qwazse

I've had numerous boys complain to me about their "terrible" SPL at month 1, only to have nothing but praise for the guy at month 6. Dashed expectations are par for the course. So are pleasant surprises.

We made NPR! Big leagues!

Tenting is a non-issue. Generally, youth want to be with their buddies on venturing outings. The way this young man is making his request it's clear that sleeping arrangements are no matter. This is a matter of "status". These kids are worried about being crew members as adult+youth while engaged. They want to be continuously members in good standing with the BSA.

Thanks for the summary. Although I'm not as strident as f8033, I also am not as casual as your SM was. I think this was a good call on the SE's part.

SMBradley, FYI, if you type "Fratenization Policy" in the search box on this page, it will bring up some older threads on this matter. Not sure how much any of those will help your decision more than what's been posted here, but give them a read just in case. IMHO preparing for marriage is not the same thing as "peer-based social relationships". (Even Facebook makes the distinction!) I can see a lot of benefits engaged to couples being under the magnifying glass of the crew. E.g., how does he perform as a leader in relationship to his fiance? Is the same kind of leadership expected in his marriage? How does her life in the crew inform on what she's bringing to the marriage? For some advisors, all of that may be an agrument for asking the older of the couple to sit out until they're both adults, for others it may be precisely why they took up Venturing in the first place. Anyway, since positions on camp staff will come into play here, I'd call your SE and ask how to best support the both of them. I'm pretty sure the answer will be, "Don't be ridiculous, keep them both registered. Give the boy an adult app for his birthday."

E732, My CO is a Presbyterian Church. Presbyterian ministers were players in the whiskey rebellion. Consumption of hard liquor is a grand tradition (although the Women's Temperance Union did manage to, well, temper it.) Smoking, well, tobacco made this country what it is. So, unless the boy insists on inhaling Cuban cigars, it is sort of duty to country. If he doesn't believe in God, how can he do his duty to it? I would encourage the boy to stop the charade. Or, get serious with his maker because all of that drinking and smoking is doing nothing to forestall an encounter with Him. I wouldn't sign. I would ask him to think sincerely about what's being put before him, and have him come back in a month so we can continue the discussion. Even if he decides scouting's not for him I'd enjoy keeping in touch with the lad.

If a young married woman wants to be treated as an adult, she can join the ladies quilting club or whatever. If she wants to top rope with her single buddies and maybe wrap up her silver award on the weekends, I'm treating her as a youth. Meanwhile if her husband wants to help me get some high schoolers on the right track for planning a trip, I'm using him. He'll either be my coadvisor or (if my SE yanks my chain) my consultant - no paperwork necessary. Marriage is not the same thing as a guy culling the crew for dates on the weekend. I'm not messing with holy institutions. Not ever.

Venturers who are less connected with our troop have less trouble with the venturing oath, but value oaths in general a lot less. Not sure if this policy will change that. We're still blending cultures that have developed on different trajectories for 13 years of the youths' life.

Great, if you get a chance to talk the "Eagle or don't drive" dads off that ledge, you would be doing yourself a favor. Point out to the dads that a boy who can drive to his MBC is an asset, and that you'll let the dads know if their boy is showing responsibility consistent with someone you'd trust behind a wheel. Putting fellowship first over rank advancement will enable you to have both! Encourage the boys to pick MBs that suit their interest rather than get them to that next oval patch faster.

We really try not to make a distinction between new parent vs. seasoned parent jobs. Maybe we're just not that organized. A new dad might be just a few hoops away from certified range instructor, so guess who's getting paperwork for MBC for rifle and shotgun shooting. One of our dads is pretty sharp when it comes to marketing: he got our recruiting drive. I came in with a firm belief in forced marches in bear country: our troop suddenly had a backpacking coordinator. As I learned about youth leadership, I passed on a lot of what I did in year 1 to the SPL or JASM in year 2. We do try to get new parents to sit in on boards of review. We welcome new dads to the back of the kitchen for the spaghetti dinner fundraiser. The fact is, we accept that the boy-lead model has ups and downs every year as different parents come in with new visions of how that should work.

First, you should ask where they've posted a registry. You'll want to save up for their gift. Second, the rules weren't meant to undermine a healthy lifetime relationships. Needless to say they can't bunk together until they're married.

"I'm not about to be bothered by the burrs up other folks' butts, including yours." Quote that around our council and someone might just ask if you've been talking to me! I hope your SM has the same attitude. In other words, he credits the work that folks do for boys and discounts personality conflicts among adults. Above all, he respects committee members in proportion to the service they give. In some cases, that service amounts to one hour a month (or maybe less), but if that's an hour doing what nobody else wants to or can do, it means a lot. (Just think about the man-hours you could waste in committee deciding who would do that one job!) And sometimes the boys benefit from someone with a troop connection puttering about council. A boy may have a project that spans several districts, there might be an opening on a council contingent that a boy might like, or you just might have the heads up on training opportunities. So, if the SM has no current beef with the guy, call him. Ask him what he's been doing lately and if he needs to still be on the troop roster for his position at council. Support him as best you can. The other two MCs? Ask the SM about having a conversation where he slips in that first line.

BD, only if our SPLs. Can get paid for the job! Otherwise, I think our adults are actually helped by getting a sense of our boys' progress. I know in youth sports we sometimes pay referees, but scouting is a different kind of sport.

It's not exactly DADT. It's asking a youth to not cave in to society's pressure towards sexualization (of any orientation) before he/she can even afford the costs of sexual activity. (Otherwise, the government or my insurance plan pays.). I've done that for several youth and, oddly, they seemed to have listened at least until they were officially adults. If a youth tells me, "I don't care about the costs, or my religion, or the norms you're trying to foist on me." I might just reply, "Well, scouting just might not be for you." Not a single youth has told me that. So I'm just being hypothetical. If one ever does, I'll let you know a few monts after the fact..

And here my worst worry was some venturer telling my she's pregnant, due date 9 months post our last camp-out! It's clear to my youth I'm stridently pro-virginity. And, since sexual preference does not seem to be as "locked in" as some would propose, I'd ask the boy if he's able to hold that thought until he's 18 and his other scouts have matured enough to join in that conversation. The closer to adulthood, the more direct I would be about BSA policy and encourage the boy to reconcile his stance with that. Hopefully that won't mean leaving the organization, but it may.

They are youth. They are rarely fully functional! This is the first substantial leadership role for most of these boys. I've been in organizations with seasoned adults, and they never quite succeeded until we all agreed that there's some growing to do in all of us. Getting boys to accept that is a lot tougher. So to each boy say something like "I'll be patient with you if you'll be patient with him!" Actually I have know idea what the right word choice will be for your boys. I've seen different SM's do it differently. The fact that they even were making the effort to listen and encourage seemed to make a difference. Needless to say, positive reinforcement as these boys complete tasks (including showing up for meetings, showing due courtesy, etc ...) is essential.

Nice to hear your progress. These 15 year olds, you should have them as part of your self-assessment. Maybe not right away, but in a few months. So, you may want to throw a little humility in the mix. "Guys, I am just starting out as SM. You're my most experienced scouts. I won't have any idea if I'm doing a good job if you aren't out in the field to evaluate me. I need you to stick with us, especially during this Webeblos cross-over stuff. That may sound like I'm asking a lot of you, but if you do, how can I make it up to you?" Think in terms of rewarding trips just for the 14+ crowd. Whitewater, caving, climbing. Or just a "leadership patrol" weekend to themselves. Then, tell them they let their SPL down. They owe him an apology. Leave the MB separate. Just tell them that as part of the course, from here on out you expect them to contact you and arrange an appointment for any requirements to be reviewed. I think that would be a plan the boys' dads can get behind.

I think the extended discussion was more than the boy deserved. I usually have them read the descriptions in the book, and they may come back to me if they found one they can make it work. I have a pair of leaders in the crew right now who don't want to hold a particular position. They don't want to take ILSC! My reply: There's work to be done. When you all want to sit, read the leadership manual and divide up tasks, I'll consider your position started as soon as you start the first task. I don't care if there's a name for it. All I care is that you decide what jobs have to get done for the sake of the crew, and we move forward from there. Obviously, you might need to find out what else is eating at this boy. For example, burn-out is clearly at play in my high school youth. Sometimes a boy has no time, or has been put down hundreds of times for trying to do a job. He might need some help prioritizing or overcoming.

qwazse: Your riding the bus with your venturer is not an issue. You really have no idea the potential for romance on Port Authority buses, do you? I bet between our Pack, Troop, and Crew, I bet I could find some well meaning scouter who would make a tempest in that teapot. But suppose I drove into work that day. Now an issue? I think not. Giving a ride to my daughter's buddy "off the clock" trumps a lot of scouting regs. But, in the same week, another venturer was dropped off at a meeting. Before anyone else in the crew arrived, we sat outside in view of the cubs and parents coming to their meeting. We didn't go to our meeting room until another youth and his mom arrived. And knowing she needed a ride home, I asked that family to drive her. In other words, seeing a chance to make YPT work (and get home in time to watch the Steeler game), I took advantage of it. I would suggest that repetition is a factor here. If one adult is repeatedly seeking out one-on-one contact with youth, you have a serious problem. If the youth and adult have earned a high level of trust, and the situation is unique, you have a less of a problem. But if a "unique" situation happens often, you may need to shed some light on it.

A high performing troop can get gold even if they don't have perfect recruitment. You might not improve your score every year and still be repeatedly gold. (And yes, it does bug me that gold was put higher than silver.)

I think for us it boils down to getting scout parents on the trail where they can see things in operation. But, at the same time keeping them in the 'old farts patrol' so they can be observers. At the same time we discover how different parents interact with the boys and begin to separate the oversized patrol leaders from the folks with a knack for coaching. We also make it clear that these boys benefit from a diverse group of adults and not every ASM need be on Avery outing.

Oops. Double post.(This message has been edited by Qwazse)

Just looked at the troop score card for 2012. Not bad. Pity there isin't a line for the SPL's signature. Can't find where it mentions "the corporation"?

Oh snap! One of my venturers came to my office and we commuted home together so she could have dinner with my daughter who was in town for the weekend. We even sat in the same seat and talked about the weighty matters of life and backpacking trips (not there's a distinction)! Between changing busses downtown, we should have dashed to HQ and turned ourselves into the SE. My bad. Guess I shouldn't blab about it. Oh wait, her mom called her while we were in transit! The young lady told her "I'm on the bus with Mr. Q.". I even said "Hi." THERE'S A TRAIL OF EVIDENCE! Worse, mom, took YPT. I'm so screwed.

Geocaching Eagle requirements update Winter camping Leave no trace Hornaday awards Religious awards New merit badges - meet the councilors Tax law and the volunteer Thos were some I really appreciated. Get knowledgeable people to do them. Don't let announcements and beading ceremonies consume all the time, have fun.