qwazse

I don't think it is "misogyny" to support male leaders for boys and female leaders for girls. True, Pere. But it isn't scouting. In his speech, BP was explicitly encouraging male and female scoutmasters (not committee members, not assistants) for "these young lads" (not lasses). It became obvious fairly early on, that the best leader available for a group of boys may be female. BP said nothing that would give anyone an excuse to stand her way. It's not clear that he would be bothered by young men and women sharing the same scouting unit in this day and age.

Yep, sinking tide grounds all boats ... The trick in scouting is figuring out what resources you do have, and leveraging them to the hilt.

T, I grew up a townie in farming/mining county. Advantages: Excellent campsites a walk out the back door. None our troop used were more than 40 minutes away. Webelos DL taught you how to shoot his 38 special. We all knew gun safety since most of the cubs had already been taught shotgun or rifle by our dads or brothers. Council HQ was a special road trip that SM would take as rarely as possible. (I guess folks who didn't like being a backwater saw that as a disadvantage.) Shooting sports? Practice in your back yard. Fire starting practice weekly on trash burn day. The main disadvantage was the scout shop in our town wasn't viable. We wound up having to drive a ways to get uniforms, sleeping bags, etc ....

those go out for coffee kind of conversations and I certainly dont take sides, but instead try to listen to both sides. But when you get to that level of conversation, those parents usually don't just jump up and agree. In this case, I prefer the get-yourself-invited-for-dinner kind of conversations. In my consulting business, I charge more if I'm more likely to be ignored.

But Beav, There'll be lots of new paddle boards and ATV's!

Hope it works out for everyone involved. It's not that parents' opinions don't matter, but we always have to keep in mind what empowers our kids. At one point in his soccer career Son #1 was not happy about the time he spent on the varsity bench. I kinda agreed, and I know the coach would have been happy to hear from me about it. But, I told the boy to have a conversation with the coach about what he would have to improve in order to be called off the bench sooner.

We had an end-of-summer campfire COH last month. I shared my beading with a young lady who earned our crew's first bronze award. I had her make a binder of her work so we would both have something for folks to look through. Not a big crowd, but just the right balance of youth and adults. (And my stash of chocolate and marshmallows got ate down!)

Our district is about 80% suburban. Our troop, although meeting in a "country church" is full of families who I nickname "North Side Refugees". They have some of the best growing up stories (including visiting their classmates in the State Penitentiary). Urban scouts have a wider variety of service projects. For example, my crew hosts a flag placement evening in a very large cemetery that includes otherwise neglected Grand Army of the Republic markers. It brings units from all over the district together in a part of town that they normally avoid. One SM from the suburbs was taken aback by the sheer history of the place. On the flip side, there seems to be a disparity in camping opportunities. Some urban boys are attracted to our suburban troop because we get out more. I'm drinking my coffee right now where an urban youth ministry is trying to start a troop. They are two blocks away from our SPL, but I'm pretty sure I won't have to worry about them recruiting him. Boy-led gangs aren't very well favored around here.

That's funny. Amish don't use zippers. Didn't you ever watch The Witness?

Frank, No offence, but being stuck in that cabin with y'all is a bit more than this scouter can handle most weekends. Slightly more than twenty years ago, my mom put two and two together one snowy night as I was packing for camp and said, "You're not going to sleep in that snow are you?" I replied, "Well, yeah. Just like I did last year and the year before." The freak factor hasn't changed.

Thanks 'Skip, 1. I think I will share this with my crew. 2. You post older and wiser than you look! 3. Love the falconry!

The Pacific Crest Trail? Sounds fun. But you'll likely need a longer range plan. It's a rare group of sixth graders who are fit for such an adventure. And usually, you need monthly hiking weekends about eight months in advance so your team gets conditioned to the concept, the terrain, their limitations, their gear. (Doesn't matter how light it is, you still gotta be real comfortable using it.) Usually 8th graders start to be able to get their heads around that kind of challenge -- thus the age range of BSA's venturing program. Of course if they haven't kicked each other legless on the soccer field, they'd be physically fit ... But that's only part of the equation.

Soccer will gut a weekend schedule. I'm not one for Sunday sports, but was so thankful when my kids grew into the Sunday leagues. (It left Friday and Saturday's free to camp.) The boys in Son #1's den were the same way. Skit after skit after skit! Even after they were in their tents. We could count on him coming home Sunday and wanting to do nothing but shower and sleep. Anyway, if your daughter is coming home whipped after every outing, that could be a reason why she's not keen on doing too many. Sleep hygiene is a serious challenge at this age. For some reason, folks frown on 10 year olds and matches. You'll probably hear some such advice in training. We cut son #2 some slack at that age one summer because he and his buddy had cleared a perfect fire ring, made a small teepee, with tinder in the middle, larger logs at the ready to the side. They asked if they could light it, and his buddy's dad and I gave them some slack and handed them the matches -- no doubt violating the letter of some camp rule in the process. But there has to be a greater law out there about honoring flawless execution. Anyway, fire starting is best practiced at meetings in a nearby campfire ring. With 8 kids, it takes a lot of teamwork to let only one of them light the match. And that applies to my venturers at times! My co-advisor (also a GS mom) always let her girls build fires. Never had a problem with young women being able to accomplish this on their own. I'll gather wood, but I personally only bother to light the fire anymore when everyone else gives up: e.g. rained all day, temps dropped, or discord has wrought failure and the risk of hypothermia is high. (BTW, in many 3rd world countries, fire starting is women's work.) I would jump at the chance to hike 5 days straight with my crew or troop. (Doing that on a hike across my county with my SM and two other boys at age 18 was one of those formative experiences.) But beyond summer camp my youth only seem to make time in their schedule if it's an expensive high adventure week. I know other guys manage to schedule weeks away with their units. [envy] Anyway, sounds like you have a decent plan that can flex with the girls' interest as they grow. Have fun!

Howe, let me rephrase. I have the dubious privilege of dealing with young women whose troops did not camp frequently between ages 11 and 13. They resent it vocally, and we need to encourage them to tone down the anti-GSUSA rhetoric. Only because they couldn't get "ALL" their fellow scouts on the camping train. If you want to produce more of those girls, let them settle for a campout a year.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

RK, you are right in waiting until you can get nearly all the boys in the same room. And I can certainly relate to the autumn disruptions. This is a decision that can wait. Keep in mind that in waiting to long, boys might realize that they can do things differently anyway.

That's crazy y'all! Our pros make copies at hq for RTs. Not sure what budget it comes from. Don't know how much of RT comes out of pocket. Although, I did have a commish once reproduce a slide presentation he asked me to do in full color hard copies. I felt bad because it really was a lot of ink for little content. But the material was all new to him and he was excited about it.

Fine. I'll just talk to the hand Hand, what is a reasonable number of outdoor overnight activities that should be offered to the average group of 10 year olds? [Hand raises four fingers.] Does that include some kind of week long summer camp. [Hand puts thumb up.] Should I tell someone to lower their bar if one girl says one overnight/year is enough? OUch! [Hand slaps.] Get the training you all need. Take the girls camping once. Have fun. Go the next time they ask.

BD, in that situation, I'd suggest: Work it out with the boy(s) who want to be den chiefs. Play nice. This may mean the den chief's figure out a rotation, or their PLs touch base after meeting. It sounds like one of the better headaches to have.

The boys have spoken. Dude, you have to do something out of doors that first or second weekend in October even if it's a day hike around town with a stop at the nearest soda fountain. This month, have the boys read each other the safe hiking chapters from the book. Call your game officer or agricultural agent. They might be able to give the boys some idea of how to find wildlife, and when/how to hike safely during hunting season. Campfire can be in someone's back yard barbecue. (That's assuming your away from the burn ban.) Do you all have leaves to rake yet? Maybe there's a town square or some elderly veteran's lawn that needs some TLC.

I dunno. Most hunter camps I see advertised have lodgings with four walls and a roof. But, a definition that would apply to 11 year olds should fall within Pack's parameters.

One patrol. Boys elect their leaders - who may or may not be the trained youth. Or two small patrols. Boys elect their leaders as above. Leave the choice up to the boys. Provide basic training for whoever is elected (maybe the NYLT boys could do this). Don't elect an SPL/ASPL until you have about 24 boys. Never appoint SPLs. You have other things to worry about.

Never saw a troop who capped at 32.

Those are our future venturers, so what we think does matter. Many Webelo I's do not camp all that much. But, for that age, IMHO, you should have a tent weekend in the fall and spring, get a cabin someplace in the winter, and attend a week long GSUSA summer camp. Your daughter might be overwhelmed by the numbers. To see if she's right, you need to work with her to see how much free time she has throuout the year. Don't rule out the possibility at you are running her ragged with too many activities. But most likely she will see that this this is just a drop in the bucket. Plus, it amounts to more time with her friends. The opinions of other girls and the availability of adults fit into the equation as well. Like SN said, get trained.

Not quite sure what your aiming at, but crews often use this: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/venturing/pdf/510-013WB.pdf

Tickets don't get worked in a vacuum. There's no way of avoiding preconceived notions -- even without the Internet to bounce ideas off of!