qwazse

BP, I get the need to train council pro's, really I do. But lecturing them on the Venturing oath and code ... what does that get me? Better to use that time they spend in training looking at slides of different oaths and codes to teach them how to get of my kid's backs and give the little gompers some real authority around council from the moment they darken the door of HQ! But that's my adult opinion, so don't count it for much. I'm encouraging our VOA Advisor to put it to the officers and have them formulate their own opinion and pen a brief to the task force.

Backstory: Tom is a Raven's fan. The other characters are always off-screen by the way. It's just dad and his dialogue for every episode! The average yard around here is 50' minus hillside, of which we have lots. So PD has 250' to go. Will he make it? Don't know. I'd love to see a future episode with him at a campfire talking to Tom and their SM about what they are doing letting their boys camp 100 yards across the field. The character also has a teenage daughter with boyfriend drama. I have half a mind to write the producers and tell them about the Venturing program, and suggest a sketch of dad's reaction when she asks him to sign a BSA youth membership application. The other half thinks like jblake: it might be too true to be funny!

UC points out what what I've observed. Most venturers don't have "patch envy". They've never even give it a ought. There was an instance in a neighboring crew where the boys kept insisting that the girls weren't "real" scouts because they couldn't earn eagle. The advisor/SM who told me about this was clearly frustrated by the situation. I witnessed one occasion where a boating director told two girls (certified sailors each) that they couldn't take a sunfish out because they didn't have small boat sailing MB. I suggested to her a paradigm shift. If youth throughout the nation are experiencing "discrimination by rank", then yes, they will want a more uniform advancement program. However I think that's a minority experience, and like my youth, older kids really don't want to be MB'ed to death. They're ready to do a lot of Star-equivalent work, but they want everyone to hold their applause until they finish their "concert."

I get it. Venturing's cool. But it is not huge (as my council president regularly reminds me). Their numbers are also on decline. (Boy Scouts, on the other hand, had a bump this year. http://www.scouting.org/About/FactSheets/YearinReview.aspx) Sure our older youth want to be part of something different. I as a scouter wanted to try something novel. This well crafted program was the perfect offering because it met a need of the youth in my community. But, learning the oath and code was not a big draw for me. It hasn't impressed my youth. Fact is, many of the girls who've joined my crew were thrilled to be considered scouts. Learning the same oath, might just help them sense a little more commonality with the other 90% of the organization. Or maybe not. That's why I'm gonna start asking the youth and maybe get them to submit an opinion to the task force.

CC, quantity is a quality all it's own. So Derrick, are you related to Robert? Are we getting in the middle of a family discussion here? Leadership is a little different in a small troop. For example, most of your merit badge counselors will not be in house. Boys may have to make more contacts outside of their troop to get advancement done. On the flip side, once you're on the trail, a team of 8 can cover a lot of ground. It's a lot easier to make a hike plan for one patrol than for four!

BP is the beneficiary of one of National's greatest program revision, which isn't even 20 years old, yet he doesn't want to be obliged to any revision for future generations. It's like going through the door and slamming it shut behind! That said, I look forward to more youth input. BD's daughter is a bit too young to ask if she'd rather not learn a new set of vows in three years. My kids are indifferent, and I think the rest of the crew will feel the same. BP! What say your youth (not that we don't cherish your well thought opinion and compelling rhetoric) as to adopting e scout oath and law? My one youth who is interested in awards likes the current program -- oodles of awards for every little thing are for her younger sister. She specifically appreciated the multi-part challenge and open-ended nature of the bronze awards.

St. Paul trumps any guidelines: "Let the marriage bed be sacred". But, I think that's the gist of the GSS anyway. And, it would lie at the heart of any discussion of PDA I'd have. Both are 18-20 (in spite of me remembering them entering high school just yesterday), so I figure I'm advising them one adult to another. They still got a lot of maturing to do, and I'd be honored if they chose to sit around my campfire to do it. At least, that's the way it's worked with older youth (from other crews as well as mine). Life happens, they wind up coming to camp, play a few cards with the "youngsters", then pull a chair up beside you to talk about whatever is really on their mind.

BDB, need all e dish, eh? He is still registered, although hasn't been able to participate because his leave schedule did not coincide with our outings. She was never a member of the crew (although she came to a couple of day activities). Her dad wouldn't allow it for fear of what might happen between the two of them in the woods with us. Go figure. I'd have no problem with them tenting together, although I'd warn her that I've been known to applaud from my bunk loudly in response to beautiful performances. Seriously, I would expect these two to want to bunk with their friends from high school for old times sake, but this is the crew's first married couple, and they aren't both signed up, so for now it's all hypothetical for me.

Crows, who you gonna caw?

Camp and hike. Camp and hike. Camp and hike. You have one patrol, so get them skilled to the point that they function independently. (E.g., they plan and execute a day hikes without direct adult supervision, they can camp 100 yards away from you no problem.) No need for an SPL. Your PLC is the PL, ASPL, and any older boy who wants to put his two cents in. In between, have your boys ask the chartered org rep about how they can serve them (clean-up day, parades, memorial service, etc. ...). During one of your town hikes, have your boys visit a local paper -- maybe get their pictures taken in it. Talk to your Legionnaires about their sons and grandsons. Find out if any of them are in the area and of scouting age. Even if they don't have boys of their own, ask if any would like to help on the troop committee or serve as merit badge counselors. (This may require you to occasionally stop at the bar after a meeting to say, "Hello!") At one of their meetings have the your most outgoing boy tell a few stories or share a slide show of what the troop's been doing. (Many of us who are chartered by churches do this on Scout Sunday.) In other words, build from your base. Then branch out.

One of my crew "solved" his boundary issues by eloping with his GF as soon as she turned 18!

Bd, sorry, somewhere between work, sighting the scope on the moon, and bills, the well-crafted witty reply that I penned was lost! Don't sweat the small stuff. Go camping. Have fun. It sounds like you set the right tone. They know you don't want anyone getting hurt or pregnant. At some point you may need to review with the officers if they felt everyone was being friends with each other and not just their main squeezes. Our crew has shied away from putting anything in writing, I think yours will too. By-laws regarding PDA are usually written by 14 y/os who later regret it.

There is nothing wrong with sharing opening ceremonies. That's not the same as visiting the troop. It does mean your den chief will miss his troop meeting, unless he's from a different troop!

Just quized the tiger and bear great nephews who are visiting this week. They have no more problem understanding BS motto, oath, and law than does my average tenderfoot scout. Being preacher's kids, they might have a few compliance issues This age-appropriate business is one of my pet peeves. I find kids much more capable than we give them credit. Like venturing ... I don't see youth having a problem with the oath changing. They would have a problem with the awards and recognition changing. Especially they would have a problem with being placed in ranks. And honestly, it's no more complicated than those stupid belt loops.

There's nothing to say it won't have an impact, but I think a public commitment on their part to serve other youth organizations that require parents to support homosexuals as potential leaders over their youth would be more productive.

I don't think the cupcake GS programs (search the posts of other members to get what I'm talking about) will see a mass exodus to our kind of program until we have adult females who buy into the year-round outdoor program. It's one thing to send little junior into the capable hands of Mr./Mrs. CampinSnow it's another thing to become that person to fulfill that need! Right now I can count on my hand the women in my council who will camp in December snows with only what they hiked in on their backs for a few miles. Intrepid is not what most folks look for in a female leader, but that's what female green bar patrols will need if they are to approach the kind of vision that we push on our boys. At the same time, we need moms or big sisters with that knack for nurturing middle school girls and keeping us guys from hitting the panic button!

'Skip, is the UK policy local option? If an openly homosexual adult was excluded from a unit for that sole reason, would your national leaders support the adult's desire to be part of that unit, or the unit's desire to set it's own membership standard?

Hi CK, I'm a pretty disorganized Advisor, so I can relate to wanting an organized assistant you can trust. I also keep my committee at a distance. I figure the best you can do is ask the charter org rep what he was thinking. The second thing is to understand the troop finances better. Has the committee been too controlling? Have they been obligating the troop to a lot of oversight? For programs that the boys aren't interested in? Have the SM's boys taken all the leadership positions? Finally, pay attention to your boys. If they are having fun and going on outings, all this other stuff will fall by the wayside,

So skeptic, are you suggesting that national should turn YPT guidance over to the CO? Because the bigotry against us (presumably heterosexual) male advisors comes to the fore every time the girls in the crew want us to take them in the big woods overnight. Because of strong prejudices against us, they require us to have a female adult along! It doesn't matter how much the CO trusts me and the other great dads in my unit to treat the ladies like they were our very own daughters. National policies must be followed. Just wait until the media gets a hold of this one ... I did use the gist of the above paragraph in a response today. I let you know if the counter to it is any good.

Oh, about the coed thing ... There will be some families that would like the one-stop-shop. (I certainly did with venturing.) But plenty of other families will do it the way their folks did. The'll shuttle their boys and girls to their respective unisex units. I figure only a steep rise in gas prices may change that equation.

SP, as long as you are above board with the superintendent, they will probably find a way to help you promote that passes legal muster. Our school district allows groups to promote via fliers and such so long as a disclaimer is at the bottom "this activity is not endorsed or supported by the school district." This gives me the latitude to put that our crew is chartered by a local church, which is a real plus for most parents in our community.

If your troop is doing all of the positive things above, then you need to ask yourself "what are Eagles here for?" We just told these boys they are "marked men". That they will be called upon to do unique things in our community and for our country. So, a boy gets his bird, then what is it time for? Junior firefighter, ROTC, EMT? Counselor for the church youth group? A mission needs to deliver medical supplies to a village accessible only by foot? The conservation researcher needs volunteers to help with a year round survey of game lands? The high school sports team is looking for captains with real leadership skills? The start-up troop down the road needs some youth leadership to get rolling? And, your troop could stand to have a 10th ASM/JASM? Based on everything we've taught him, an Eagle will look to serve the greatest need that could use his talents. It's unlikely that he'll stick around and do what a bunch of 1st class scouts are doing well enough on their own.

Note that boy scheduling can be rough. Miscommunicated dates unrealized schedules, unavailable adults are par for the course. The grass isn't greener. Two many years of frustrated schedules, and parents do ask for adults to take charge. Then they realize the boys aren't having enough input and responsibility, and they cycle back.

Wearing a BSA uniform usually means you are attending a BSA activity. If the BSA activity meets the restrictions above than there can be no alcohol present. We're not talking about "usual" here. We're talking about needing to make a call (or replenish a canteen) and the SM needing to show some accountability by avoiding one-on-one contact. Obviously you need to respect any state laws, or bar rules!