qwazse

Internet attaboy! So what's next? Venturing silver? Hornaday?

Was this a trivia question? Or do you have a situation?

Ya know what's funny? We both said "rich kid's dad" instead of "rich dad"! Whatever you failed to describe to us, in that phrase you conveyed an sense of impoverishment not offset by $$'s in the bank! Anyway, this kid and his mates seem to be worth keeping to you. Hopefully, he'll appreciate it as you ask a little more of him. I look forward to hearing how it plays out.

We use boxes for camp within 200 yards of the trailer. They are stand alone with nooks for legs, a fold-up two-burner stove, a patrol mess kit, utensils, a small propane lantern, wash bins, towels, and soap/spices. They open on the two largest faces, so you get substantial work space. What I don't like is the screw-less leg system requires extra space/weight on the sides of the box for tight holes into which the legs slide. They slide in at an angle so the box stands low. (Fine for younger scouts. For older scouts not so much.) We have a hodge-podge of gear to outfit backpacking. We also have round plastic tubs. Not used as much.

Sounds like we got three potential stories: 1. The glass is 1/10 empty. 2. The glass is 9/10 full. 3. Hey, there's a glass!

Those 13 year olds ... First of all, friendships are a good thing. But somehow you have to get it into their heads that for friendships to last, they are going to have to nurture them. The patrol method is for just that. Really, you should not have let a do-nothing PL go for 3 months. But now, right now, you should ask those boys to seriously think if one of them could do a better job. Tell the PL that it was just the wrong position for him, and you're suggesting a break until he is ready to start giving back to scouting. I honestly think you've got plenty of ideas from everyone here. Don't got a clear idea of the rich kid's dad. Is he trying to do the right thing, or does he not have a clue? Anyway, if there's a chance your parents' are capable of "getting a clue." Get them in the same room and let them know you want to raise the bar for these boys, but you also have 50 others who deserve your time and respect.

Dean, I think your boy gave the best possible answer given the situation. As he gets older, he'll get better with the delivery. Frank and 2c, I've had both results. Some people make a comment hoping their 5 second protest will shake you to the core and they'll never want to talk to you again. Others are actually reaching out in a bizarre sort of way and will buy your coffee trying to figure out how to see things your way.

Geez,224, Next thing you're going to "no big deal" that my 21 y.o. male co-advisor and I can't take the ladies in my crew camping without a female adult. Thanks for lacking the love, man.

OGE, I don't see it as an abuse of trust. But from what I see middle-school kids dealing with, this is small potatoes. Some people have always had issues with scouts. When I was a kid, it was the whole anti-military sentiment. Other folks simply saw us as pretentious. Unlike a snipe hunt, which is a contrived situation, this is real life. If you put on the uniform, it will likely offend someone for reasons no fault of your own. We might think that an adult present would solve the problem, but that's not entirely true. Sometimes adults make things worse, using the power they have (e.g. my snarky response, Federal's taking notes for authorities) to push the boy aside and fan a few flames. Although he might not feel that way now, Dean is in the best possible situation. His boy met some opposition and later talked to him about it. That brought up two opportunities. The first was to discuss real issues about real people. (Middle school is when many boys begin to dealing with this stuff in more than fits and giggles.) The second, was to teach the boy a little courtesy in the face of discouraging remarks. It wouldn't be the first time a youth just being a youth changed someone's opinion of the program. Now, obviously, if DeanRx jr. doesn't ever want to knock on a door again because the neighborhood is full of meanies, we've gone too far.

It's called isolating the problem. Ask the boys what they think would make the troop run better. Ask them if patrols should be reconfigured. A patrol of four isn't unheard of, but even if it's those 4 and a couple other boys, it would change the dynamic. However, these boys might be smart enough to realize if it's all them, then it's all *on* them. Either way you're getting the message across. Put a priority on activities that are really challenging to them. Picking fights doesn't help get you 35 miles down river, or 10 miles up the trail! The boy who is PL, tell him he's not taking care of his boys. Give him four weeks to pull it together. If he's not up to snuff, ask for the patch back. No leadership, no advancement, no problem. If the uniform thing is a disappointment to you, briefly, but as courteously as possible let each boy know about it. But realistically, work on one issue at a time. Uniforming comes after pitching in to help their patrol. Also, be prepared to listen. There may be something going on outside of scouts that's driving these boys. Maybe their grades aren't all that great and the other scouts tease them about it. Maybe it's the other way around. Try to help them figure out life so they can get more out of scouting. Good luck.

I'd like to interject two things about 11 year old boys ... They are at the right age to start selling popcorn with a buddy. No adult required. They should give folks a specific plan of where they are going, when they'll be home, and so on. But they should be able to tackle this on their own if they try. They are at the right age to learn that some people have philosophical differences with the movement they represent. After all, they are about to invest seven years with it. They'd might as well get some understanding of the statement they are making. So, as much as I hate sales etc ..., this kind of intersection with the public tends be more character building than demoralizing. Don't be mad at folks who somehow have forgotten that a pre-teen doesn't deserve snarkiness. Be glad your boy has a chance to really work that courteous muscle!

So G, Is the question one of how much detail you put in your itinerary so as to avoid a phone call from the SE and the transfer of a parent? I'd put a little more than that SM did! Specifically, I would say "Mr. __ will be bringing his gear and if the opportunity avails itself, will set up a climb/rappel." Even then, after the event I'm sure I'd hear from one parent in fifty that they had no idea that we'd be dangling junior from a harness off a cliff.

I'd be slow to teach my boy that these folks are idiots. They want to make a statement. In a sense they are trying to "convert" the young lad ... to save him from something dangerous. Just because DR took it as "mean spirited" doesn't mean they intended it that way. Even if it were loud and obnoxious (the soapbox speech types), they are merely imitating the tone of their "coaches" ... the usual talking heads who routinely wash our brains thanks to cable, etc ... Give the boy an opportunity to be friendly, cheerful, and courteous. To show that he is learning civil discourse. That alone may help that person to see that we're not teaching our boys to throw stones at the slightest hint of aberrant sexual proclivity. I don't think we want our boys to grow up taking down names of everyone whose speech they don't like! Obviously, if the person is violent -- the precursor of an embassy protester in -- then you've got a different problem.

"I, too, sir/madame look forward to the day when I can take your daughters/granddaughters into the woods for nights on end without any prejudice towards my sexual orientation. But until then, would you like some popcorn?" I double-dog dare you to teach him that line ... it might not result in more sells ... but the boy will be on the fast-track for PL/SPL the next round of elections! Regarding the conversation in the car-ride. Please understand how fleeting those opportunities are. Even if your son grows up to disagree with you, he'll cherish the chance he had to talk to you about it.

I'm actually more concerned about bouldering, because my experience (as a young adult, not with scouts) was that it was very easy to boulder along gearless until your feet were dangling above a 30 ft. chasm. On most hikes we take our boys around here, the distinction between bouldering and free climbing is a foot/arm hold to the right or left. IMHO climbing harnessed, helmeted, and belayed is much safer than boldering padded. But, I have no stats to back it up. But, yes, failure to communicate the extent of an activity is a disservice to the parents. If you are in a position to help this SM, it would be a good idea to let him know that a breakdown in communication occurred. That will give him/her a chance to apologize and try to do better in the future.

There are advantages to working though camping MB as a group. Emphasis on *working*. E.g., each boy get assigned a calendar month to plan an outing for his patrol. Boys tally each other's camping nights, making sure that everything is counted fair and square. Boys discuss tough questions like "Is cabin really camping?" or "Tent or tarp?" In other words, learn as a class, demonstrate as individuals. It is fair to ask the MBC for the course to hold to the requirements. It is fair for your son to raise the bar for himself and the patrol. As long you're not overachieving, you're in safe territory.

Our troop does not collect dues from crossovers. Only the $1 transfer fee. If they stick around, they'll be paying for 7 full years, even the one when they turn 18. We get that they've probably payed a full share to the pack. We want them to be investing in equipment and camp deposits. Chances are they won't be earning lots of bling that first year, so waiting until November to collect dues from them doesn't set us back much at all.

Bringing it back on course, these various economic and political situations impact the availability of den chiefs. When I was a scout, my parents had more free time as Dad was nearing retirement. He or mom could get me across town to where a den needed a den chief. Or, we had two cars and I was old enough to drive there. (Honestly can't remember which.) I'm pretty sure the pack I was DCing for was not the one associated with our troop's CO. My SM would never put it this way, but he was not about to be bothered by the burrs up anyone's butt. So if a Cubmaster came to me asking for a den chief, I would get the word out to my best venturers to see if any of them could spare the time. I know one young lady who would be ideal for the job .... The thought of recruiting those lil' buggers for my crew would be the last thing on my mind. I've seen the best laid plans fall through too often. In your case Tim, I would start calling around to every troop and crew, starting with the nearest and working your way out to a twenty minute drive away. You might need to visit a meeting and personally make your need known to the scouts/venturers. You should definitely make your need known to your sister troop, but keep an open mind. Round here, if there is a "slippery slope" every one gets out sleds or puts on skis!

I feel your pain. I need a crew nag!

I'm sorry, I thought it was you who complained that BPSA should care about what the good founder wanted. He wanted women to step up to the position of SM. Did he realize that co-Ed units would eventually follow? Anyway BPSA is a protest to BSA's catholicism. Just like the religious movements the one claims to be pushing a greater reformation toward its origins, while he other is vying for universal acceptance (at least by what it perceives to be its base).

Troop: Committee Chair. Crew: Advisor with help of CC. We try to get a couple of folks to review the charter before handing of to IH. We also try to get rolling a couple of parent meeting cycles before deadline, so if an issue comes up we can bring it before the committee. (Already had a general discussion of how to handle some issues at this month's troop committee meeting.)

Posts need to recruit young vets. You may want to ask your DE if anybody keeps track of scouts/venturers returning from their tours. You get where I'm going with this. You can offer your your IH a list of warm contacts who he can call with the line "one of the things our post does is support a troop, maybe if you pay is a visit on a scout night, I'll introduce you to them." He would be doing you a favor by giving the boys some adults to talk to about military life, you would be doing him a favor by bringing some vets through the door.

Yep, your swimming upstream. But if you want to hear from COs and get some idea how scouting is working for them, that's as good a way as any. If you're thinking that you'd get good volunteers for committees, brace yourself for disappointment. For example, our COR is not a nuts-and-bolts guy. He just wants to make sure the church and the pack/troop/crew are working well together. When we did have an involved COR, he ran afoul of the SM at the time. His hanging around district folks only helped sew further mistrust. Dysfunction? Yep. One more disincentive for a COR to bother with district stuff? Yep.

I've received lots like the above, so it took me a while to remember one that makes especially proud ... Occasionally on a troop/crew swim, I'll here a couple of boys say "Let's dunk Mr. Q!" It's nice to know they think I'm still worth the effort.

Who's paying for the materials? If the CO is willing to accept the bump in cost, it might be worth doing. The IH may have seen a number of functions in the old pavilion when the crowd was at or over capacity. Sometimes the problem with Eagle advisors is that it puts a layer of bureaucracy between the boy and the beneficiary. We have been very fortunate in that our IH has been willing to work closely with the boys to support them when their project was at the CO. Get the scout at the table with the IH and see if they can set a reasonable goal for making this work.