condescending", but do make sure you have the "buy-in" of the boys before you explore too many options. It can be perplexing when you pick a site that seems to adress all of their complaints of the previous summer camp, and they decide they don't like that option by voting with their feet! I would give the boys a chance to sift through the info on all of the locations mentioned here. P.P.S. - Also, a lot of camps have already booked full for certain weeks, so you may also want to have the boys call ahead to see if your preferred dates for camp are still available.

FCFY is a great thing to preach until it's your son who decides to take 4 years to earn FC! I think a troop should provide opportunities to excersize each FC skill at least once every year. That includes but need not be limited to camporees and competitions. I think being honest with a scout who has a disability about his disadvantages in a particular skill is the best way to go. They and their patrol can sometimes surprise you. That's not the same as "too bad, so sad", but it is a little different than an "it's okay if you can't ..." By the same token, getting a waiver for a requirement needs agreement by the youth as well as his parent. And, my experience is that a boy will grudgingly agree to a waiver only after his doctor identifies a life-threatening physical impedement. Brent, I agree that HA should be in addition to -- not instead of -- summer camp. We definitely have that attitude of "show me the skills" and "best scout = the one who's always scouting", but I'm not sure my SM and I have the mental capacity to keep track of all those achievments!

... and people think I'm cavalier about my bear and shark encounters last month ... at least I could trust them to treat us with a little respect. No boy should have to witness such a tragedy.

Our camp offers both options, our boys won't have anything to do with the dining hall. I think there's something to learning to prepare a meal from commisary ingredients. Most moms appreciate when their boys come home able to make pancakes and french toast. Moving on to figuring out how to do the same thing when refridgeration is an issue is a natural next step.

I really really like that $100 bottom line. Really tempted to float that same thing by our venturing crew because my HA base budget is tapped out for at least a couple of years. Obviously our program would be a little different (e.g., my youth really know how to cook), but simply taking a week out just to be grow as a team is a huge opportunity that my youth sometimes take for granted.

There are a lot of folks out there who say we have no business bringing 11 y.o.'s into wilderness recreation areas. That's not without reason. My crew was returning about an hour behind our troop's youngest patrol, and when we got to their site, near a stream crossing, I found their trash bag hanging on a tree beside the trail. Fortunately, I recovered it before any other people passed by that section of trail. I zipped it, brought it home, and had it ready for an LNT discussion at the next meeting. I pointed out that there's no pride in saying 75% of our patrols were litter free. Point is: that "Enabling" step that we do is not without risk to the environment. But we consider it a small risk in the process of raising adults who care about this world God gave us. Other folks don't see it that way, but they haven't given me viable alternatives that will make sure these boys will protect our forests when they reach voting/driving/snowmobiling age.

Thanks for touching base. When you get a picture of their flag, put it on line for us. I'll use it to a challenge to our "Tye Dye Platypi" patrol! (Our boys are strong on catch-phrases, weak on artwork.)

More relevant to our times: the popularity of rooster feathers in braided hair these days is driving up the price of fly fishing gear.

Our crew runs a relatively lean operation. (No sales/special accounts, etc ...) But, I use Google spreadsheets with our treasurers (we have a youth and an adult) to account for trip expenses and who-paid-what-to-whom. It works wounderfully wherever there's internet, but guess what? We don't have access to the www at our regular meeting place! That's why I haven't applied it to the checkbook itself. Regardless, hu, you'll find the accountability issue won't disappear when you change software. I think it's time to find an assistant treasurer to help get deposits to the bank next day.

Hope your boys feel proud, Blanc! BD anc KC, the fact that *any* service hours are required for rank advancement is an insult to the notion of volunteering with no expectation of reward. I'm glad it's only 13. I wish it were zero -- stricken from the requirements along with the "invite a friend" requirement.

IMHO if you are using that second year to camp with/visit a troop (ideally different ones) every month, your doing right by the boys. If your AOL boy(s) find a troop that's awesome and welcoming, cross-over. I do suggest you do it about 5 months before the troop's summer camp. That way the older boys will have a good idea of how much trail-to-first-class they'll need to teach.

I wholeheartedly agree with jblake. The age of accountability for religion is generally 13-ish, and kids should take some responsibility for educating those younger (or maybe less fortunate, depending on where they worship) than they are. In scouting "leadership starts now" should be the attitude and no position of responsibility should be considered "a lesser position." I've seen some QM's work harder and lead more than some SPL's. No, a 12-year-old tenderfoot should not worry about PL being dumped on his shoulders, but he should see his buddy one year older being held up as a potential leader. Just a thought, you may want to look closely at the football schedule and see if there's a campsite close to a game location (at least for one night in the fall). This might give the football and band guys a chance to at least camp the night after the game. Even if the athletes have to leave early the next day to review film, they might appreciate having breakfast with the troop. P.S. - Anyone who only has 12-year-old tenderfoot scouts, go ahead and have them elect one set of shoulders to dump PL on. It'll work out.

The effective duration of our NSP's (when we have them) is 5 months (end of Feb to beginning of June). After that, they get assigned to patrols. We find that the 11 y.o.'s have about had enough of each other (except on stormy nights, when they all pile into the same tent). We've gotten into the routine of asking the PL's "what skills do your boys need to advance?" We do this every three months or so. Then we ask, "What program do you want that will help you teach those skills?" If we have an older SC scout who needs a particular skill, we may make that a priority. (Heck, if he's 14, we may ask him to teach it the following week.) Point is, we find no point in singling out new scouts after they've showed up for more than a dozen meetings. I guess you could call our NSP "adult nudged" as opposed to "adult lead".

I'm a little confused, are you down to 11 or down to 9? Either way, I agree with the above. For your troop, the era of big government is over! Be one patrol until you all think things are getting too crowded again. I would limit PL eligibility to FC+. Make sure the band kids are offered a position they can perform off hours. (E.g. Bugler, Historian, etc ... They don't have to take it, just let them know that you still feel they can be an essential part of the troop.) Let them know that even in those positions, if they make an effort to do their jobs well, you will still send them to NYLT. Also consider that you now have time to offer a position of responsibility to each boy and track how well they perform it. As a recruitment reminder, you may want to hang a blank flag somewhere with the label "our next patrol". Point out to your two SC scouts that if they make rank they could be eligible to lead it. Finally, remind your parents that they have an opportunity to uniquely serve the best 11 boys around. Their boss might not be grateful for any extra hours they put in over the next few years, but these boys will cherish them for-almost-ever.

I have only one argument in favor of just awarding the patch: It will remind the boy that it goes on a uniform. The only point of having a uniform is to be in a unit. No unit, no uniform, no one to see the patch. So, the best way to get the most recognition for your AOL: join a troop. That said, I love cub leaders' enthusiasm for regaling their boys and parents with all kinds of stuff. It's really cute, and exactly why I'm not cut out for cubs! Keep up the good work!

Ditto on the "interesting." That's why, ahead of time, you should have your SPL call the ranger's station (sometimes there's one for a variety of parks) and ask about any facilities more suitable for a scout troop. E.g. something that might require hiking/kayaking in a ways. Some forests have them, others don't. Either way a call to the Ranger's office is good practice.

Boomer, although a full blown sports oriented scout camp may be out of reach, I think you may be on to something. A camp with limited resources may need to offer a theme every year. It may tap into "sports focused" kids. For example, one year they may offer morning excersizes in speed conditioning. The next year: weight training. The next: diet and aerobics. The next: core stablization. (Think "log Nautilus" in the pioneering area, or calorie counters using knots on a belt in the cooking area, and you might get the picture I havee in my head.) It's impossible to do all of those well in one week when the focus should be on scout skills. But it may be possible to do one of those. If a sports oriented kid knows that every year he'll get to focus on a different unique fitness skill (even if it's not specifically the sport he plays), he might be inclined to come back to camp to pick up those pointers. The challenge: trained supervision. What will draw such kids is not that you have those themes, but that someone with qualifications in those areas is guiding the program. Also, you need to ramp up the skills of your medical staff so they are prepared for potential injuries. Then you need a little glitz. For example, if a popular local athlete was willing to drop by on the last day of camp and have a meal at the patrol site whose members participated in the program and showed the most improvement, the program would have a big draw. Can't wait to hear what you come up with in the next couple of years.

How 'bout this ... Don't offer to be SM, but offer to help coordinate a couple of non-camping troops in an "outdoor experience." Something along the lines of "I know of this really great spot where boys like yourselves would love to camp.

At training this weekend, I brought up a recent discussion in these forums. One leader said "so, it was you who posted that?" He went on describe some of our senior members with terms of endearment -- sort of the way our boys recall their favorite (or otherwise) camp staff. Just a reminder that real folks will be "listening" to our frank and courteous conversation!

I'm happy with "silly". My ideas have been called worse! Keep in mind that I did not write the Venturing Leader's manual. I'm just trying to do what it says. True, with these older youth, we talk about what they "should do" more than what they "must do". But there are consequences for omitting certain "should do's". One very simple consequence is when I am talking to an advisor and/or president of a new crew, I'll tell them, "... And you have these other advisors/crews near you who are awesome. You should give them a call." Guess which crews are going to get the reference? The one's who's symbol's show up on the "be a scout map", or the ones that have made themselves "real" to the rest of us. And I am amazed at how a handful of diverse youth representatives gathering in one place light up a room (or a coffee shop, or a pool, or a shooting range) with tales of what their respective crews got into. To say that a crew can skate by without being part of that is, IMHO, pure delusion.

Well, when my crew first started, they steered clear of the VOA. (Both council and area offered opportunities.) Those particular youth were a pretty tight clique. It took the next generation of officers to "open channels of communication with the aliens."

I don't think it's a problem with MB's. It is a hassle sorting out positions of responsibility. For example, one unit may grant a kid a POR and not remove him if he's not doing the job. The other unit might not want to accept it, but they're kinda stuck.

Short Change the ages, change the uniform colors, and you've got the basic description of a patrol and a troop: Local youngsters banding together around a common interest. Yet you say troops don't also have to network? Not really. Sure it's nice for SPL's to get to know other SPL's in their district, but there's nothing in the manual that says that's their responsibility. It's a pleasant surprise when a troop hosts some activity for other troops, but we're not expecting it to be the routine. Now, patrols DO have to operate within a troop -- ideally with a little bit of independence from one another. But I wouldn't exactly call that networking because they're meeting every week or so, and camping within 101 yards of one another every month. On the other hand, part of the stated responsibility of crew leadership is making those connections with other crews (and troops and packs, if the activity fits) who they probably don't see on a weekly basis. So, if our SPL thinks he's got an activity that the troop could share with our (or any one else's) crew, but he doesn't convey an invitation to our officers in a timely fashion ... No problem, not his job, the troop goes solo. But, if our crew has an activity that could be shared with the troop, it's on the officers (not the adults) to think seriously about opening it up and make the calls and extend an invite. If they don't, it's something we bring up at evaluation time. Like BP said, there might be plenty of reasons why this might not work as per the manual. But, that's the target I'm shooting for with my posse. Emb -- aggreed: "agents of council" is not the right term, just the first one off my fingers. Anyway "bottom up" is the bottom line.