qwazse

You raise a good question, sail. Should board of reviews in the venturing program different in any way from BS BORs? I would suspect Quartermaster would necessarily be different because the nature of the award is very specific. Silver is a nebulous entity. Not sure a BOR could be tested. Never gave it much thought because my crew is not there. Also, let's face it, we all come off as having a law unto ourselves sometimes. But any of you who have crews that awarded Silvers, what guidance have you given your committee?

Maybe that's as good a reason as any to encourage a target date for eagle of age 14 or 15. The probability of a boy having every scout skill, symbol meaning, and point of history in his head at the time of BOR is higher. Fact is, a 17 year old boy who forgot WT Boyce's name and knot or two, but is working on understanding his religion and his sense of moral obligation will get a pass from us. (At least at the SMC. We read the riot act and warn him to study chapter 1 of the BSHB before he meets the board.) A twelve year old, on the other hand, we might ask if he wants a do-over, maybe next week. In other words, after going over what he has or has not retained, we'll put it on him and ask if he should make rank not knowing x. Participation? That "invisible boy" had better be able to tell me what good he was doing instead of scouting and why he felt we weren't worth the time of day to call and explain. Why? Because I have a handful of boys in line for Eagle who do just that. Heck, I have soldiers who call me to apologize for not making a crew activity because they got called up for active. So the excuses are few.

Out of state? We don't even transport in state! On the flip side, there's no shortage of dead ash trees.

No BD! Don't ask! You know what will happen. The GTA seems to give units pretty wide lattitude, so actually I think most troops are indeed "by the book". Most boys are by the book. In fact I'm usually trying to get them to chill and not make requirements seem harder than they actually are. If something is confusing, I give my DAC a call. He'll research, and give me a call back. His answers have proven to be solid and when there was a conflict, the calls to national came down in his favor. So I'm taking what lattitude is evident at face value and running with it.

[laughing out loud] I've had parents say nearly just that about me!

Truth be told, I never read the AG. Most of what I know about comes from: 1. Going to roundtables and taking my DAC at his word. 2. The posts on this forum. It's amazing how far you can limp along on the plain English of the BSHB and the Eagle application!

Don't think Romans were into face paint. Took my daughter to a Steelers v. Seahawks game when she was 4. It was all I could to dress casual for a game. Football being near religion in these parts, I was raised to wear suit and tie for Game day. We were told never to dress like a player unless you were willing to play like one. Times change. We were also told to keep the good looking women in the stands with us. Don't parade them around the sidelines. But I think that was just a Pittsburgh thing to explain why we don't have cheerleaders.

Some folks seem to just want to keep the BS in the BSA! LB, no offense, but you sound like an DE used to reporting paper membership to meet the pay-grade. Just as I would never hesitate to confer an elevated rank because of an adult error in record-keeping, I would never encourage an SM to confer an inappropriate rank simply because folks managing the roster were not honest with themselves about purging it annually. The requirement is "show scout spirit." Those of us who did band + youth groups year 'round, or who had a son who lettered in 5 varsity sports + girlfriend + advanced placement classes before making eagle, have a pretty clear vision of what that looks like. Last night, I sat in on an eSMC for a boy who was steeped in other activities, but still took the time to SPL the troop. He didn't have to. There were several other POR's that he held while Life rank. G&C's scout has effectively said "hurry up and give me this bird, never mind that there's no chance you'll see me on any of your stinking outings." If he changes his mind, great. If not do the boy a favor, give him the district advancement chair's digits so the lad can start writing his appeal while the troop is off camping.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

Ya know, it's the closest relationships that are generate the coldest glares. Learn from it as best you can. Make love not war! Ask for your most independent person to be UC of this particular unit. You'll want the CM to have someone who she can be frank with, and who can give guidance to both of you. Not merely be a voice over the Internet.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

How are you punishing a youth by giving them proper recognition of their abilities? IMHO, SP and his SM were finally according this boy his proper rank. That is not a punishment. Making the boy do push-ups for every end-around his parents pulled ... that would be punishment.

COR may replace the CC or any adult leader, but that won't solve your current problem. As concerned parents, the CC and CM may still promote their agenda -- no patch required. Are the boys setting the schedule for the troop, or are you adults doing that? (I mean, it's awesome if the PLC decided that they want to cover a different Eagle required MB every two weeks, but it's rare that boys will do that. It doesn't leave much room for shooting, fishing, or wilderness survival!) Whatever, you have parents who want a different program than what your troop offers. Giving them a chance to go your separate ways could be healthy for the both of you. The question is when to do that? Do the two units wait until a bunch of boys cross over, then deal with divisive parents who are "shaking things up", or do you let Webelos parents know there is a debate about how the adults are working the program and let the different parties make their case? As troop CC you will probably have to call each prospective parent in the Weblos II den and discuss the possibility of their son joining your troop. Listen to their opinions. It might give you an idea of who would like to be in your unit, and who you'd be butting heads with anyway. Hopefully in the long run, the boys who would get the most out of your troops program will be the ones who cross over. Oh, and make sure you have a good understanding of what the SM thinks.

Our council does a haunted trail. Maybe something of the sort would suit your pack and be well within the reach of your den.

Beaver had managed to convict GClose about getting too involved in addressing a boy's advancement issues. Issues that seem to be reveal subtle character flaws in an otherwise fine young man. Beaver's contended that much of that dialog should have been referred to the SM. Now a few months ago I might have nodded my head in agreement, but at the last Eagle CoH that I attended, 5 mentor pins were handed out. The boy had a reason for each. One went to an MC. His reason: "There'd be times that I felt that I could ignore my mom, but Mr. ___ I was scared of him. When he told me something, I listened!" Why he didn't fear us SM's and ASM's, I haven't a clue! But there it is. That MC's authority helped us do our job. So, yeah, y'all need to be letting us SM/ASMs/Advisors have our say with the boys. And if you're getting dragged into the mix, let us know what's happening. But sometimes a boy connects with an adult for reasons more significant than the patch on their sleeve. So figure out if the boy is using you as a go-around, or as a sounding board. If it's the former, set the boy straight. But, if it's the latter, carry-on. We need all the help we can get.

Tell me the scout slogan. What was yours today? All the best for you and the boys!

One step (I think it's a big one): make sure your 18 y.o.s register to vote. "it's time for you to start running my country."

If only I had a dollar for every hour an adult leader spent agonizing .... G&C, I could give you a list of other things to spend loosing sleep about, but I reckon the Mrs. already has one for you. I love your "let's make it happen" attitude, but that implies that both parties hold up their end of the bargain. The boy has until his 18th birthday to show he's holding up his end. SM Chris, let him know you will be happy to hold his eSMC on the night of his third activity. If he wants to push it through without signatures, I'm sure he can take it up with your district AC. For college apps now, he can put "Life Scout". There's no shame in that. When he gets his bird, he can send each admissions rep a postcard announcing the accomplishment and asking to add it to his file. (Same applies for any recognition for any hard work he put in band.)

Call BS on the BS and let the chips fall where they may.

1. Ditch notebooks. 2. Get a big old canvas, some ropes and spars, paint. 3. Help boys make sign that says: Troop ###, no notebooks allowed! 4. Watch membership double. 5. Have fun trying to keep a dozen boys organized.

Eureka teragon 4 served my boys and daughter well for 9 years. I think I'm gonna go through the effort of patching it's most recent rips.

How many youth really make good, thought out decisions about things that may not involve them in a few years without outside input. Actually, most of them ... If they've had to put up with the crap most adults have foisted on them for at least a season of camping!!!! As a practically matter, the SM tells our committee we should spend $ on equipment. Committee checks budget and adjusts fundraising goals accordingly. How the SM interacts with the boys to determine what is needed is between him and the boys. Committee never sees a written list.

IMK, Seabase does have a lot of novel stressors. Not sure if they would be triggers for PTSD. But, I've seen normal kids freak out over: being in 25' of open ocean for the first time, being only able to get 44' away from everyone else, being in a different part of the country with a different culture. Heck our stay in Miami Beach was tough on some who thought English should be the 1st language in their own country! To the OP, every campout I miss nags me to no end!

First of all, thanks for all of your service and hard work! I think you need to work to regain that civil relationship. Explain that your previous efforts were all in good faith, but overeager, to make the district work better for her her families and her boys. Then focus on other packs who would welcome you letting their parents know of district events. If your son wants to invite a buddy from that pack to an event, that's the only parents you should talk to. You could certainly invite every den leader and CC to roundtables, but that's it.

In BSA, the charter org has claim to the unit supplies, including $$s. If the charter org folds????

Our crew held it's court of honor this week, a younger sister (age 10) asked if she could help start he campfire. I replied affirmatively saying "Far be it from me to prevent a little one from lighting a fire."

SN, Not so much nitpicking as highlighting a core difference, as Howe requested. And (regarding the drama) pointing out that things may not be all that different. I think that that is the biggest difference ... a BSA unit leader will opt to regard highly the youth who are desperate for a physical challenge -- especially if they are in a position of responsibility. (To a limit ... the crew president who wanted us to visit a rogue state had that idea swept under a rug!). The troop will either form a venture patrol, or a standing patrol will start planning unique excursions, or the crew will form a sub-committee for an activity that may only attract 4 youth. Especially with our crew, it's rare that everyone on the roster is in the same place at the same time. A GSA unit leader, as you just described, will try to have the girls come to a consensus on an activity that will attract the most youth. The end product? From what I've seen from merging the different cultures into a venturing crew, the BSA bred tend to toss out grand ideas, the GSA bred work to bring everybody on board and pay real close attention to someone feeling left out.