qwazse

Good questions KC! Our units don't "count" stuff. They accomplish goals. They will tell me in no uncertain terms that fun had better be a major goal or the deal's off. School of Hard Knocks has taught me:Covering the same material twice is not fun.Being separated into different units for no good reason is not fun.(Like C21 mentioned, unruly 11-13 y.o.'s may be a good reason.) So yeah, I'm thinking of one course from which a young man could earn trained patches suitable for both uniforms if he desired. (My young women seem not to care about patches, BTW. Nevertheless, if she's motivated, she would be welcome to learn the "nitty gritty" of troop leadership.) Most of the chapters would be done in a common area with SPL and Crew President dividing responsibilities for instruction among Officers and PL's. The chapters that are unit specific would be done in breakout sessions. Maybe at staggered times so that if a youth wanted, he/she could sit in on the other session. (Again, I got no problem if a young lady is interested in what is being taught in a troop-specific component.) Anyway, that's where I'm leaning. But I'm also lazy, so I'm collecting a bunch of other folks' ideas here before sending my youth down this path!

I can only judge by the youth coming into my crew. Most GS come in with strong organizational skills. Maybe that's because there is no CO to provide some things a lot of our boys take for granted. With their peers, they know how to generate fun. They are the ones who pack in speakers so we can have a dance party on the beach. Around the campfire, they are the ones singing until midnight! Most non-GS (male or female) think way out of the box. They have big ideas, make friendship with strangers, and could care less about fitting in molds. Age differences don't phase them much. They are the ones who get the idea that growth means looking for the kid who's missing out, sitting at his shelter, and letting him make you a cup of tea. Getting them to pick up a little of each other's gifts and talents is the fun part of advising a crew, and being part of a CO who has a similar mission helps a little, I think. Obviously, by age 17, any scout or venturer who sticks with the program is cut from rare stock. Perhaps there is a national structure that would suit some of them, but a lot of them are looking for community, and it's the CO's responsibility to model that. In that context, churches, temples, and fire companies fit the bill because they are "called" to get into the nitty-gritty of life. I have no problem with a bunch of small BSA units in every religious or civic group in town. So, in spite of the shortcomings of the CO model, it has a slew of perks that centralized national organizations are in no position to provide.

Our cabin weekend is usually one with a lot of slack time. The boys sled. We do a little business. The sled. They play cards. They sled. We help some first-years with some basic instruction for advancement. Sometime in all that they make food, keep the fire going, and clean up.

All of the above, and ask yourself this question: What is the best way I can assist all of these boys in this troop around my son? Just as the one skill your son will be gaining is how to tap other folks besides Mom or Dad for assistance, there are all those other boys who need someone to call on for something, a couple of them may be best served if that someone is you. Example from my experience: on the campout after son #1 crossed over, I took for granted the SPL knew how to season a dutch oven. One melted oven later, I realized that this fine young man could benefit from a little direct supervision on setting up a cooking fire -- not a blast furnace, another dad realized that the QM could use a little coaching on tracking our troop's cast-iron cookware -- not to be confused with summer camp's aluminum gear. Have fun. Get trained. Watch son git 'er done!

First, I show a boy where in the book he should list his activities. (Why it's not in the requirements page simply defies reason. So, I figure this is one case where I don't just give the kid the "There's this thing called an index line.") I encourage him to write down the one or two he's seen so far. Second, I encourage PLs to only sign that one off if the activities are listed in the scout's own writing. The point of this is in my opinion to teach the boy a basic discipline of reflecting on his scouting career - not to make sure his attendance is checked off and logged in some electronic administrative quagmire. Here's one for y'all. Thanks to enthusiastic parents, boy's 10th activity is a council event that he attended on a weekend when the troop had nothing planned. If he put it down, I'd count it. What would you do?

Don't think of it in terms of "for everybody." My jambo experience did two things: - give me a chance to meet new friends and operate under a different SM. Basically, taught me how to talk to strangers. - introduce me to minimum impact camping. (Not at our campsite, there was a demonstration of it a footpath somewhere.) Those were two skills that I've been sharing for the rest of my life. Never felt the need to go back. Some folks are born with a real convention mentality. So what if it's only 6%? That may mean just one of your boys is the in that number. Recommend him for Jambo while the rest of you sail to Hawaii! What you don't want is that one kid on your boat in the Pacific whining "I'd rather be mountain-boarding at Jambo now!"

Wow, C21, it's like I have an evil twin! I have nothing against council-wide training. Two of my crew taught the council ILSC this summer and one is likely to teach it this spring. However, my youth are not interested in council training for lots of reasons (distance, timing, cost). But, like your youth, they haven't built up the discipline needed to organize a venue for their crew. Unlike yours, more than half of ours are multiples with one troop, so what one unit decides likely impacts the other. I'm just looking to make it a positive impact. Thanks for the encouraging feedback.

'Cad, most churches don't hold the SM in as "high" a position as a pastor or youth minister. So, they aren't inclined to impose a code of conduct on volunteers who are orderly and respectful. It is a good idea to let them know that you are "their" outreach, not the BSA's. Sounds like you are willing to get any kind of kid to darken the door of the church for the sake of scouting. Most Christians are very proud to allow that to happen. It's also a good idea to let them know they have a say in the goings on in your council. There might be a church member who discovers that could be his "ministry." But fewer Christians these days see being a board member as a calling, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for such a one to step forward.

Have any of you with hands in both Troop and Crew "campfires" held (or considered holding) Introduction to Leadership Skills for Troops and Introduction to Leadership Skills for Crews simultaneously? The boys in my crew are good candidates for both, but training is a tough sell on a good day. They aren't going to spare two different weekends for two similar courses. The SM and I might be able to get a few key youth together if we pool resources. That could make it fun for everyone involved. Thoughts? Ideas? Parallel question for the patch-obsessed: if a boy gets ILST then multiples with a crew, how much ILSC does he need to earn a venturing trained patch?

3/5 done. Expect shorter post from me for the next couple of months.

Ya, sure. Make the boys do more paperwork and table any real working independence. The boys will love you for that! If you are going to "ease" your way into more youth leadership. Give them a serious responsibility. Choose a real route to hike. Collect real money. Buy real food.

not afforded the opportunity to earn initials on these requirements so they did the right thing and lost The lock-in sounds like a lot of fun. The boys who went are winners. They'll get all the initials they need when they're good and ready. The other boys got helicopter-parented for the sake of a few check-marks, if that's winning it's a rather Pyrrhic victory.

I have one youth who is working on her venturing Bronze religious award and touches base every month or so as to her progress(who's helping her with what, etc ...) Keep in mind that each bronze award requirement is roughly as time consuming as an elective merit badge -- although the process of getting signed off is nowhere near as formal as the blue card system. It would be a much different award if she came to me saying "Here are affidavits that I did these requirements ... how 'bout some bling?" They may very well be letters from all of the people who I would have had work with her, but I would have been left out of the loop. So much for that "advisor" patch! So I see E732's point. In this day and age a kid can pop you an E-mail so distance doesn't matter. The kid shouldn't be required to shuttle blue cards halfway across the country if there's a responsible adult that can fill in for an SM, but an SM should be kept in the loop. But sometimes you gotta let the water over the dam. When the boy's back from camp, I would saddle the kid with presenting a bunch of material that he learned. Not as punishment, but having earned so many MB's he's probably picked up a few interesting skills that could benefit the rest of the group. If there is no indication that the boy knows the material, that's when you really need to have words with the camp director!

Fred, Just because something sounds like "aVenruring concept" doesn't mean it is. True, I expect more of my crew in terms of management. But the boys in the troop sometimes have moments of brilliance. Plus, the boys have a responsibility to tend to 11-13 year olds, whereas in the crew any such obligation is voluntary. Like jblake points out, you can only push as far as the adults can stand. I would also add that you want the boys to leverage their talents. One scribe might need more intervention from your Advancement Coordinator than another.

sorry, triple post.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

Sorry, double post.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

I'm with CP. If the boy held a POR for four months, and nobody questioned how he was doing his job at at the time, then he's good to go. If only other boys' parents would help them live up to their position! But I would ask the boy if he would like to do things differently for his next rank. Maybe he would like to do the position differently. More help from a friend inatead of a parent, for example. maybe a different position, like instructor which may challenge his communication skills. this information will help his new SM get him plugged in to troop life.

"Justify" it to whom? I don't think the OP was suggesting there was the NA police out there. Really, the only folks we need to justify our actions to is ourselves. There's no outside entity obliging us respect or disrespect any other group. That said, the way we imitate NA culture should reflect our ideals. Is it ... Trustworthy: Do the dances reflect the character of the tribe or tribes who might witness a ceremony? Does it give non-NAs a fair vision of NA culture? Loyal: Are we being faithful to the people whose ancestors walked this land long before us? Helpful: Are we assisting the tribes who need our assistance? Friendly: Are we building and maintaining ongoing relationships with tribal leaders? Courteous: Does what we do show respect? Do we learn boundaries? Kind: Are we humble? When we offend, do we make an effort to be understanding? Obedient: When given boundaries we stay in them? Cheerful: Are we taking up solemn responsibilities with joy? Are we sharing the joy we gain with others? Thrifty: Are we using our resources wisely, and not playing a game of costume "one-upmanship"? Brave: Are we taking a stand? Clean: Is how we act and speak about another culture high and pure? Reverent: Are we working out our duty to God through understanding NE culture? If this is what your are doing as you incorporate NA cultural practices, then you have your justification. This doesn't mean you'll be free from criticism from everyone. It just means you're living up to your ideals to the best of your ability.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

Also I've been told a lot of the changes are a result of emergency medicine on the battlefield. ... and campus shootings ...

So where are the boys supposed to learn the skills????? Don't worry, BD, they'll all have EDGE. No need for references!

Why can't we sell decorative tins? That would bring the price closer to $5 per unit. The line could be "Scout spirit enclosed, just add your favorite holiday treat!!"

KC - you bet your graphite pole lighting can sneak up on you (in the Appalacian foothills)! Especially if you are in a sound dampening wooded ravine and the closest thing to your are noisy scouts. The first strike you notice may be five miles away and closing quickly. I've started to carry a weather radio that is pre-set to national weather service channels. It does ease the mind a little bit.

IMHO - The largest reason why some folks don't believe in uniforming is that rolling out a new model uniform every couple of years has lead to very non-uniform uniforms -- especially from the waist down. At Scout Sunday I noticed this even in our shirts. Some boys had their Centenial uniform with khaki green epaulets, others had red epaulets. Our council just merged so shoulder patches were not all changed over. One mom who usually only sees me at scout meetings noticed I had my venturing shirt and the Kelly green epaulets. My newest female venturers said she felt odd sitting with the scouts when she and two of my officers didn't have a uniform even though they were compliant with the crew's dress code and looked sharp! In a sense, National doesn't believe in uniform. Their marketing promotes comfort (which some of here debate) and trendiness over conformity. So, why should we bother? Honestly, on the parade field some of those "all blue jeans" troops with vintage shirts look more uniform than the "national supply" troops where half the boys are in the latest style and the other half are in what their older brother got when he crossed over.

Not taking personal! Just trying to put some meat on boy-adult balancing act. Oh, and I haven't pulled out an inspection sheet since I was SPL. Except for once at the request of one SM, and then the boys were allowed to inspect the "old fart patrol." I have answered honest questions about insignia to the best of my knowledge -- looking up an answer when I was stumped. And, I have been able to outmaneuver most uniform police. So, I think we're both talking from opposite sides of the same coin. My ongoing approach (applied regularly to scout-son #2): Make clear what it means to be "in uniform" or not. Use a reference he can return to (just because it's better than EDGE). Avoid making a Federal case of the whole thing. And, let him bust my chops when it applies. FWIW - the best way I've seen this operate is when the SPL goes around the room and gives a vintage patch to each person in proper uniform. Minimum lecture, maximum action. Adults may qualify too (although we usually wind up tossing the patch in the bin on our way out the door). It's a great way to get those old collections out the door but not in the garbage.

I love the concept (and the challenge!) Additional question: how do you all pack it so you don't have carbon smudging all your gear? (I'm really not as fastidious as that just sounded, but I was just wondering.)