qwazse

Acco, I think a lot of boys feel the same way. I know one star scout who didn't count the hours he did music for church, even though every week it involved an hour learning the tunes, and an hour rehearsal. (Turned out he didn't have to, some adult neglected transfer hours he helped on Eagle projects into that software thingy.) I'm not entirely sure he thought it through, but most of us figure some things are just duty to God, and in our hearts don't want it to be counted as anything by anyone else. Growing up, I sure would have scoffed at any help I gave to a church (mine or some other) as service hours. On the other hand, if a boy volunteered to do a project for a clergyman (his or someone else's) and wanted it to count for service hours, I'd let him. Some of this is just an exercise in giving the boy a chance to define himself. I encourage them to write down their hours in their handbook. It may inspire his kids someday when he pulls that book out of the attic.

Yep, the stuff of peoples lives can just drag you down. On several occasions, a divorced parent has asked me, "What would you do in my situation?" I've had to say, "You two need to decide how you're gonna co-parent. The sooner you do, the better for all parties involved." But, I would never say that without one of the parents opening the conversation. Sadly for the kid, like Eng pointed out, there's nothing you can do. You can tell them that they have a fine son, and you'd love to see him around, but you'll understand if that's just not possible. Or you could not tell them anything because they probably know all that. The only thing that can help sort these things out is time and no small amount of prayer.

Beav, I don't think it's a valid assumption that None of those organizations are giving him a free-will recognition, the way a lifesaving award might be. They each have requirements of service for the status conferred. None stipulate "for the sole purposes of recognition by this organization" is the community service to be performed. I look at it this way: scout performs six hours community service the weekend after earning star rank. Should the SM recognize it for rank advancement? Yes. Should the NHS recognize it? Yes. Should the FFA recognize it? Yes. Should his church recognize it? Yes. Should we shower any kid with honor from any and every direction for his hard work, yes. Should the last be first; and the first, last? (Oops. Tangent. ) Now, I do believe in full disclosure. The honorable thing for the scout to do is to inform each organization he applies to that the hours served were also counted in applications to other organizations. E.g., for NHS: "these hours were recognized in my advancement in scouts." for FFA: "these hours were recognized in my advancement in scouts and induction into NHS." etc ... And, if one of these groups asks for something distinct, he can cheerfully offer it. Chances are, he has served more than the requisite number of hours. At least that's been the experience for most kids I know. I want a kid to think that every little bit of service can mean something to a lot of people. It seems to me that's a better motivation for him to serve than tallying X hours for this and X hours for that.

resq, I was thinking of cutting up a sleeping pad, then I saw that my camp towel folded several times was the length of the kid's arm! Thanks for the SAM splint suggestion. Thanks for the ideas guys! I'm glad we weren't too far off the mark in terms of equipment. I think what hurt us was the preparedness factor. All of the boys present learned "inside the box" first aid. (The trained boys who were on Philmont contingents graduated last year, leaving us a little inexperienced.) This made it hard for them to help figure out what would work best. The SM and I are thinking of a few first-aid competitions to change that.

Yep. Talk. Don't write. Good luck. Call the dad as well. Just let him know you miss seeing him around, and as a First-Class scout he has a lot to offer your boys (or any group of youth wherever he goes). If the mom is sticking around, I would suggest that she help on the committee and spend time with parents of cross-overs encouraging them to fundraise, come to camp, etc ... Needless to say, you don't want to be anybody's therapist! If you have a divorced mom on your committee, she might be able to listen to gory details. But your focus is on a find scout who should be finding his own as a leader in the troop.

Gunny, In the community garden our scout set up as part of his Eagle project the answer would be "no." The food is grown to provide fresh vegetables for the food bank. Since we they can't predict who will be out of a job next month, they can't guarantee a surplus for the folks who worked the garden but whose families are doing OK financially. (Although, I think in the past couple years there was enough to go 'round.) That said, I get your point. POR's overlapping is a different issue. When that happens, I want the boy to do both well or give one up. (Just read the riot act to my VP Program/VP Admin whose troop elected him SPL! Looks like the kid's gonna try to step up, but he knows we'll evaluate in a month.) I don't mind a kid being a PL/Bugler for four months. As far as I'm concerned he's one person with one position of responsibility that involves two merged tasks. Then again, if a music teacher gives him some kind of recognition for the fact that he not only performs duties for his troop, I'm not gonna go to the kid and say "Sorry, it's been nice to hear your rendition of taps at all our activities. But now that I find out you've got an award from the school for it, I gotta take away your bugler patch!" Let me re-emphasize: one service hour under the banner of scouting should be recognized in as many other areas of a boy's life as possible.

An SM might ... talk about an honorable fellow still does his duty to God and puts in his hour in church on Sunday. No matter how much work he did for client X, an honorable fellow wouldn't charge that to client Y. And if the kid says to SM Beav, "Well sir, I heard on Sunday that God reaps where he does not sow and expects me to do the same with my talents!" Anybody know if there's a medal for that! Seriously, for our school's National Honor Society, the point of the juniors reporting their service hours is so that the seniors can write up an introduction that recognizes the candidate's well rounded nature. I think the school graduation requirement is similar. They want the kids to have *something* that recognizes their initiative outside the classroom. They do not want it to be exclusively for fulfilling school requirements. No, it doesn't get back the value 'Fish's hard earned tax $$'s, but that's a different topic.

This is one of those that doesn't come up until after you need it. The standard first aid kit for backpacking is pretty adequate, except ... Materials for splints! I wasted a good half-hour foraging for a decent piece of dry wood to form a splint for a kid with a sprained wrist. (We had just hiked in to an isolated site. It was getting dark fast. No bleeding or bruising to justify a panic. And in my experience, even when X-rayed, you never know if there's a break until you repeat the exam in a day or two.) And after all the fussing we realized that a camp towel folded and rolled around the little gomper's arm and anchored with bungees did the trick and kept his hand warm at the same time. I was thinking that kit boxes could be long and skinny, and the lid could hold some cardboard that be used for a splint if needed. What do you all recommend?

I'm not talking about last-minute boards either. (Although I get the impression that most of those would be last minute communications. Or maybe last minute situations at work or home that put grabbing the uni at the bottom of the list.) The bottom line: since uniforming for an EBOR it is not required in any documentation, wearing other dress more representative of your role outside of scouting is allowed. A district advancement chair may set the tone by having his volunteers dress in uniform if they are representing, he may answer affirmative or negative if a committee chair calls and asks about wearing uniform, or he may ask his people to look professional as in business formal or Sunday-go-to-meeting. Same with a scout who shows up in a suit and tie. Sometimes it's just fine to say, "'round here, we'd like it this way." The district has that latitude. And honestly, I think it should stay that way. Scouts should have varied experiences in their EBORs, and they should feel free to compare notes and consider their likes/dislikes. One day it may come in handy when they get the call, "We have this Eagle candidate ... would you be free to sit on his board?"

It's easy to have opinions. The money is in proving them right. Is there anything in the "rule book" regarding uniform dress for adults at EBORs? Gee it's nice when adults "tan it up", but if that's not the culture in your district, I'm not seeing the problem. Either way, it's how you treat our boys that's important.

The real problem here is when you ask questions from a point of bias, you miss out on important things like: "What's this boy and his troop like?" "Are other boys also moving along as quickly?" "What kind of program can we provide for him and his buddies?" "Is this a kid who can be challenged to lead at a district level?"

I'm with you Blanc ... At round-table one SM told us he ran it by his boys. He said they came up with unreasonably high expectations and had to tone things down or even the boys who came up with them wouldn't pass! Talk to the boys. Make it achievable. Make it fun.

BP - awesome works mentality there! Don't ever dispense 3 hours of grace for one hour of penance! I believe in overlapping service requirements as much as the letter allows. Our kids do great things, we need to recognize them for it. If we spare them the misery of finding time to fulfill non-overlapping service hours, we FREE them to serve according to their gifts. And they do! So, LET THEM. Within scouting if an MB requirement states that the project cannot be counted for other service hours, then it is non-overlapping. If it doesn't state otherwise then it is overlapping. I agree that a scout should plan ahead and get approval rather than make things add up after the fact. But, invariably, we find a kid who's coming up short on paper has been working as hard as the next guy. He simply never thought to log those hours (lousy bureaucrat, great servant).(This message has been edited by qwazse)

Some practical stuff for the terrain is never a bad idea: bungee cords/tie downs of some kind, ponchos or survival blankets, flint/steel and tinder kit, directions to your favorite campsite location (something that might not be on the regular map). little compasses. fishing line/spare hooks your favorite lure (ask that they post a picture of the next fish they catch with it) Some personalized stuff is great. If you are in a club, see if they have a tokens of some kind (pin's, coins, laminated cards). I had a kid pick one up a coin this weekend, it wasn't a geocoin, but a nice momento none-the-less. If you want to go over the top, you could buy some geotags and attach them to mini wooden paddles, or toy canoes. Then you can see how many migrate over the globe! Most important: make sure you have a durable log book and a half dozen pens/pencils. I love to stamp logbooks! As soon as you submit it, it will get reviewed, at least on paper! Chances are there is a reviewer for your area of interest. If no caches have been put there before, he might be excited to help you with advice.

Moose, How do I put this? O.K. Here goes: Your vision is somewhat parochial. I grew up in a football family. One cousin went pro, a couple sibs played Division I college. If you got tickets to a game you went in suit and tie or (military dress if you were on active duty). You did not put on team colors or wear a team jersey. Maybe you carried a pennant to wave. This was out of respect for the players and the game (which, in our parts was just shy of a religion). You would not dare to presume that you were "in the game" in the same way that those boys on the gridiron were. You certainly did not play dress-up and wear their numbers and put eye-liner on and look like some clown from who-knows-where. You showed up like it was church and the players were giving a sermon. With that culture in mind, the men at my EBOR wore suits; ladies, business dress. In their mind, it would insult the scout to even presume that they were "in the game" in the same way that he or his scoutmaster was. Out of respect to the boy, they tried to look as sharp as they would for the preacher on Sunday morning, or the team on game day. It was my first "professional" interview, and has made every one since an enjoyable experience. I'm not saying it's the way it has to be for the boys in your district. Just don't go thinking anyone's doing their boys a disservice if it isn't that way in their district.

I have a friend who went with his son to Tinnerman a few years ago. They had a great experience. A while back someone posted a topic about how rising fuel costs (and the economy in general) may affect your program. Well ...

Let me start with a statistical sample of 8 (i.e. my youngest son's den). They all crossed over. Three years later none had made first class. Two remain in scouting. (One died, two relocated, three quit.) So I guess those boys have been deprived of "Well-delivered programming", thanks to the leadership of my SM and his lackeys (your's truly included). But, those two boys LOVE their troop. My son made FC at the 3.5 year mark and was elected PL. His buddy has to overcome a fear of H2O. In the meantime they've both racked up some MB's that interest them. Do you really think the other boys, having earned FC two and a half years ago, would have been with us today? For the one boy, I wish it were true. But, a bogus badge of rank would have done nothing to keep that truck's brakes from failing.

I do like the concept of a merit badge "pow-wow" implying an introduction to the topic and a counselor with the possibility of completing the badge later like some of you described vs. "university" implying a knock-it-out-in-a-weekend mentality with the probability of you completing a badge or two. Fact is, unless you have a hand in the planning, you'll never know which it's gonna be. So, I would suggest you get together with a couple of SM's in your district, decide which four or five specialties you might present (maybe on a job site) and offer, say, "An introduction to ____". Now, if you are in one of those districts that happens to have two dozen counselors all free on the same weekend, you could have a massive "pow-wow", but I think it would be better for the boys if different badge learning opportunities (with the subsequent possibility - not probability - of badge earning) were highlighted by a district every month.

O.T. - Really really bad idea. Just sayin'. Two phrases: "The kids/parents need you to focus on this." "The kids/parents need you to back away from that." Suggestion: if you act like you're out to lunch -- like your just this nut that only cares about cute little boys having a barrel of fun and has no clue about the work that "needs" to get done -- sometimes they stop knocking at your door! Alternative: build a collection of videos of the "last minutes" of recent dictators and point out that you would rather an adult's scouting career end on a more upbeat note.

OTN's neighbor pack is a "Friends of Pack ###" charter. One of the "friends" happened to have a relationship with that church and provided space using that building. Two organizations, two packs, they just happen - through separate channels - to provide the same physical space. And I suspect that neither unit wants the DE looking into anything. If you ask someone for a rule, they might just make one for you!

Here's how I handle this ... (the registration part ... for the peacemaking part you're on your own) ... let's call it the "what applications?" strategy: Only register the paid youth. Let the unpaid youth know that they are not on the roster until they put money behind their paperwork. That means they can come to pack meetings but not activities. At each den meeting if they bring a dollar until they are paid up, then you'll register them. Tell your COR and your DE that's your plan unless some generous donor comes forward to underwrite the registrations. If your DE says those kids are uninsured send the parents a note "I'm sorry, I was just informed by Mr. ____ that you can't be in the program until you pay him his money!" In your situation, you can no longer be fronting youth. Aside from the hit on your wallet, it will only add to your resentment.

If I'm gettin' sued anyway, I'm goin down helpin'.

We encourage our youth to leverage their Eagle projects or Bronze award requirements for school requirements. It makes for senior projects of a higher caliber. Our school holds them up as exemplary projects.

M2C - I've seen it pan out (with jr. high youth groups on co-ed camping trips) the way you fear it would. I've also seen the opposite (girls take the lead, boys take the crap jobs). I've seen my crew start out with cliques along gender lines and by the end of the hike they realize they might get less lost if they work the map and compass together. In general, I've seen it go back and forth so much that I don't worry about it any more. My SM made us scrapbook after every trip. A couple of boys had to put together a poster with pictures and captions so we could display them at the next court of honor. Our webmaster effectively is doing the same thing. And ...knitting is just a form of knot-work! They boys' lashings might be a bit tighter if the girls challenged them to ramp-it-up! Again, I'm perfectly happy keeping things segregated as long as the GS moms in my community develop a strong outdoor program for their girls. If that keeps failing to happen, it makes it very difficult for the freshmen women in my crew to transition to our style of doing things. Both programs loose.

Sounds like "just one of those things" that makes your CO special! The best you could do is emphasize with your COR that you would rather not be bumping into the other pack on the same night, and ask how much more trouble it would be for the church secretary to call each pack's COR to review the season's schedule. If that doesn't help, work directly with the other pack to minimize overlap. And, when there is overlap, see if there's a way you can share resources (e.g., a common snack time after the meeting, etc ...). I've generally found it works best when units leverage the positives in the situations handed to them. Turn that pebble into a nugget! P.S. - Historically, Christians have done some pretty nasty things when it comes to turf, so don't let that stop you. The only thing that's really holding you back is that you're a scout.