qwazse

If it's going to be cold, you will have to have a prep session about winter gear and first aid for hypothermia and frostbite. The advantage: you are demonstrating a shakedown just like you would do it with scouts. You may want to collect med forms then and review any limitations. If you feel you must lecture, you must have a cabin that's comfortable for everyone, but not sweltering hot. Orienteering (seems that it's on your mind) should be taught on a hike. No more than 7 students at a time. All discussions regarding the map and compass must be done with everyone circling up and able to provide input (and a windbreak and warmth?). At each discussion, one person takes point, tells what he/she is doing (orienting map, identifying landmarks, setting compass), then asks the group if they concurr, making eye contact with each member. Unlike Stosh's knife and axe demo (which I really like and may attempt), orienteering is 75% in the head; therefore, communication skill is a must. Everybody needs to be in the loop, engaged in the task. I am an Eagle ASM and very good at getting lost, getting found again is always a team effort.

not so much on keeping his mouth shut and minding his own business. ... I imagine that part will get better in the next few years as he gains some maturity more even with those a little older. You could have been talking about my youngest son (now 14). I admire your optimism, but if mine son is any indication, your boy's found his groove. The best you could hope for is that he speaks courteously, learns the skill of apologizing after each time he crosses "a line," and -- along the lines of the dog training precept -- learns to actively listen. (Oh, and baking brownies for classmates covers a multitude of sins.) TT - I wholeheartedly agree. No need for soap operas when you have a troop full of jr. high kids.

That means odds are only 3:1 that a kid's in a two-parent household compared to 4:1 twenty years ago. That's a big change in the faces that come through the door at your troop meeting. I don't think that really explains "overparenting" syndrome. Sure there might be a divorced parent that smothers their kid in an attempt to outshine the other parent, but most who I've seen doing that realize after a year or so that they'd better get their act together and co-parent effectively. In fact, I think it can be "worse" in two-parent households where one makes enough income that the other *can* spend more time watching 14 year holds like they were still 3! I think most of it comes from overexposure to media that amplifies threats and attenuates opportunities. I remember son #1 went to his date's home after a homecoming dance with their friends for a campfire. (They made that choice because other friends were gravitating toward "alcohol friendly" homes, and they wanted to avoid that whole scene.) The dad was a little worried about them burning the woods down. The mom told them, "They're all scouts, they ought to know how to keep a fire under control!" I don't know where the media fit into that picture. (We don't hear of burn bans much in these parts.) But I was glad for that positive impression of scouts deserving a little independence.

For our crew, our council account balance is kept to below $5. We rarely use the scout shop, and the balance is there to handle over/under payment of rechartering. We get a balance printed at the bottom of every receipt that draws on it. Not sure what the troop or pack does, but last year I had to put a couple of $ into the crew account to cover the troop's under-payment of rechartering. It saved mailing the thing back to the troop and wasting time sorting out an otherwise trivial mess. Someone later made me a decent cup of coffee and we called it even. I'll let you decide if that's a problem or not, but it's fairly obvious we'd rather trust our units' dirt-bag treasurers.

I have bailed out individuals from time-to-time. But, one thing I've learned is that if a leader's wallet gets tapped too deeply, that leader is less available to provide program. Everybody looses! And that loss is worse than if every member of the group had to pitch in to make it work for those less fortunate. Our troop has a discretionary fund for this sort of thing, and it doesn't take a whole committee to decide to use it. Just the SM CC and Treasurer. That way folks don't have to worry about a big public scenario. The issue is, if we have several scouts needing help (a likely scenario this time of year) there might be a smaller percentage going into scout accounts for the next fund-raiser. That should be a non-issue because the point of the individual scout account is to give each boy a say into how they are going to add to the life the troop. Now, on the rare chance that all of your boys have positive balances in their scout accounts, they might want to consider deducting $10 from each and add to the boys who need it.

Moose: Wow Qwazse everyone always said I was hard because anything other then an A or B was failure... You are worse then me.. When our kids told us they wanted to be an engineer, rocket scientist, and teacher/doctor/researcher, the bar was raised before they ever got letter grades! We were very fortunate with our kids. They are blessed with a bright hardworking mom -- and lazy me who was smart enough to marry her. And unlike some of our friends, we dodged the hardships that make focusing on academics a chore. MIB: I pretty much always did it but in the pursuit of those grade I gave up the fun and social interactions at school and now pretty much hate everything about school. Funny, I gave up fun and social interactions at school for scouting. Don't hate anything about that! But don't worry, a healthy disdain for school means you might actually get a job with that education of yours!

Very little of our crew schedule is more than 3 months in advance. If we get a reservation for an HA base, that's locked 18 months ahead. Area and council VOA activities are scheduled a year in advance, but attendance depends on school commitments -- which vary from year to year. Everything else needs a narrower window because the schedules of the college-bound kids is pretty volatile.

We don't keep them from scouts as a punishment, but when it comes to school ... We demand a lot from our kids. I tell them that less than straight A's is failure -- partly because they have it in 'em, partly because their aspirations demand flawless execution, partly because must step up for friends who would love to soar academically but severe mental disabilities get in the way, partly because the taxpayer paid for a teacher to present something to you and good citizenship demands you grasp it all. So, if a B or lower is starting to appear, I tell them ... 1. Our religion is forgiving to failures, so I gotta still love you. 2. Tell us what needs to change so that you have success. Sometimes it is scouts or sports, but more often than not it is the industrial entertainment complex.

Had an Eagle SMC last night the SM and 4 ASMs were in attendance. This boy had a some really good ideas. (Advantage of waiting until you're 17 for that Eagle: you got some solid opinions and the maturity to put them out there when a bunch of adults are listening.) So, I asked him point blank about the # of ASMs in our troop. He said sometimes it causes a little confusion, but more often it's nice to have so many different direct-contact adults around. Point is, it's not the number of ASMs that's your problem. It's the quality of ASM's. I think it's perfectly fine to say you don't want to add another 21+ ASM until he/she has served as a committee member a couple of years, completed IOLS and whatever other training you think is relevant for what your troop does, AND they've shown a track record of hanging back from the boys on outings or activities. (At the SM's discretion, you may fast-track the one who keeps the coffee hot and dishes in the adult's site.)

Got it. So you really may have some older kids who lack vision. That's why the advisor should give them one last challenge. If the youth say they'll step up, go ask the SE for an exemption. If not, suspend the crew and focus on providing one serious outdoor GS troop for those little sisters. (The term we use 'round here is VIT: venturers in training.) We've seen the same thing in troops where the 14+ year olds seem to disappear. Sometimes they don't realize how they are depriving younger boys of the blessings they had when they crossed over, and they'll come round. Sometimes they just don't care -- they've changed their priorities and aren't looking back. In the first case a gentle wake-up call gets them on track. In the second case you resign yourself to starting from scratch with a troop full of youngn's.

the crew does not have enough paying members to recharter this coming year. We just need youth to recruit youth. How many do you need? You have four adults all of whom could be multiples of other units and paying their registration through them. If you need two of them to be CC and COR, you can do that. You have your daughter (who I assume would pay) is there one other youth. Boys who are multiple in another unit may be paying there, so that's no problem just ask your SE to waive that requirement. (I've seen troops move 5 boys primarily to their crew, but I hate the shell game. It gets back to your "what's the point?" question at the beginning.) Then you need someone to fork over the $20 rechartering fee. Done. But you're right, it's the principle of the thing. You don't want names on paper, you want a movement of kids. The crew advisor needs to hold an emergency meeting with the topic "Crew ___: Glorious or Bogus?". The kids need to decide if they want it to persist another year. If so they must choose one activity (e.g. host a ski day, have a blood drive, join jb's flash mob) that they want to do in the next three months, promote it, and make it happen. If they don't want to. Fold. You might be stuck waiting for another the next class of youth to come along and re-instate the crew.

Anyone ever sew their pocket shut accidentally?

Although I'd like to think I was able to convince my wife to take more camping vacations because she trusted my experience as a scout -- I'm not buying it. Nice graphs as usual, though.

It's kinda sad. Most boys would volunteer -- party or not. And the Salvation Army folks would be a little bothered that a boy was missing out because he didn't ring a bell. You're probably in the right that it should not be called a troop activity. But, it's your son's problem not yours. If he thinks it's unfair he can bring it up with his PL or SPL. If nothing changes he can bring it up at his next board of review and tell the adults just so. If he works hard he can become PL and SPL and make activities on his own terms. He can also vote with his feet. Although I'd hold off on giving him that option until you're sure it's really eating at him.

Sounds like your crew is at the tough spot of trying to define themselves. But, they have good people who'll help them when they are ready. I'd tell them they should say they are a general interest crew. When they get sick of calling themselves that, they can make the effort to be something different. Bottom line: a crew is a group of kids who shape themselves. If every other crew in your area is some troop's venture patrol, then they probably should break the mold and be a little independent. Have your crew's officers completed ILSC (used to be called VLSC)? It's a good training tool that sets a standard for them follow.

Stosh, I agree that time is your friend in many cases (be it a well cared-for patient or a well built PWD car) so part of the "competition" must be recognition of the things that required time to achieve. That applies to sports as well. When I coached soccer to cub-aged kids at the Y, I reviewed the goal count (and goals given up!) after each game, but more importantly I expected a better quality of game than the previous week. Even if they won, kids could be pretty honest about if their play was better than the week before -- and that improvement in quality often had a lot to do with the time put in practice (or running laps around the house dribbling a ball, driving their parents nuts kicking against a wall, etc ...). Kids want to hear you say, "That was the best kick/car/splint I've ever seen from you. Way to step it up!" Oh, and adults like hearing you say that to their kids!

Good idea if the boys are willing to buy-in. I can think of lots of practical uses. The boys grab their totem and present it before pulling out for camp. They can be used for make-shift rosters. The life guard in me likes the notion of pre-built buddy tags for when you go swimming or boating. (When canoeing, I literally put tags in buddy pairs on a stringer in my kayak. I make the boys fashion them out of tongue depressors and permanent marker. It would be nice to have those tags pre-made.)

Competition gives you the opportunity to build character. And it's not just about shaking hands after the game. "Do your best." Well, if someone just like you scored higher (had a faster car) than you, that may be an indication that what you thought was your best actually wasn't. Those tears -- if they're sincere -- may set you on a journey to do better. "Help the pack grow." Well, if you came in first (or came in dead last, but everyone thought your car was the coolest looking), maybe it's time to show other scouts how to do their best. Maybe your dad or mom's shop is better, or they taught you some skills, or you just put down the video game and devoted more hours to your task. Time to share those. That's the basic role of competition (including rank advancement): to give boys a crude scale to let them know where they stand. And that's why as the youth get older, they get more diverse requirements, to let them know their strengths and weaknesses and to discover who has what gift. It sure beats waiting for a teacher to grade your paper!

I had a conversation yesterday morning with a young lady who wanted to join a crew. Her sister was in our crew! She was at the table as well, and I gave her the cold stare! Of course the challenge remains the time constraints put on our culture. For example this young lady just passed up the opportunity to go hunting with her dad because she went shopping at 5 AM with her sister and my daughter. These girls could have been shopping as a crew activity. Or hunting after having trained as part of the crew program. But neither activity is something that one automatically thinks "Hey, why don't I get my crew in on this?" Point is you can rethink ages 'till your blue in the face. Rethinking culture is the bigger challenge. E707 - When I was in college, I got "back into" camping, etc ... through my college fellowship. The ministry made an effort to provide an outdoor program at an age appropriate level. As with most Christian ministries, that fellowship had it's own network. Scouting would have to offer something above and beyond what is already out there.

Yep, like BDP said, I'm just speculating. From what I've read on the forums, instructors have stuck to their old formats, and have not had to run the course with a new demographic (older, co-ed youth). I don't see a high demand for NYLT among the Venturers I know (who, for what it's worth, have a wide array of cooking skills). I don't suspect any new anecdotes to be available until a summer or two. But, I do suspect BP's hypothetical concern about boys being more stuck in their shell are overblown.

Ej, I think you're set for the SMC in spirit. Different troops have different levels of paperwork anxiety. But generally we work with whatever the boys bring to the table and identify any steps that must be done. If there's something simple like signatures or letters of recommendations to nail down, we won't ask for a do-over on the SMC. If it turns out you didn't complete your Eagle project, for example, we'd probably have you schedule a conference after after you got that done! Our troop invites several ASMs on the conference so that we make sure we've covered everything. Sometimes one of us will make a phone call to someone do double-check a fact that we're not sure about. Anyway, congratulations. You and your folks should be proud of your hard work.

We have to direct our parents to their boys, saying "the first requirement is that your boy needs to know his requirements." Second, we tell the parents that their boys are doing just fine and we love having them around. (We don't have many slackers. Or, rather, their slacking matches their age.) Thirdly, we point them to Joe eagle scout who had a girlfriend (sometimes two, the low-maintenance one had a Rocket 350 engine) and advanced; therefore, we are in no rush to push a boy before "the fumes" set it. If Joe could juggle everything and make it, so could little junior. We do this respectfully and patiently over repeated conversations. Regardless if the next step is a skill, a POR, or Scout Spirit. The goal is to get parents to stop feeling like they are pushing a wheelbarrow uphill all the time and start appreciating their son maturing and climbing the trail on his own.

Some older venturing youth were in my WB class. Did just fine. No idea how they are doing with their tickets. No clue about NYLT. I know younger boys in our crew are no less goofy around the older girls. If that's your fear, I haven't experienced any problems with it one way or the other. (Of course boys in the crew have signed on to the co-ed thing, so that may make a difference.) My suggestion, if you do have to deal with it, is ask the older girls what the ground-rules should be.

I really like the broader concept of "Outdoor Ethics." It gives folks the perspective that LNT is part of a bigger picture of collective responsibility. It also should cover the concept that not everyone understands "the rules", so part of our responsibility is education.

BD - Piggybacking on what Stosh said, you have some specific experiences that can add to the life of your crew. First, your recent experience on the AT and that whole discussion about outdoor ethics could be a meeting topic. Second, let your daughter know that you'll be going on the hike in the near future and would like the crew to come along. (The challenge there is finding a female chaperon who's willing to do the miles.) But, they'll need a meeting or two to collect gear and prep. Hopefully if you're available for one thing, another half-dozen parents will be available for different activities. That "spreads the love", and pretty soon the youth catch on that they can call you for hikes, Ms. so-and-do for whitewater, etc ...