qwazse

Don't totally write off council. They may be able to negotiate a fixed price which will at least ease your paperwork burden. If nobody makes profit, but bunches of boys have fun, it's a win either way, right?

Thanks E. balanced reporting is hard to find. and thanks E732 for the summary of Degenres' show. Saves me watching. So are true friends in the Internet, pity the mom. If th SM and CC were trying to break the tradition of hazing, I can see how this kind of project would get pushed forward. I can also see how two adults in a go-your-own-way troop like this might be naive enough to think they could shelter their boys from a national firestorm. I've explained to boys that they might not make rank for less controversial reasons, and they all still went forward with their projects. If the SM knew about the issues, maybe he could have done something similar. It might still cause the same firestorm, but everyone would be better prepared for it.

I'll fill in late teen a little more (applies to both sexes): Sets own unique (and sometimes unobtainable) goals. Takes religion seriously (either being for or against it or decidedly neutral). Takes political stances. Knows more than the rest of us! Holds down a job, or dives into academics, or otherwise takes responsibility of family.

E732, I do give it to my crew officers to complete. It is a good reflection tool. Haven't looked at the troop version in detail, but I'm sure a PLC of older boys could work with it. A younger group might think it's a "to do" list or maybe a test or just another trick to get them to sell more popcorn. They would need your guidance to keep it from overwhelming them.

We still have a long way to go. Our boys strongly dislike separating into patrols. I pointed out to them that we were "stretching" the regulations by keeping in 12 person group in a wilderness area. (I told the two smallest boys that they counted as 1, so by weight we were just 1 over e limit.) They can expect to make individual hike plans adjusted for the age of the boys.

I like raising youth. It's fun. People that would rather not be doing it treat me like some kinda saint, so it caters to my ego. Being able to use that as an excuse to get out regularly is just gravy.

It's what a troop or crew that could care less about JTE does for a weekend every month or so. Seriously, if you're wasting time splitting hairs over the definition (or how someone else is using it) give it to a youth in your unit to fill out for you.

You forgot the part about throwing him out, qwazse. You know, the men and women of good character throwing him out for not belonging. You forgot that part. Didn't forget. Just counted it gain. I also did not call the "decade completing requirements" phrase a flagrant lie. I accept that well-meaning folks may use hyperbole to make a point, or they may treat cub-scouts (which has nothing to do with Eagle requirements) as part of the trail. The boy may have been "led on" by his SM, but what is more important: getting a badge under some delusion that we are one big happy family, or doing good work according to your conscience in a broken world?

OK, y'all know our troop tries to put it's best foot forward but is a bit dysfunctional regarding patrol method. One practical issue is interaction of physical and psychological distance. 300' in these parts could put adults a ravine or a ridge-top away from the boys. Well, after a rough day of hiking in Dolly Sods, WV, we came upon an open meadow beside a small brook. After filling their water bottles, the 8 boys gravitated to the center of it and began set-up. I managed to guide our 4 adults to the far corner to pitch out tents. This was a big step for our SM. But once we settled in, we could enjoy watching the boys frolic through the tall grass, and on occasion they would stop by and chat. I visited their camp at the end of the evening, and everything was in decent order. The SPL was pointing out constellations and the Milky Way to the boys who were still awake. It was a truly pleasant experience.

ASM, sounds like your adult was over-officious. That may be his personality, or he may have had to endure enough nit-picking from scouting zealots in his life that it became easier to use the shirt off vs. on as a symbol of 'neighborly' vs. 'BSA/YPT/PTA-ish'. There was no need for it. Either the boy was safe with him or he wasn't. And your leader was at the same risk of accusation with or without the shirt if the boy was up to no good. Gsd, I just drove two venturers home from an outing. After I dropped the closest one at his house, there was 15 minutes of 1-on-1. It was a good opportunity to talk about college, girlfriend, religion, family. So, definitely get your daughter's friends in that car with you. Those conversations are worth the gas money.

Ready, set, don't go until you see the whites of their eyes!

Don't know if the Rubicon forks so you can actually cross it twice going the same direction, but ... He was surrounded by men and women of good character, who didn't belittle him for his stance, and helped him to have lots of fun while he figured out what he really believed. The kid got to complete a project that he will be proud of as long as it stays on that wall. He can tell his kids that when push came to shove, he was honest with his values. Scouting helped him reflect on important matters. None of those are detrimental. Chalk it up to a success. "worked for nearly 12 years to become and Eagle Scout" -- Pity ... now even cubs is no longer about fun. It's all about the bird.

Folks, "local option" is a myth. Here's how it will play out: - policy is removed - leader of unit 666 in CO X identifies as non-heterosexual - COR or IH attempts to remove him/her on principle - co-leaders (in the same unit or outside) rally to his/her side citing BSA's newly minted open sexual orientation policy - Council staff tries to explain COR's prerogative to concerned leaders, but the person in question has very strong ties to 666 - leaders appeal to the courts or press (whoever listens) "Discrimnation continues in BSA" - blogs and chat rooms copy headline ... it's pointed out that other scout assossiations (e.g. UK have) no such option. - pressure on National to impose "non-discrimination" on every level. Like it or not, progressives and reactionaries, we're all in this together.

fun for boys ... [vs] ... teaching or even demonstrating Scouting skills I think that's where we find a clash in philosophy. Some people see those as opposites, others synonymous. For some boys, the "building from scratch" is part of the adventure. But you're probably right. The boys who think "I've already roughed it 12 nights this years" is less likely to buy in to this Jambo's marketing than the boys who think "I've only roughed it 12 nights this year."

Requirements are signed off on an individual basis, but that doesn't mean they are "done" as individuals. I stole jblake's line and used it on our PL's: "Take care of your boys." As far as the requirements are concerned, our PLs are given the T2FC grid from troopmaster on their boys. They are to set their agenda based on the requirements most boys need/want to work on for their next rank. Now that we have most of our boys at 1st Class, they decide what MB's they might want instruction on. We might invite a counselor to a meeting so he can give his contact info to the boys and arrange more follow-up. FWIW, honor patrol is not on our boys' radar. My woodbadge buddy reorganized his troops COHs so that the SPL calls the boys up by patrols, and awards are given to the boys by rank in each patrol.

BD, maybe HC's parents aren't soliciting $$$ on FB to pay their mortgage so they can still take the family to Disney. Best think of Jambo as the boy's first national convention/trade show. It's also an opportunity for your boys to work under a different SM. The "primitive" conditions (I.e., more patrol cooking) was a plus in my book. For some folks, getting in on the ground floor is a big deal. Our troop always takes the first week of summer camp b/c one of the ASMs likes to be available for National Inspection. Besides, if nobody was first or last there would be no camp. (Kahuna, I'll send you our fee for prepping staff for your week.) Although I made a good faith effort to promote it, I can understand why a youth-run crew or troop might not do it. I'm pretty sure my officers thought the discussion was a waste of time from the get-go. I took meeting time to present it anyway because I had just spent a year taking calls from all over the country to fill spots on our Seabase contingent, and the folks who brought it up with their units made our trip a success. The advisor for our council contingent to Jambo deserved at least that from me. That said, if all your boys are reading Boy's Life, they know about Jambo already.

Fixing the problem would take a certain level of awareness on his part. Has the guy done Woodbadge? If so, then he should know about self-assessment. It might be time for him to have one. I try to get my youth and committee to evaluate me in my role as Advisor every few years. I used to think I'd do this every year, but i found that it took quite a long time to change even the simplest things. I'm not saying you need to help this guy straighten out. I'm just pointing out the thing that I've found to be most effective. Like BD implies, sometimes the best favor you can do him is transfer your boy to another unit.

I think your guy is in the "I yam what I yam" stage. I've seen it, caught it, and dished it out too. Completing a swimming partial is a hassle. Took son #2 four years. Your, video should have been between your boy, you, and a merit badge counselor. SM should have only been shown completed signatures. Multiply your video by 10 other "requests for sign-offs" and the guy is probably posting a thread about *helicopter parent ASMs* to blow off steam. (Not saying it's not his fault. He may be a generally accommodating guy and generous with cookies ... until that one extra mouse!) And moving scouts anywhere? There's a reason for venturing and venture patrols. Bottom line: do the boys know he thinks the world of them? Your answer to that will determine if he needs help or if you all need thicker skins.

Best tools are human resources. Go to roundtables, get your SM and CC there. Meet up with other scouters, and try to share one or two activities with a different troop. Give the PLCs of different troops a chance to have a craker barrel. Organizationally, a council calendar, a school calendar (if most of your boys go to the same school), and your CO's calendar are beneficial for all three. You don't need a copy for each member, but there's gotta be a time and place where you all sit and fill in key dates. Anyway, how you handle at is up to you. A phone list of all adult volunteers in the troop is essential. A list of council camps and favorite spots is helpful. Yes, there are handbooks for every position. They work if folks read them!

Can't judge the SM by the church he pastors. Hopefully he will talk to you about it. If I were him, I'd send more of my boys to you. Except for that sidebar with mom. I would expect the boy to be able to handle anything you'd have to say to the mom. But this is why I will not write a note for anything for a boy until he talks to a counselor. For example, camping nights: a counselor may just ask a boy to list his activities until he comes up with 21 - no troop master, or signature required. I save time, the boy gets a chance to reflect. The MBC earns props in my book. If MBC sakes for verification, I'll do my best to put the paperwork together for the boy.

Modesty among venturers ... it's a thread in itself, but ... The Baltimore Ravens Cheerleaders performed at last Jambo. So that ship of discretion has already sailed!

Our crew's screwed.

2c and 2morrow, Of course it wasn't persecution! Please take the hyperbole in a light-hearted spirit. All I'm trying to do is make practical use of that negativity. We have folks on the fence about going, and a list of cons would help. But rather than interrupting every thread that talks about transportation and the like, y'all can ask me to core dump here. Seems to be working,

Here's to a good working relationship with the CC. Since the poor guy got himself "stuck in the middle", take advantage of it. I would have him tell the anonymous parents a couple of things: 1. You're grateful that they voiced a concerned. 2. You were discouraged that you made this process so intimidating that they were afraid to talk to you directly, or if they did talk to you, they felt shut out without you realizing it. 3. If the boy can tell you he's having trouble with your expectations for requirement x, you'll help him figure out if you're being fair or if he has a better idea. 4. If there's a way to adjust to his limitations, you will. But (and I've seen this happen a lot) many boys would rather try and do the requirement as it's put to them -- even if they have a disability that makes it nearly impossible to do that way. Giving the boy a week or two to improve his work can sometimes surprise parents, SM, counselor! Part keeping the CC as the go-between is to maintain his relationship with the parents while also supporting you. Part of this is to encourage the boy to keep working with you. And part of it is to train the CC in MB counseling so that when you free up those hours for the Mrs., he can take up your slack!

So lots of us or our boys (or young women venturers) have passed up the chance to go to this Jamboree. Clearly we have our reasons, but then get persecuted for stating them: If you don't want to go because you are sure that you preconceived negative notions are correct, or for whatever reason, there is not need to insult it. Let's put aside any idea that conventions are impervious to insults and usually don't need defending. (The good people of Goshen proved that's not always the case.) I think there is a need to lay out why someone passionate about scouting would not do Jambo. I went to Jambo in then 80s and had a blast. I had attended other youth conferences, and in terms of sheer numbers this was the largest. It was my introduction to two of my hobbies (satellite imaging and minimum impact camping). I brought back plenty of swag, and would show it to my kids from time to time. Result: none were interested in Jamboree. The simple issue: for the time and money they could be at Seabase or touring Italy or they could afford a couple of soccer camps. Of the venturers who did go to Jambo this last time, two could not afford our trip to the Bahamas. Those who did go to the Bahamas and could have probably socked away the $ for this Jambo, went on a trip to Europe instead. Or, it's time to save for college. So if I pull off a trip this year, it will require a shoe string budget. On the bright side, there will be plenty of summits that won't be swarming with thousands of youth!!! And I think a lot of my crew are after small, intimate gatherings. Jamboree is like theater, nice work if you can get it ...