qwazse

I've seen our not-ready-for-prime-time boys bow out of the election or before the ordeal. I've seen one or two of the rest rise up to the ordeal and really get a lot out of the program. All of this played out as they still camped and hiked with the troop, so everyone (except the first-years) had some idea of what was at stake come the next election. So, I think a little lesson-learning did go on. I guess this process is acceptable to the O/A, so I never questioned the lack of formal feedback to non-candidates.

Let me make this simple: my UC has not darkened my crew's door since its inception. So where do I go for outside help (besides these forums )? I have certain seasoned advisors on speed-dial. (The advisor's advisors, if you will.) They all are leaders in their respective units. I'm pretty sure none of them have logged the amount of help they've given me, but other than that, I consider them my mentors. I'm not about to question the propriety of this. I just thank God that they took time out from managing their respective units to coach me along the way. 'nuff said

Following up on the other thread about youth leadership in multi-unit events ... Why don't you find out which troops/packs are meeting early this week, pay a visit to one or two, and ask the boys what they'd like to see in a gateway? One fun idea would be a "wood-shingle" sign-in. Have boys burn or paint 1/2 tongue depressor sticks with their name and unit number, glue velcro on the back of the round end and stick 'em to a felt board in a layered fashion. The rough flat end would hang down and form the roof. Invite the boy-scouts to come and decorate their own shingle. I bet you'll have quite a few of the older boys stopping by to give it a go! Pre-dip the sticks in light stain (food coloring maybe?) that corresponds to epaulets (so you can tell cubs from boys etc ....). They can double as buddy-tags if your event involves any activity that needs that sort of thing.

The National Council reserves the term "Jamboree" for National and International events. So local councils CAN'T call local events "jamboree" without National approval. But does national approve of some councils labeling their big events "Jamborees", or do councils proceed on a "better to ask forgiveness than permission" basis? In any case I'm proud to be part of an organization that caused Webster's to re-write their entry on this one.

IR, I think it was our lodge chief's idea to invite cubs. He was an exceptional youth leader. The challenge, of course, is finding those leaders every year, giving them an "iron in the fire" at every level in the council, and appropriately recognizing their commitment to scouting. Wouldn't it be cool, for example, to plan a Cub-O-Ree by getting a bunch of denners in the same room and asking them what they would like to see/do? Give them the right amount of ice-cream and candy-bars and I bet you couldn't write their ideas down fast enough!

DS, My situation is like yours. Best I can figure is make sure everyone who comes through the door is welcome and appreciated.

The original topic was about multi unit events -- some of which sound insanely cool! That leads me to ask the next question: Planning or implementation, youth led or adult led? Folks in Laurel Highlands Council are welcome to chime in and disagree, but from what I've seen: Venturing events: youth led with adult coaching where needed. If youth say "no", we don't do. Adults step up in terms of administration recruiting staff, etc ... at the pleasure of the VOA president. OA events: youth+adult. Lodge chief has a big influence here. Boy scout events: adult led. Period. Youth may or may not be staffing. However, the adults do seem to be getting feedback from their home units as they plan. combined programs: adult led. By force of majority, Venturing would have little say, but to my knowledge they are never asked for input. However, when crews manage to have their own event-within-the-event, they are welcome to use existing infrastructure to pull it off. How 'bout your council?

But if a troop elects a dud, or fails to elect a good candidate, to OA they never feel the results of their decision and so learn no lessons. I have seen this happen within the troop a couple of times. Did the "duds" pass their ordeal? Did they cause harm to the chapter?

Thanks, Joe, My bottom line: how well does it perform offline? Can you cache a collection of tiles (including ones with your markers, etc ...) to an iPad for later viewing? While offline, can you add markup (waypoints, pics, blogs)? Can you backup that collection when you get back online? If so, then I'll give it a trial run next weekend.

Where I am really struggling with this personally is that as a PARENT I am not supposed to have to deal with this, so I thought. This was the big difference between Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts..."Son, it is now up to you to chart your own path and take responsibility for your own stuff." Yes, Brew, we want it to be the boy's journey. And if your boy is up for talking to the SM and asking for a different counselor who will take the requirements seriously, then let him. If not, like BD said, you have a plan. Work it. You can consider the problem solved once the boy can say with confidence "I have completed the requirements." instead of "He/she signed off, it must be okay." Hopefully in a few years your boy will be asked in his Eagle board of review what he did to be worthy of his rank. He won't want to say he collected a bunch of signatures! BTW - If requirements are being shortchanged, it's not your son's Eagle that's being tarnished, it's all of ours. This also happens when folks make Eagle requirements so onerous that boys quit before even trying. So pardon us if our "encouragement" is sounding a bit harsh. We know it's not your fault. We just figure you are the first person in your troop who will make a difference -- for the good of all the boys.

Insurance liability is not a factor in TPs. TP's are for accountability, and you probably have higher powers who you need to reckon with (the Mrs. or your Mama for example). Spend the time you'd otherwise waste on paperwork checking your oil and brakes.

-fish, Sorry, I thought your question was more about the term because I take for granted that every so often councils and areas should host big blow-out events. So let me outline what I see happening in our neck of the woods: Districts (which are arms of the council) host camping events spring/winter/fall as long as there are units who will contribute. O/A being the cheerful service arm of council and hosts several events a year for their members. On one of those, they invited cubs to attend. Venturing Officers Association (VOA) hosts 3 big events a year. One is a set of multi-weekend ski days for Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts, and Venturers. Each ski day is open to any type of unit, but nearby scout reservation is available for over nights for specific groups each weekend (first weekend is for Venturers, second for Cubs, third and fourth for Boy-Scouts). I can't speak to the Cub's and Boy's (except to say our troop wasn't interested because they ski at a different resort), but the Venturing "Winter Getaway Weekend" draws units from out-of-council. Council holds camporees every other year or so. Last year's was a multi-unit event for all program areas. It was so popular they will do it again next year. The plus was a professional fireworks display on the scout reservation (first ever of its type). The down-side was that it was adult led and didn't really account for the diversity of units. Area VOA hosts one event per year for Venturers. It draws units from all councils and out-of-area. At this age, youth are looking for fellowship-type events out-of-council, so these events are in big demand relative to the size of our programs. Post 2010 Jambo, the Area held a fall weekend event at Moraine State Park (a former Jambo site) for all youth in all programs from all councils. The Arrowmen really did a bang-up job staffing that one! For me personally, I got to introduce my son to my former SPL, who serves his council the opposite side of the state. These big events do draw a lot of kids, but percentage-wise, only a fraction of my youth attend any one of them. You have to be of a certain ilk to put up with hundreds to thousands of campers in your vicinity. Although some folks are clamoring for another big area event, I definitely prefer the smaller VOA events and O/A conclaves that have more youth input in their design and implementation.

Ditto to all of the above. IMHO, your knots should tell a story of how you can help others. It's the man behind them that matters! Thanks for your service. I know unit leaders who were simultaneously UCs, but they eventually transitioned away from the direct contact leadership. Most guys can't afford the flowers and chocolate needed for the Mrs. to support them in both jobs! From your description, I would suggest working the SM gig for a little while longer to decide what from "back in the day" still works for you, find your replacement, then work the UC so you infect more SMs hungry for mentoring.

This has little to do with your son or your role as a parent. It has everything to undermining the value of that bird that we hang from left pockets. I would (and I have done) something. I'd ask folks to stick to the standards or risk undermining the awards of every boy who had a blue card with their signature on it. Regarding your son, I would challenge him as mentioned above. I would ask the SM to refer him to a different counselor.

My momma told me you better shop around!!!

The term predates BS. So there's nothing stopping a council from using it. As far as I can recall, however, our council (and in 2010, our area) termed their gatherings camporees. Venturing in our area started to call their gatherings summits, not to be confused with the location at Bechtel!

Bottom line: It REALLY pays to visit different troops and/or crews to see how they operate. One of my WB buddies had his beading at his troop's CoH, so I got to see how his troop operated. It was radically different from our troop's. It reminded me more of my childhood troop. It leaned much more on advancements being distributed by patrols. Now, I'm not going to go back and say, "That's it, y'all are gonna get your act together." But maybe at a campfire or by the shoreline I'll "float some balloons" to the SPL or the scout who needs to emcee and event for communications MB. I'm sure half of them will get "popped", but one or two may stick. Like Kudu said, PM is a function of strong PLs. Which I think is in turn a function of the SM nurturing the boys who are coming up as leaders. (And being courageous enough to do that 300' thing!)

TT: There are two kinds of absence. The first kind PL no-shows and things fall apart in his absence. The second kind PL calls APL and preps him for whatever needs done. Either way you're missing a PL. They look the same on the books. But in one way his presence is still made known!

One of the hardest challenges in youth leadership is allowing time for reflection. For example, one of the dads and I routinely evaluate our tent set-up and configuration. Half the time before breakfast involves determining if we picked the best site, configured bedding in the best possible way, ventilated the tent/shelter too much/too little. It's all part of the ongoing critique to improve our technique. But with the boys (and young women in my crew), I'm a little less interrogative unless it's clear they are eager to have the discussion or we need to forestall death. Youth don't know that it's okay to critique, so you have to help the conversation without overwhelming them. And you have to do so in areas that are important to the boys. For your troop 1, maybe presentation is really important, so the SM is helping them reflect as they proceed. For your troop 2, maybe camping nights are really important, so that SM will intervene and ask at a PLC "Hey can we fit another weekend in this month?" Of course you only saw the CoH, not the PLC, so there's no way of knowing how pervasive the SM's philosophy is short of asking him. (And of course, the "do you act this way to the boys all the time?" may come off as a bit critical.) And you don't know which priorities resonate best with your boys until they visit each troop's meetings and participates in their activities.

Yes, do your homework. You'll find it rewarding getting know some of these folks. Talk to your sheriff's department as well. They may be able to put you in touch with a canine rescue group. Don't forget to ask the den's parents if they have any connections you all can leverage. Some troops and crews are also associated with fire halls and ambulance services. There may be a youth or young adult among them who can help. Bring it up at roundtable or give your district commish a call. I agree with BD that kids this age want to have fun, but for me at that age sports was a true misery. Learning how to talk to a dispatcher was very engaging. My mom had fainted at home a year earlier, and I was barely able to call Dad and explain the situation. Knowing how to handle these situations was important to me. Not everything works with every boy, so you have to focus on an activity for a couple of weeks, then move on. If the boys want to do something again, they'll tell you in no uncertain terms.

I'm a fan of the BSA pre-ODL uni's. Maybe that's because the boys who I've seen wearing them stand out and look very sharp. I like the ODL's epaulet simplicity for distinguishing cubs vs. boys, but think we botched it by insisting that Exploring and Venturing use green shirts. I would rather have tan/khaki shirts for all and go nuts with epaulet's of a color for each program area. -- Similar to the Scouts Queensland shoulder colors, but more translatable and mixable. -- For example a youth multiple of crew and troop, could order a half-green and half-red epaulets. A venturing officer in unit/council/area roles could have 1/3 green, 1/3 silver, 1/3 yellow epaulets! But my pie-in-the-sky wish is that scout shop would sell uniform fabric, and the pattern for the uni as part of the BSHB. (Size-specific patterns could be sold at the shop.) IMHO, the uni- should be something that could be made by a resourceful mom or youth with access to a place like these forums for "tips and tricks" to tailor it for a unit's specific needs.

"Green Bar" Bill Hillcourt defined working as a patrol outdoors as the linchpin method of scouting. (The "Green Bar" patrol was the cracker-jack group that we all tried to live up to.) Some of the founders of this forum have close ties to him. Most of us got to know him for through his articles in Boys Life. I think I stopped using a flashlight to walk through the woods on a moonlit night thanks to him. But, I'm sure through other adults who were influenced by his training, I can attribute most of the fun stuff I know about scouting to him. Wood Badge is touted as the premier leadership training course that scouting has to offer. Some here debate that hotly. Unlike outdoor leader skills courses, it's a whole lot of talking, so if you do ever take it, I would suggest you find a course that they tailor to the hearing impaired.

Oh, the soul searching post-election! We had one boy who had to figure out that practical jokes needed to go before he could be worthy of votes. I thought that would be the worst, but then ... We had a boy who didn't get elected until the fourth try. He was notorious for turning every conversation into some sexual innuendo or another. His parents couldn't understand it. True, he was a hard worker. He would help younger scouts. He was friendly enough to every scout. But his mouth made the little ones uncomfortable. (And that's only what we would hear him say and call him on it and he'd straiten up, for a day or so.) How do you spell that out to folks that you are in no position to ask a troop to overlook a fault like that? Anyway, it got to the point (after year 3, I think) where anytime the boy would take a conversation with me and run it into the gutter, I would reply "And you wonder why?" He knew that I was referring precisely to those OA elections. I confess, it was more to give me a few minutes peace than to help the boy's character. But, over time I think the message sunk in. He has cleaned up his act enough that this last election stuck. He's far more discrete about what he says. We just have to work on what he posts on Facebook after a girlfriend dumps him As iron sharpens iron ...

Most of the advise here is on how to adapt rather than change what's going on, and I'll guess I'll add to it. It is differently OK for you to go our of council or participate on different council committee's than your predecessor. That way, when you get together you can compare notes. There are a lot of niches to fill in OA. Find one. Fill it. Look out for the boys in your troop who might benefit from being an OA rep or even lodge chief. Support them. Don't assume that it's because of the old guard that your ideas are falling flat. Ask adults open-ended questions like "What was wrong with that idea I had?", "Do you think it is worth keeping that goal?", "How would you make it work?" No, you don't have to attend everything. Our troop rotates leaders who go to roundtables. Some ASM's are much better suited to supervise activities, let 'em. If I were you, I would focus on getting the older boys to reflect on their career. By that I mean asking them to lead a training activity (ILST, maybe) or leadership retreat or cracker barrel where you as an SM subtly ask about leadership styles and where they see the adults in their lives fitting in. You don't even have to stick around for the end of the conversation! The goal is just to get them to think about their role models before they leave the troop. Only pull out the Drill Instructor card if the boys are asking to look sharper on the parade field. Or if they booked a trip for Philmont but aren't pulling off the conditioning hikes. Finally, just because this guy was SM for 30 years, doesn't mean you have to be. Start looking for your replacement. It may take a couple of years before the right adult comes forward.

Thanks for the heads-up, I got me a pair of them canvas shorts!