qwazse

Venturing committees at different councils constantly think of different ways to promote their program. Not a fan of the time-share sales pitch approach. We Anyway the distinctive activities are go-carts and pistols, but that's not what really sells the program to boys. It's the "who" as much as the "what". The chance to hit a tougher hike at Philmont one last time was a big draw for some boys aging out of the troop. Fellowship with girl friends was a big draw for some. The ability to create an activity to attract boys who aren't into troop life was a big deal. It's interesting how only a few younger boys are looking forward to joining the crew.

Welcome to the forums. It's a fun place for thinking things through. Now for an opinion from the beer distributor's son: There is absolutely nothing wrong with a scout walking up to a bar and getting a soft drink. In fact training a boy that he can go to a social venue and not necessarily order alcohol is a good thing. (E.g., Seabase Bahamas, the boys are expected to refill their water bottles from the bartenders at the local resorts.) You should expect adult leaders to not drink alcohol when in their official capacity with the boys. Uniforms are completely irrelevant. You certainly wouldn't ask an adult to remove his if he's sitting at a stool after a meeting making sure boys get their rides home. That said, out of respect for parents, you want to make sure that if you hold a scouting function there, the boys have a place where alcohol (including advertisements for it) is out of sight. Also discuss this with the bar-tender. The club may have rules about non-members at the bar, and you want to respect those.

I'm on the pro- side of this one. At least for venturers ... My venturers stink at memorization. The always need "cheat sheets" when it comes time to say the oath in public. We work closely with our sister troop. It would be nice to have more than just the outdoor code in common. In another Crew with a close relationship to their troop, they go about memorizing the scout oath and law anyway. Don't get me wrong, I *like* the venturing oath and code.(Having been a late teen once upon a time, I get the developmentally appropriate word choice.) But, my youth could care less. If Tico gets the average youth on the national youth cabinet, it may be a done deal. The venturers I've met don't have a chip on their shoulder about needing to "be an entirely different program" from Boy Scouts. From their perspective, saving time reciting 3 different oaths during joint activities translates into dismissal from flag two minutes earlier! In fact, I would not be surprised if a seasoned venturer brought gave him the idea.

in the history of man there has only been one person who lived without sin and he has been dead for almost 2000 years. Correction, dead for 0.01 years by all first century accounts. The rest of the time I suspect he's been helping the citizens of Sodom make their case on Judgment Day.

Considering my tent is no more than 2.5 feet high ...

I could see the UoS course now: "Gaydar Operations." Horizon, I'm sorry my word choice got up your craw. There are reasons for it, which I won't belabor here. Suffice it to say that there's trouble on both sides of the issue. Frankly, there will never be an operations manual on how to screen your parents for leadership roles. There's the application, reference checks, and that's it. I think we owe it to our fellow leaders to let them know what they may be up against as we learn of any issues that may disqualify them. We need to decide how we would act, and be honest and up front about that. But I certainly am not about to discuss with anyone besides my COR any standard operation procedure. As much as I don't like years-after-the-fact calls from the SE, I hate more adding to the collection of unwritten rules folks expect us to follow.

Yep, this group needs a little more guidance. I personally don't care about if an adult's on the roster, I would probably use their guest status as a carrot. Some thing like: "PLs, after the meal, I'm asking Mr. DeanRx to walk around your sights and inspect for cleanliness. At campfire/flags we'll gather and review any problems he saw. Tidest partrol gets a cup of candy coated almonds from my personal stash." I definitely ask adults if there is anything they'd like to help the boys learn and announce to the boys a time and location. (Usally someplace within earshot so I can still enjoy my coffee and knot puzzle ) Again, I'm not looking for a patch on someone's sleeve. Just a Person willing to use his time. [insert vitriolic diatribe re: EDGE from my other posts here] Understand that the boy may not be as selfish has it sounds. He might be saying "your helping me by letting me help you." The PLs need to learn to set aside time during the day to review progress. Things can't always be signed off the minute they're done, but there should be a moment, say after dinner, that the PL can commit to. That way, he's nearby to supervise KP. It sounds like the older boys are gearing up for some high adventure. So this may be the way things will be for quite a few campouts. Meet with SM, and see how things improve. Every ASM has his/her style. You will need to figure out how you can work with the one you've got!

I can see a lot of kids (i.e. mine) scrambling to get homework done Sunday PM. Otherwise, great plan.

A little advice from the "seen it more times than I'd care to and am still talking to boys years later over it" section. Don't count chickens. Touch base regularly with the senior boys. Ask, "What did you do before? What should we keep doing? What should we ditch?" Respect those parents in the best way you can. Find high ground. Walk it. Like I mentioned in the other thread. If they boys do the talking, it will save you a lot of wasted words. Your son especially is studying your reactions. He might not understand why you put up with people who don't want you around, or why you push certain issues and not others. You don't owe him any explanation now, but in a couple years, he'll ask to reflect on it. By the time my oldest asked me, I had already time to look back boil it down for him (or anyone else for that matter) to one thing: "Highest respect to whoever does the work. Polite nods to whoever talks about it." Your personal prime directive may be a little different. But consider yourself in a fishbowl, and you're son will want to hear about it one day.

I if she would be interested in the trail to a Venturing silver award, I'm sure there would be an advisor who would welcome her to the "dark side." In fact, I might have the number of one in the Pittsburgh area ....

... scout wanting to ... signed off on by our SM ... That's all your committee needs to know. Don't tell the SM to steer clear of anything! This is why I never ask someone for a rule. They'll make one up for you. And for the love of all that is right and good about troop committees, don't you be one of those rule-fabricators! Your ship needs no barnacles on its hull!

... scout wanting to ... signed off on by our SM ... That's all your committee needs to know. Don't tell the SM to steer clear of anything! This is why I never ask someone for a rule. They'll make one up for you. And for the love of all that is right and good about troop committees, don't you be one of those rule-fabricators! Your ship needs no barnacles on its hull!

Have you met with your PLs? Have they told you what they would like to do? Do they understand the cost of the program they are asking for? You may want to consider having your SPL join you at committee meetings. Parents need to hear from their boys. It needs to be about the boys. What does your charter org rep say?

Yep, a lot of is don't get Texas. Yet, getting on good terms with some local ranchers and finding a way or hike a few miles in open country might be a fine change of pace. One thing that I saw a troop from Michigan use backpacking was lightweight patrol flies. I think four guys would comfortably sleep under them them. Two per patrol, around a campfire, and you have a rain break, but still that open feel so nobody's walled off from anyone else, That set up could be a cost-effective complement to the "bunk house" which you would use in a more public setting.

Most towns and parks where we live have capital for projects (grants, unfunded mandates that cover material but not labor). Same applies to churches. They are just waiting for that one person to rally community volunteers. The only question: is your boy that person? Our life scouts spend months trying to figure out what project they would like to do. Sometimes we can tell that a boy is grasping for low hanging fruit (perhaps to keep mom from nagging?), but his heart's not in the project. When the boy has something in his sights that he really cares about, it's obvious. Mom and dad may pitch in, but the boy won't count on just them. He will ask for help from everyone. He will tell you in his own words why he project is important. It doesn't have to be the boy's idea. In fact sometimes seeing a wish list from an organization he cares about can be a learning experience in itself. He gets a big picture "the whole pie" if you will, and decides "that slice is mine." The one thing I tell the boys: 10 or even 20 years from now, it would be nice to have something to brag about to the woman you want to marry or that little kid who thinks the world of you.

As a result, the 20 plus hours she had already put into the planning and signature process will now not help teens in need. This is the saddest part, and probably the thing that your daughter needs your (and probably her dad's and brothers') help on. Was the project worth doing? If so, then she shouldn't back away from it. You all need to help her make it go forward medal-be-damned. We have made service-project development so onerous that some kids have lose the vision of what they are trying to do. Of course if she only cared about the bling and not the teens, that's a different story. Week of soul-searching, I'm sure. But walking her through it as the potential to be one of the most rewarding moments of your life!

So in a nutshell, Stop whining about it and do something if you object to it that much........ That's kind of harsh, BD, asking the pro-sodomy folks to not be so, well, what's the word? Oh yes! "Gay" about it.

Thanks A.L., you give us an idea of the opposite extreme. Someone is not being coached. And, frankly, that where the SM needs to come in. Some SPLs need more phone calls than others. Some PLCs need to meet more frequently than others. Now your boys have a say in what's happening. Have they talked to the SM?

Mary and Nikki should have the same right to marry as Mr. CC and I do. Who said anything about marriage? In fact howarthe made the usual specious case in favor of fornication. And it's thinking along those lines that lets our COs keep a lot of their unmarried non-celibate leaders. In fact the language on the application was phrased the way it was for that reason. We are talking about opening the organization to every manner of sodomite except pedophilies (for now). Well, maybe CO's will want the person to be a little less promiscuous than the average sports coach, but that will be their call. The thinking being that some of those forms of affection should be modeled for our boys nationwide. And, let's not belittle the slippery slope arguement. This discussion is about one marginalized class riding on the coattails of the success of a formerly marginalized class. Like Pack said, no absolutes.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

The social morals of our society have changed since 1910. And one fine day, we will stop persecuting boys who bring pornography to camp. I won't be forced to drag an adult female along any time a girl in my crew wants to overnight. And the whole sex segregation thing! Please give us one less tent to haul ... The age segregation! My 21 y.o. co-advisor deserves to have the pick of any youth in my crew. Let's stop the hatin' and tell parents they need to teach their kids how to really live in the 21st century.

BD - nothing worse than a crew member (adult or youth) without her head in the game! The crew president and advisor should be grabbing that lady and doing a few forced marches every evening. If you know this lady and the situation is as bad as you make it out to be, now would be a good time to be as frank with her as you are with us. Hopefully the PSR staff will use good judgement with this one. Suzi, ignore BD. Families can make the core great HA teams! But you all have to get in shape and show a high level of teamwork. Working on fitness together is a great start. Doing hikes as a family is important. Camping vacations become trial runs. You'll find yourself renting a climbing guide instead of going on the old house tour in Bar Harbour. You'll trade in a night at a hotel near Disney to camp with key deer and go snorkeling in the morning. (BTW, make sure everyone has their own camera, because without fail, the reef shark floats by when the family camera is in someone else's hand.) You'll practice letting the kids set the agenda. You all become a patrol and rotate responsibilities. That way by the time your kids decide they want you to tour with the rest of their buddies, you'll have the faith to let them pick their crew chief and you and hubbie just fit in as part of the team.

CDinNJ, I don't want to minimize the grave state of our oversexed culture. But ... The most recent research indicates that sexting is pretty rare. That means vids are not likely to be home grown casually. That also means if they are from someone the boy knows, you've just stumbled across a big problem - abberrant behavior, and will need all the help you can to deal with it. We're not really talking about the boy being in trouble for trafficking. We're talking about a group of kids engaging in high risk behaviors that could result in injury or even death. If you are talking about the boy having mass market stuff (even if it is very vile), this is a situation you can manage. The way you did was fine. Those police reports won't implicate the boy, but sometimes a detective may pick up on a pattern of distribution that has a predator as its source. Down the line it may spare another youth great harm. Electronic devices sure make this stuff easier than ever to access, but we all found plenty enough to rot our minds when we were kids. And SPLs and SMs had The same challenge. It stinks that camp is where this stuff gets dealt with. But if not for you, it may never have been brought up.

Our boys are older and still have the same issues. Sounds like you all are on track. At the end of the weekend, tell the PL if he needs shopping done, to give your son a call next time, and you'll help get him to the store. Have fun.

Our units don't own tents, the youth and their families do. They manage to equip themselves according to the location. Sometimes piling into those big tents are a barrel of fun. Other times, when the wind kicks up and my pup's the only thing standing, not so much fun.

Yes, you have the right to work on venturing awards. Your advisor may not be used to staff wanting to be authentic venturers, but he/she should be thrilled to help you. In the process of working on a bronze award, you may help your fellow staff build a fellowship that extends beyond the summer. And yes, you should find out what other crews meet near where you live and try to join one that may interest you. (You can be a member of multiple crews.) Find out if your council has a venturing officer's association (VOA) and get in touch the VOA advisor or president. Again, because you aren't tied down to a busy crew, you may be able to help out with the council venturing leadership. That'll keep you busy, but when you get a moment, log in and let us know how things work out!