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We had one scout (a First Class First Year type, by the way) drop out because he wanted more time to play his video games. I kid you not. That's precisely what the boy said! On the flip side, one younger brother signed back on after being away for a year becaus he wanted to come backpacking with us. He came, enjoyed the hike and is sticking around. needless to say he's not the FCFY type. As far as numbers we're down to 18, which I think is as low as I've seen it.

Our council provides us a lot of support, but I think that's partly because we have a lot of volunteers who support venturing. Some things that we get ... Access to facilities for annual events for all the crews in council. Teleconferencing facilities. (We are still working the kinks out, but this month it made it possible for the VOA to phone in from different locations on a particularly bad night for kids to be on the road.) Space in the council newsletter. A web page for the VOA. Up-to-date membership stats. As far as not having a VOA, it's a shame we make it sound more weighty than it needs to be. The crews in council need to work together to promote themselves. If all you have are four crews in council, and each crew hosts one council-wide activity, that would make for a busy year. If the kids exchange numbers and make plans together, that's your VOA.

Sorry to hear of your loss so close to home. We've had to endure a few of our own, and not a one of them sets well. These boys grow into your life, and they take a piece of you with them when they pass on before you.

All the advice here is good. I would also suggest something like this to the irate parent: "It's clear that that this was more upsetting to your son than he let on. Make sure he knows that I'm always here to listen to his concerns -- just like our committee chair is available to listen to yours. So in addition to the things that I told you I will do differently the next time, do you or your family have a way that we can herd our boys in the right direction? If so, please consider lending a hand on our committee. We need your input!" Of course, you may owe your CC an apology if this parent has a more permanent chip on his shoulder and does follow your advice! But, we can only solve one problem at a time!

I can add to L-bob's laundry list. Shoot, some folks have typed some prejudicial stuff about venturers on these forums, and I have to suck in my breath and remember that most of you haven't had a sit-down with the youth in my crew. There are only a couple ways to deal with this sort of thing. 1. Let your actions speak louder than your words. That is, have fun camping and hiking. And if a cuss-of-a-magician's little old lady happens to need help across the street, lend her a hand. 2. If you are ever welcomed into a dialogue say "I really feel sorry for you, because it sounds like you're missing out on a lot of great stuff." Actually, I've only seen #2 done. Myself, I like debate too much to be that compassionate with words. Lately, I've worked on keeping my mouth shut and focusing on #1. It seems to help.

A one day Eagle project might get by without food; but don't try that in life! Our troop has quite a few candidates coming through the pipeline, most of them have ambitious projects that require more than one day, so scouts develop certain expectations. Sometimes the benefiting group pays. Sometimes the family pays. Sometimes additional funds are raised. Sometimes older scouts expect to show up at a project with a few bucks to pitch in for food. So the OP's problem today involves one project, but he's SM for more than just his kid. So, yeah, it's important to educate "the control freak old fogies" that he's not about to countenance restrictions that impede a boy from putting together a sound and satisfactory plan.

Spot-on BD. I did not mean to say that the neighborhood sidewalk was not part of the outdoor experience. Rather it begins there. (For son #2, it better begin at his bedroom!) We go to church on a college campus, and a preacher (we have many) will routinely point out that faith begins with what you decide to do with the litter on your street after a Friday night.

Some of the best scouters don't respond to E-mails. Some folks inboxes are over-loaded. Life is hard. I can imagine some TG's have a vision of being devoted to their patrol %100; to their fellow staff, not so much! Now you understand how hard it is to be a Patrol Leader sometimes! Try a phone call. Especially if there's a task to assign. "Hey, I was calling because I'm looking for a favor and you were at the top of my list ..."

As a matter of course none of my sons' dens had snack time. (Meeting times were usually 6 or 7 pm.) There were special occasions (e.g., cooking instruction), but most meetings were without munchies! The facility had a water fountain. That seemed enough to get everyone by.

Is it structure that above all that boys need? Is it the common group sharing of experiences with team members that does it? Is it the dedication os adult paid/volunteers and their character influence that mentors the boys? Yes

I live across the street from a gas station. The rubbish that gathers around my fence has everything to do with how well their customers understand (or don't understand) LNT. Fact is, if everyone knew how to better respect property within their reach, much of the outdoor experience would be within their grasp. Anyway, MT, you're on the right track with the WB project. Be creative, and try offer some media that will be a change of pace. (For example, in ours, we had students use vegetable dye pens, vanilla wafers, and Nutella to make edible models of the "Sandwich Principle" while we went over our talking points.)

Some youth may feel more comfortable taking NYLT with their peers. Although unlikely, a 20 y.o., may have just spent the year on prepping for high adventure with the 13 y.o. who just joined his/her crew. IMHO, there's no reason to rush a 20 y.o. into WB21C. There may be tons of reasons to encourage it, but few of them are scouting related. (E.g., the youth is advancing in his/her job or growing a new business and could use a little management training "outside the box". A youth is spinning gears in college and needs a "safe" environment where he or she could do a little goal setting.) Anyway, those older venturers (or younger ASM's) should probably get some guidance from adult leaders to sort out which leadership training experience is best for them. Within scouting, their council may be offering three viable options: NYLT, WB, or Kodiak. Personally, I've been trying to steer my youth towards Kodiak, but they aren't biting. So if the other options are available and interest them, I'd encourage it.

More importantly, will the flyers provide the reassuring proviso in both languages: "No wood will be splintered in the implementation of this course."

Yep. Your scout has some work to do. All three of the options for #3 are within his grasp, but the point of #1 is that he talks to you before moving forward. An 11 year old could be cut a little slack for misunderstanding whose approval he needed. So if he shows up with #3 a, b, or ,c completed in a couple months and the cat doesn't look like it wants to run away, sign the card. But the point of talking to you is that *you* set the bar for the boy, not the other way around. If he decided to host a neighborhood pet show in his back yard (maybe for a fundraiser for charity), and his cat wasn't the only attraction, I would have counted it. But, if you're unimpressed, it's a good indication that the requirement is not completed. You never know about a boy's social relationships, he may very well have a friend who is getting his/her first cat. The kids mom might be tickled that the scout is willing to help make sure little Johnny or Janey becomes a responsible pet owner! Years ago, at Mallory Square in Key West, I met this French guy who trained his cats quite well. They did a fairly complex agility course (including jumps through hoola hoops). Plus they could line up in order and sit. It was an impressive display. A couple of my dollars went into his hat. After constantly tossing him off in the middle of the night, and the wife being upset about me waking her, I taught our cat "*my* side of the bed". Every time he'd crawl on me, I'd snarl that command and he'd relocate to the opposite corner by my wife's feet! Oh and remind parents that you are doing the boy a favor. He'll thank you when he's 17.5 and knows to ASAP knock on a counselor's door for one of the "management" MB's in time to actually earn it and keep his chance for Eagle alive!

Yep. Do it all the time with crews and troops. I feel a little bit "safer" knowing other drivers are heading my direction! I think the youth are better off for the friendships they make. The key is good communication. You need a good estimation of the patrol leaders and their navigation skills. (Canoes can get spread apart and miss pull-outs and portages.) For a big trip it never hurts to have the PLC's meet once or twice ahead of time and have a pre-trip shake-down.

Go for your best choice. Period. If your ASM's are stand-up guys, they'll fill in the gaps. If not, you'll have to reduce part of your program to fit the SM's schedule. Either way, you'll have the role-model you think your boys need.

pack: It doesn't matter that adults screwed up. Actually, it does. We are not teaching our boys unnecessary beaureucratic nonsense. We are teaching them to serve their community. I don't know this kid from Adam, but E92 says he's a stand-up kid who fulfilled the requirements until someone a month before deadline added a local stipulation. That stipulation should be overturned, and time should be put back on the clock for the boy to fulfill the requirement.

Our council operates like Scoutnut's, and it's pretty smooth. E92, sounds like you're wading through a mess. When this happens folks will tag you as trying to upset the apple cart. As necessary as that may be, you need to make clear to everyone that you are standing by a fine young man - and the book. That works both ways, point out to scout mom that expert litigators will take attention away from her boy's hard work. Really, the best way to do this is have council staff call National while you and your district advancement chair are in the same room. Everybody will hear how the chips would fall, and take action to get a worthy service project started with a minimum of delays due to paper pushing!

One more idea to the brainstorm pile: Have the PLC do a skit on the process of earning a merit badge. You'd need at least three actors, one for SM, one for MBC, and one for Scout. The SM is stage right, the MBC is stage left. The scout's home/school/hangout is center stage. Open with the scout at home a little bored, so he decides to work on advancement. He finds his handbook and reads off the list of merit badges until he finds one that interests him. The scout goes back and forth between home, SM, and MBC. SM fills out a blue card and suggests an MBC. MBC demonstrates how he would set goals for each meeting, and arrange to meet in accordance to YP standards. You can even have the boys act out a couple of the distractions (video games, friends, misplaced blue card, uncharged cell phone, etc ...) that get in the way of earning that badge. I just thought of it, so obviously never tried it, but I'm gonna float it by our boys. (One former SPL is really into theater.) If any of yours do it first (or have already done something like it), let us know how it turns out.

We don't know how much they are "lying". Seems like the cards are all on the table. There's no telling how much the young lady is aware of it. But it sure does sound like "hiding in plain site." Considering how few cubs actually cross-over, there's even-odds that this will be an issue for her in two years. But, if it is, here's hoping the GS troops in her area will be a good fit for those 4 years before she's a venturer. (BD's experience parallels mine. There was simply no scouting for my daughter until she finished 8th grade!)

Al, I think your program is good. Leaning on the boys to "hand down" skills needed for particular badges adds to the life of your troop. But, it's a good idea for you and the boys to figure out what MB's they'd like to learn about, but nobody in the group has any skills. Part of your program could be inviting an expert to come and discuss his/her hobby or occupation. That should increase the comfort of the boys in contacting the MBC. What if you're troop doesn't know someone for a badge the boys are interested in? That's what district round-tables are for! In total, merit badge education should be a district activity since there are too many badges for any one troop to promote. But obviously each troop will have to set their own level of district involvement.

-fish's definition is closest to my working definition. Except we've got these beautiful hills, so you don't necessarily have to be driving, you can stop on a spot, and if it's on a grade, you will be moving! Anyway, I redeemed the day by taking my dog for a hike through the snow with a scout parent and sharing my espresso with his family. I said to his son, "There's nothing sadder than seeing your backpack in your living room!"

"Beautiful snow here, treacherous ice and freezing rain there." -- so my campingless streak is extended once again. The SM and I spun our gears over this one up until just now. We decided to postpone pulling out last night. Our departure time was set just at the beginning of the advisory yesterday, and folks at camp said that the freezing rain did not start until well after we would have made it to our cabin. We could have gotten there and been stuck until tomorrow which would have suited us just fine. Now, it's a sheet of black ice for miles around camp and nothings moving. The adult in me says gotta respect our drivers. The kid in me is surly and ill-tempered. I was looking forward to throwing that espresso pot on the wood stove about now, but instead I shoveled snow (fighting the dog the whole way for the shovel) while son #1 cooked up some pancakes and a decent cup of coffee (fairly strong, and with none of the Missus' vanilla flavoring to stink up the whole place ). Guess I'll stay and work on my WB ticket, and try to stir up some youth to have some fun in this snow ...

So wether it be God, Buddha, Odin, Allah, Durga, or Zues.... I guess that's my hang-up. English speakers chose the term "God" to refer to the highest authority of any and all religion. Then Christians successfully pounded it into peoples' heads that this refers to a personal being with a Bible full of very specific traits. So what seems to me to be a perfectly serviceable word is getting tossed by the wayside. (Using SP's term, it's no longer the "mush" it used to be!) So, I go about telling my youth that part of their religious duty is to nurture their understanding of "God" by practicing and growing in their faith. That leads some to fill that container with Jehovah; others the Holy Trinity; others My Dahma; and so on ... This approach seems to help everyone get over the oath and be a little more open to one another's world views. But I'm working with older youth who are capable of that nuanced view. Plus, I haven't been confronted by a Buddhist scout or venturer on the matter. I've only heard cub parents bring it up. So, I'm trolling for an approach that works for them. So far, CambrigeSkip's seems to be the easiest.

I think that may become a personal policy from now on dealing with Eagles Candidates and Scouts asking for money.....I need to see a hard copy of their project budget BD, that's what I teach my 3rd-5th grade Sunday School Students about any church they decide to join. Forget statements of faith. To know if they believe in what you believe, ask to see their budget.