qwazse

MT, some people like spiders and collect webs! And the OP doesn't sound fly like at all. An SMC by any other name is still that. If he meets with the boy to discuss his scouting career, how things are going (or in this case, not going) in the troop, what his goals are, what he thinks of all these monkey-shines, etc ... it is an SMC. Sure you could withhold a signature, but doing so would be a lie if in fact you have had a forthright conversation with the boy. That conversation should end either recommending that the boy to a BOR or asking the boy to demonstrate his to the SPL or PL before he goes to the board. This is not a "once and done" debate, this is a recognition that sometimes when troops fold, things slip through the cracks, or things get done in hurry. The only way to be sure of the validity of any signature is to see a scout in action. Now, the SM can take a hard line and say "I only take requests for SMC's at troop meetings by boys in attendance." But if that results in not seeing the boy *at all* then you've defeated your purpose. As far as registration goes, the CC should have the "unit copy" of the form. It should be obvious who signed it. In any case, it's on the CC to tangle with the mom about bypassing the unit leader. The bottom line: you don't want to punish a boy for the actions of adults, but part of that means insisting that a boy speak for himself.

This is one of hose questions you should float at your next roundtable. What you really want is all boys to be awarded fairly. If everyone where you live thinks that "assist" actually means a registered transfer to a troop, then stick to that. But that's a metric that's dependent on circumstances a den chief can't control. I suspect most of us would be very pleased with 100% of Webelos II crossing over. But even without playing the numbers game, what if the boy was assigned to a wolf den? Can he be credited with assisting those cubs even though they aren't moving up to Webelos next year? Also could assist just mean helping in a crossover ceremony? Does it mean helping a boy push paper? Inviting the den(s) to your troop meeting/activity?

Having been burned like BD. (At least the lame excuse was had to pay for next years high adventure. Hello? What about *my* next year's HA?) Let offer this ... You have the right to judge. The Good Lord doesn't want us thinking we'll get any better standing in heaven than the schlub who can't keep his house in order. We"re all in the same boat there. But some straights are worse than others, and you're expected to be generous to the poor, to seek the lost, if you will. Lost ain't "these camp fees are eating into our Disney dollars, can you help us out?" Leverage your discernment, and you're folks will fess up about what's really going on if you've misinterpreted things. That or they'll drop cable and pay for camp.

We call it a scoutmaster's discretionary fund. The SM CC and Treasurer are required to approve its use. No need to bring up to the committee. No paperwork necessary.

Some insanity prevention moves: - Put what you think someone was told by someone else out of your mind. You know what you said. If you cross paths with the SM you can have a sit-down and probably know what he said. (Kinda like talking to us, only you don't have to type and a real coffee might be involved!) Be nice to know what the boy things and to find out how he's adapting and maybe thriving in a new environment. - Expect UC's to be top notch. If grandma has something useful to say, give her a listen. In fact, you may be at an advantage now that she's not related to anybody in your troop. - At least you're turning in your charter! Try to do that before processing the transfer(s). If they've been pushed through before you could make changes, ask the UC or DE to help you sort it out. Remember, you're going back to a great group of boys!

Problem is, I bet, this is a lesson the boy wouldn't mind learning. Mom is getting in the way. On the flip side, we've had boys transfer to our troop b/c we didn't whitewash Eagles on boys' shirts. Your best hope is that she'll blab about you all over the district and you'll have a new boy or two for it all in a couple of months.

My attitude is that it's such a great opportunity, why not plan around it? You will hear all kinds of excuses. Let the bottom line be the bottom line. If they don't want to start putting money down, they probably don't want to go. If it's important to the boy, the family would jump on it. Your "great opportunity" might be one other family's "one obligation too many." Focus on helping those boys with payment problems find a job!

Boys moving up to cubs are quite proud of switching from blue to red epaulets. (Or is it khaki now? I've lost track.) The Jambo epaulets were seriously cool. If all venturers had to do was keep the same shirt and switch epaulets, they'd be proud of that too. And, our area and council youth on the venturing side do work to provide opportunities for multiple units to gather at area meetings and such. They coordinate training opportunities, unique outdoor skills instruction, and some seriously cool parties in some awe inspiring locations. Now, I'm not saying that stuff would disappear if you got rid of the epaulets. But council and area positions are in no way figureheads.

I'm a sucker for a good story and would want to hear from the boy. At the same time I'd make it clear that I hate paperwork and don't do anything "on paper only." I'd make it clear that the first SM conference will not be a "sign-off" on rank. Rather it would be a time to figure out what's really going on. Why troop? What good has that membership card done him this year? Why eagle now? (If he's 1st class, he can just wait until he joins a crew and work with his advisor. If not, he can start on the trail to an equally prestigious venturing silver.) You seem to know why he wouldn't want to be active in a troop at the time. Ask him if he's changed his mind about that. I would make sure you have this SMC well away from ear-shod of the mom.

Not exactly the kind your thinking of, but our "consolidation into service areas" and subsequent merger into Laurel Highlands Council proceeded on the scale of years. Far as I can tell, programming was largely unchanged. Most of that is really dependent on volunteers anyway. Pros got spread pretty thin, though. I know a few pro's who quit. For the workload, they could simply make more $$ elsewhere. Others found their niche. My personal "jury" is still out on the consolidating of all venturing in council into its own district. However, one plus is that we have more than just one pro who knows the program!

Keep in mind I last did this two years ago, but I doubt things have changed all that much. I was able add/remove crew members up until a couple months before setting sail. We wound up recruiting four crew from across the Eastern Seaboard. The last two didn't sign on until 5 months prior to casting off. Also, one thing that a lot of folks don't understand: the sailboats don't stay close together. It's a big ocean, and each captain sets his own course! You'll cross paths from time to time. You may or may not anchor in the same location for the night. Often that depends on the day and the tides and the mechanics of the boat. If your boys have been working the patrol method, and get the notion of camping some distance apart, that shouldn't be a problem. If they are a tight knit group, you can put a bid on a larger 10-12 person adventure. That's what I wanted to do for our last trip, but lost the lottery. We got our two boats in the second round. (Basically, we got offered the adventures of units who won but passed on their bid when it came time to pony up $$ for the down-payment.)

Guy, my crew CC does next to nothing. We're a bit dysfunctional that way. But in general crew committees do little more than rally adults to support the youth based on the youth's requests for support. The crew youth are much more responsible for it's workings. The adults that come to chaperon activities don't see it as much of a chore. I think most of us would agree that the most time consumed is the Advisor's. So if you don't have a person willing to clock the hours (and given your set-up a lot of those hours will be coordinating with your SM), it's a non-starter. Anyway, you can browse some of the old post on the venturing thread to see how things get going. But usually it is a group of driven youth, and we adults just try to keep up and channel that energy -- a wild ride indeed.

Monthly payments starting in January!!! Start at $100/month until you've nailed down your budget. If someone falls behind it is a good indication they can't afford the trip without some help. Contracts! Make it very clear that you (the troop) are not responsible for finding a replacement. If someone cancels, they are responsible for finding their replacement, and it's up to them to negotiate return of payments. If they don't, the money they put in stays with the crew unless the replacement actually pays full fare. Really, times are tough and you may need to bail somebody out before the thing is through. Let your committee know that they should increase fundraising goals. Definitely shoot for recruiting four more youth. A 50:50 split between adult and youth is not optimal. Are your adults trained to a direct-contact position? Make this a requirement before signing them on. If the boys blab about this to their sisters/girlfriends, brace yourself. There may be a venturing crew in someone's future.

It's amazing how we take the boys who work well with younger scouts for granted until you have a bunch who don't! Our troop has gone through a period where the older scouts were just not into mentoring. (No offense to him, but son #1 was part of that.) The younger scouts had fun, but they didn't start advancing until much later. 50% tenderfoot by 8 months sounds about our speed. Yes, we lost a few parents in this process. On the flip side, our next generation of leaders (son #2 being one of them) sincerely care for our younger scouts. I just sat with them last week, and we went over the rules and responsibilities regrading signing off on trail to first class. (One hint, we let any PL sign off on any boy's requirements. They are still pretty strict. Thus the complete abandoning of 1st class in 1st year.) 13 is not too young for a PL, but he needs the coaching to know that when he's in a jam he should call for back-up. Some boys simply don't know how to do this. Teach him some key phrases. "Mr. APL, could you cover tomorrow's meeting." or "Mr. Dean, I'm a little weak on this skill, could you help me present it?" When he fails to do that kindly let him know he dropped the ball. If he starts doing that, recognize him for his improvement. Then, you can start talking about making more solid plans. Finally, to the frustrated boys, point out that elections will be in just a few months.

It is really hard for boys to "let go" of the idea of SPL. Your problem is that 12 is not really "senior" in most cases. That SPL of yours is effectively doing APL. Not a problem, really, but you want the boys to know they would be challenged if 3 patrols were dropped on your doorstep. That doesn't look like it's gonna happen, so why not think about simplifying things? Give your boys the two options. If you are one of those picture types call them organizational charts A & B. One will be the usual SM - SPL - ASPL and multiple PLs, etc ... Except you have to put question marks over all but one of the patrol branches. The other is an SM - PL - APL and boys in one column. Ask them to decide what will work best for them for now. Explain that there will be enough positions in either structure for anyone who wants to work on advancement. Emphasize that nobody will hold any position that they are not working. Be clear that if you're not good at one position there are two options: improve or take a break for a couple of weeks then try something else. That brings us to your scribe. Ask him if he thinks he can improve. This may mean setting a goal to do one thing a little better, or making something about his job a little easier. Also, maybe he doesn't see his notes as being all that important. Maybe he's right. Ask him if he'd be okay talking with the rest of the boys about fixing things. You get the idea. You don't want to cancel elections. You want the boys to figure out what they need to get work done better.

We don't do much with cabins, but when we do, we add it to the individual cost. Now, if this weekend was something that you all said that your fundraisers were for, you may want to underwrite some of the cost. But your committee needs to look at your budget for the rest of the year to see how much you can afford to put to this weekend. Most packs make a big production of pinewood derbies and Blue & Gold banquets, you want to make sure everybody agrees on what they'll spend towards those big ticket items so you'll have an idea of what's left for these activities.

In addition to the teacher who didn't want a "rap" for arranging baccalaureate service in accordance with the law, I have one other experience of someone wanting to give up without a fight. On a family weekend, some of us, instead of going to church, opted to just gather the kids and lawn-chairs and have a little prayer service on the beach. This really wrankled the home-owners because their association by-laws prohibited the use of the property for the establishment of a church. I made it clear that I was not about to trade the Constitution in for anybody's set of by-laws, which, for he record, can't be enforced on Commonwealth waters. What's become of us?

Yep, that's where we'd have a discussion. I think I would offer two options. Either: 1. Always be prepared with a summary of what you've done in the last month for your council/region, and do something (even for just one minute) to represent council/region by way of sharing information, recruiting, asking for assistance, etc ...., or 2. Shed the pretty colors until you do. P.S. - That also applies, IMHO, to a dual-registered boy who shows up at troop meetings in his crew uniform or vice-verse. That I have had some experience with, and the boys seem to have figured it out on their own just fine. (Adults on the other hand ...)(This message has been edited by qwazse)

rj - welcome to the hike-a-month club. (It's okay if a few of those are day excursions.) I suspect you'll be coming our direction or to parts south to hike some verticals. Won't be enough to prep anyone for altitude sickness, but will start getting those legs in shape. One former ASM routinely did morning jogs on some steep land near home at 5 in the morning to shape up. My brother (a hiking guide for YMCA of the Rockies) lives in Lorain and befriended a farmer with a few steep slopes (in 80ft ravines) where he can do reps to stay in shape. I suggest you go and do likewise.

The caveat I always go with, is these youth should NOT be wearing silver or gold loops UNLESS they are doing stuff in those positions. If that OA youth leader (or Venturing leader) is doing stuff as a 'regular' troop/crew member, they shouldn't be wearing the loops (or the office patches). I might go with EMB's take if our crew used the national uniform for its unit uniform. As it is, the only youth who have green shirts are/were VOA officers, and they only pull them out for multi-unit activities. Even if my crew were "kelly greeners," I wouldn't be bothered with seeing silver or yellow epaulets at a unit meeting or public activity. It would remind everyone of the different levels at which they may serve. Same thing with troop ware. Lot's of parents don't have a grasp of how much responsibility a boy may take on. So, if there's something about the uniform of one or two boys that may cause a parent to ask a question, I consider that a good thing. Obviously, if someone seems to be having a power complex because of the patches they are carrying, I'd take issue with them. If it was a youth, we'd be having a conference. Still, I'd rather ask for a change in behavior than ask for a change in uniform.

Yep, Pere. I believe that an accommodation of this sort would require removing "duty to God" and "reverent" from oath and law. It would be an admission that religion is not a necessary foundation for one's character. That's precisely what many folks believe, and they aren't all atheists. Lots of scouters would not be willing to concede that view. On the other hand, my church is more accommodating to atheists than the BSA is.

S97, There is a clash of world views on this one. But, it's not so much not seeing it as living, but seeing the imposition on an unwilling or inept mother as the greater evil. Abortion advocates see it as the ultimate cruelty to let a child even have have one breath in that context of "unwantedness." I know a few folks who are children of such moms, and their life is hard. They *do* suffer. That said, to my knowledge, not a one of them has asked to be terminated.

"But Mr. Stosh, I don't know migh knots, I was taught once-and-done using edge!" Interesting how folks have brought up the ambiguities of war and criminal execution, but nobody mentioned abortion. Causing a woman to terminate a pregnancy is punishable in the Torah, but there is some debate if "the penalty" is the same that for causing both mother and child to die. Also, the desire of the mother to have the child is assumed. (Exodus 21:22) Our problem is that science has revealed how unique a fetus is from even the embryonic stage, and reckoning with that knowledge is the source of our mourn tumult over the issue.

What does the dual registered boy do? Does he camp with his patrol which depends on him as part of the team or does he camp with his crew that has a more individual flare? I've found that the youth are quite capable of sorting this out by themselves. All you have to do is let them know before the event that they have responsibilities and need to work things out so everyone is taken care of. Generally, it's the SPL who has it the toughest. The younger one's tend to realize too late that they would rather be with one group or another, but haven't communicated clearly to make it happen. The older one's make arrangements for when they might be away from the troop, communicate to the PLC, and delegate accordingly. The real problem with joint outings is that there tend to be more adults than there need to be. For me, that means I find myself coaching adults in keeping their distance -- more from the troop (where boys are just learning to work independently) than from the crew (where some of the older youth are looking for that adult partnership).

No, you believe in cussing with impunity. So do many nominally religious that cuss at atheists or anyone else whose lives have been imposed upon because of their rantings. It might be chalked up as antipathy, but really it's the plain old: "I got mine. I don't care if something is important to them." -- with a little profanity ordered up in a wasted attempt to elevate yourself above whatever wreckage lies around us. ... set her straight. ... So have you? Or is that "not your problem"? It's nice that you care. Well I guess I won't know if my reminding her of her 1st amendment rights will have helped until it's time for next year's graduation festivities.