qwazse

... the whole frustration is we adopted SOAR to get away from that. You can run but you cannot hide! The number of times I said "some moron had to have programmed that already"....

Fred, I felt your pain. I grew up in the days of "digital standard run-off". I get blank stares from my IT staff when I try to describe that I want data sans borders and colors. That's why I learned to use the Google Calendar API to generate a text only version of our calendar in Javascript. No bells or whistles, just an outline (event, location, details if any) and the calendar App embedded below it: http://www.pitt.edu/~qqq/Crew321/Calendar.html I usually don't print it out, I cut-and paste, but you get the idea. Find the hacker in your troop, give him a webmaster patch, and have him copy and twist my code for your nefarious purposes.

ALB, three words "Get Den Chief(s)!!" This should be the topic of conversation with the SM. If he can identify a boy for each of your dens, that's gravy. But you should at least start by getting one for the W1's. By his very demeanor, a DC will reflect the culture in his troop. Something that no DL can do. (I couldn't even do it for my youngest son's den when I was an ASM in big brother's troop. The best I could do was talk about troop life. Matt, our DC, could demonstrate it on their level.) W1s should all learn the oath, law ... They should say it together at the start of every meeting. And you should introduce to and quiz them on the meaning of the words and the insignia. That's 10 minutes of every meeting. As far as activities go, show them this chart: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/ageguides.pdf and focus on the items where the bar starts at Webelos. For example, pioneering (lashing sticks together to build simple things like towel holders, cooking tripods, and siege engines) is seriously cool and appropriate for this age. (O.k., one mile pumpkin chuckin trebuchets may need to wait some years.) So you start on the knots -- not to be a mini-Boy Scout, but to be a pioneer (Native American or Settler)! You don't start learning the bow-saw to be halfway to First Class before you cross-over. You learn it to be a lumber-jack and make saw-dust. You get the idea. They are to be imitating Boy Scouts, but not as an end in itself. Rather, to get the discipline and skills to see themselves fitting into the wide world. Keep up that spirit then in two years, you can reflect with the guys. Show them that chart again, and say "Here are the other things you can do. How 'bout sticking with a troop?" Three years after that, you talk to them and their sisters and their girlfriends and say "Anyone wanna shoot some Colt 45s?..."

Tell "Sarge" to put the charges in writing and copy the COR. You will then review it with him to see if any actions are warranted in light of the CO's vision. If she things any of your "offenses" are actionable, remind her that she is *obliged* to report them to the SE and the authorities immediately. There is no "60 day" warning period. Most commishes want to keep direct-contact leaders in their positions. So, you can expect the "warm fuzzies" from them when you talk to them.

Your CC needs to be informed that every time she takes on a responsibility of a CM, she is abdicating her role of a CC. And, that's not good for the pack. You need to make clear that you will call her on every negative comment with a "Madame, you are out of order." Say it's nothing personal, but her boys are going to cross over to boy scouts, and if they have it in their heads that they can buck the SPL publicly at every juncture, they might find themselves scrubbing more latrines then they ever knew existed. Pack meeting is your hour. Committee meeting is hers. W2 den meeting is hers. Regarding prayers, you could always reply "But, ma'am, we ought not to keep God waiting!" Of course let your IH know that there's this tension and uncertainty going on. Let him also know that the boys seem to be having a lot of fun.

IMHO, a direct payment from the family makes for easier accounting for tax purposes. If the scouts want to make a contribution through the troop, they should do so before budgeting the $ to a scout account. Scout accounts are essentially discretionary spending for individuals to make purchases that enhance the life of the unit.

I agree with Beav, except that you may not have been able to avoid the impression of a "chink in the armor." Lynch mobs often interpret deliberation as inaction and there may not be anything you can do about it. If you would have said "we're doing x" at the outset, they would say you were thoughtless and irresponsible! Also, in church terms, there are "prophets" who rail on an institution if it's more prone to dispense grace than judgement. If you're lucky, all of the stone throwers actually worship elsewhere. If not, well, let's just say your church board is going to need some additional patience over the next several decades. Regardless, let your IH note the stance you and the SM are taking. Explain that this is based on everything you learned from what is taught on the pulpit. Move on from there.

I have yet to review this with our crew president. (Getting a few adults to push paperwork has consumed an obscene amount of energy.) But, since we went over the standards last November, I think the kids will have learned that seemingly easy goals are no slam-dunk. Did anyone review their JTE with their SPLs? I would love to hear from any SPLs who may have gone over this with their troop.

Sleep out in the cold, cook in the cold and prepare for the cold? Sounds like a routine to us. Do we really need a program? If you find a couple of volunteers who would be willing to help make it work over the long term, present them to council and you might have a program.

MT: A circus by any other name is a recruiting night. Go for it!!! I think one of the goals would be to drum up 1/2 dozen tiger families for the pack. What would be gravy would be if one dad was a former scout and therefore cub leader material. As CM, MIB can figure out if the pack can have the hall on a different night than the BS. He can grab the COR and say, "I need a little history so I can do my job better." (Maybe there is a little religious persecution or something else going on!) He can pull the line: "I'm in college, I got mid-terms right before your B&G, so I need you all to step up a little more to make things work for these kids." Each parent may need to consider an open house night/activity in their respective neighborhoods. The pack might just need to get out and get recognized. If folks don't step it up and provide these boys a program for the next 6 months, then you both will have to let it slide.

The cross-over itself was just a formality in my mind. (Maybe because there was no cheap imitation of Native Americana involved.) Don't know if it's my son's favorite memory, but mine was his first backpacking trip we took with his buddy and dad that same year. It was just the four of us and really represented the transition from the cub world to a place where dads began to step back. Advancement was not instantaneous with those two, but 7 years (and lots of miles hiking, biking, and canoeing) later they both Eagled.

You need the boxes and a reliable place to store them. But make it someplace accessible so that folks can go back to it as the years go by. I always enjoyed going down into my parent's basement (it stayed very dry) and just rifling through the boxes of snapshots. Shoeboxes worked very well for them and still do for us. There is nothing like sitting on the floor and pulling up picture after picture. How I would improve on our system: On the outside of each box, write the date range and list the subjects. You don't have to be overly detailed and get everyone who is in every picture, but if a box has a couple of good pictures of one person of place, you want to note that. Then as a birthday or graduation rolls around or you make plans to revisit someplace, you can go along the boxes and pull a couple of relevant snapshots. Leave it to the youngns to scan or scrapbook. You just tag the photos on the back and send them along with a nice note.

My SM was the organist at our church. So we were always in home in time to get breakfast and suit up for Sunday school! The only time that was different was at camporees. One time we did Sunday service with an LDS troop. I kinda like being able to have a brief devotional in the field Sunday mornings. Our CO has limited parking on Sundays, and they kind of like it when we pull in just after service lets out. (Of course, I think they'd be happy if we pulled in just before service and worshipped with them -- smoke-filled clothes and all.) I know one Jewish fella who has to make arrangements for the Roman Catholic boys in his troop to attend mass wherever they travel at the request of the CO (a Roman Catholic church).

I just cleaned up a late night cracker barrel for our VOA. Alterior motive: making sure the hall was cleared of "stray" youth.

MT - do your District rep thing, and only that. Recruiting night, good idea. give the parents a List of things you expect them to provide. Brace yourself for the possibility that they wont. On the night, set up a table where the boys do most of the busy work, passing out stuff, showing pictures of activities etc ... Let MIB do his thang. Keep yourself as far away from the management of the Pack possible. If he wants advise from total strangers who act like they know what they're talking about, he knows where to come! Ticket counsel: make sure the goals are not dependent on other folks. I'm in a bind because one of my goals is dependent on three adults getting trained, I'm gonna ask to revise it to "invite every adult in my unit to ttraining". In other words make sure she has five things that she can do, even if other adults don't help.

Depends on the group. I first did it with our crew and each card had a Method of venturing (plus a couple of terms that referred to stories known only to our crew). With a youth group I used chapters of the Bible. The other adult helped me pick them, and we basically called it off the top of our heads. The task could easily be delegated to an officer or SPL.

We use different rules for stops. My favorite is to give each hiker a "rest card" which when opened reveals one word. If someone wants a rest they can call for a 30 seconds break. When anyone wants to extend the break he/she must open their card and expound on its contents. When the speaker stops talking, we move.

My grandparents having left "occupied" lands for someplace where they could start a business and not worry about a blood feud or being taxed according to their religious/tribal status, my sympathies fall somewhere between BD's and SP's. I think reckoning with the frontier is an important step in citizenship. First you realize that people passed through this land before you, then you learn some of their names, then you learn to admire the skills they acquired to get by, then you begin to understand that not everything was equitable and some took huge losses. But, I don't think you learn that last step until you've taken the first three.

TT: It is tough to chow down on your adult breakfast when a bunch of boys is going hungry though. It's not so hard if the night before those boys had to watch you nom shrimp scampi and fettucini alfredo on a bed of fresh lettuce while they had under-warmed franks and beans. Practice makes perfect. Hop, it sounds like to demote the QM to QM-advisor. It doesn't really mater if he/she is numbered among one of the ASM's. It's perfectly reasonable, in my opinion, for the committee to buy the wood to make a replacement sled. They need to inform the troop that the target for the next fundraising will be raised to cover that cost. The patrol who needs the sled can decide if they want it to be lighter or not. (BTW: in our districts' klondike derbies, a minimum weight is imposed, so read your rules before you fret too much about that.) But, they should understand that their order will arrive with "some assembly required". The QM-advisor's responsibility stops there. You could ask an ASM to be available one afternoon with some tools and willingness to instruct so long as the patrol is willing to put in the "sweat equity." Not the QM-advisor ... just a really nice mom/dad who is willing to guide some boys out of a bind. Another alternative, by the way, is to give the PL a list of SM's from neighboring troops to call and ask if they would have a sledge to spare. (Unlike asking for left-handed smoke shifters, asking for more tangible assistance cannot be considered hazing.) You want to work with the SM, but you also want to help him work with the boys. Here's hoping you all can figure out what will be a fair use of everyone's time.

BD - That's effectively what we do as a crew. The better conditioned youths plan a more challenging set of hikes for those who have conditioned regularly. Some of them may help train the younger youth to the point that adult association is a mere formality. The seasoned contingent accepts adult chaperones (even though we tend to slow them down), I think, as a way of showing their gratitude and a desire to fellowship with us. There is no safety advantage to them.

Eng - I'm sure there are Trekkie who wold take offense at your suggestion. Written on the elevator in my college dorm: "Beam me up, Jim" Written the next day: "Scotty does the beaming you moron." I am really impressedd with the whole PC approach that teaches "Don't do it at all." Sure beats wasting time telling a cub to "Do your best."

I have a hard time getting adults 50 yards away from these boys. The young ASMs seem to find it the hardest. So, here's the result: None of the boys really feel like putting together a patrol activity and running it by the SM. Tthroughout the year a bunch of boys (some scouts, some not) will hang out in a local hollow all day long. A few college couples (and a younger brother - high school age) planned a backpacking trip on a popular trail with my advise. Except for the tour permit, it was an unsupervised co-Ed patrol overnight activity. BSA, the patrol method happens with or without you.

So, if the boys dressed in Star Trek uniforms and gave accommodation from the Galactic Federation, would you be less offended? If a native American actor puts on a Bishop's robe to play some part that he finds noble about our culture, should we be offended? I could go over the pros of imitating the good we see in other cultures ..., but let's leave it at this: It's fun. Lighten up.

Here's how we did it (once): A senior ASM was appointed to be our " selection subcommittee". This guy had experience as an SM and we trusted his judgement a lot. He had been on nearly every camp out that year so he had a good idea of how we all operated. Anyone willing to take the position told him. It wasn't a big long interview, we just described our level of availability and maybe suggested anyone else who he should consider. The discussion took less than a minute. He made his recommendation to the committee, the decided on it, and delayed their opinion to the CO. Done.

It would be nice if Bob issued a resolution for an uptic in tour plans submitted for patrol hikes and overnighters.