qwazse

You have to break it down ... For example, I'm a map guy. Given the time, I will get multiple copies of a location (paper and electronic). Study the route, study the terrain, check insertion/extraction points, look up hikers' reports, call the ranger station about a particular plan, nag buddies, find a couple of youth to train in planning at that intensity, laminate the best mapset, mark it up. It's what I do. With or without boys in tow, I'd probably be doing that. (In fact my not-so-secret Santa just handed my the latest PA Trail guide as I type this.) I'll then bore my family by sitting at the table with that best map and mark-up and narrating what worked or didn't work on the last hike. The other paperwork, well that makes me surly and ill-tempered. I don't want to talk about it because it gives me a bad attitude towards everyone who get's in the way of me getting it done. I'm no fun to be around when I'm doing it. A scouter who needs to "pull back from the edge" is someone who is not actively delegating the parts of the job he hates to someone who might actually enjoy doing them or will at least do them better and/or faster. I'm a proud man and maybe don't cry for help as often or as loudly as I should. Fortunately, the Mrs. is a good coach for me in that area.

Finally dawned on me why son #2 was prattling on about "alpaca lips".

I was going "yeah sure" until I got to the "trusty GPS." Definitely will forward! That's something that we're holding against our SM until another scouter (probably it'll be me) makes a better foible.

"Psychos look for Defenseless People to attack...When as the last time a Nut Case attacked a shooting Contest or a Cop Convention?" I think there was an attack on a CIA base near the beltway just a couple years ago - beat the guards to the draw and kept on firing. But yeah, psychos (once you know a few) are also pathologically lazy. They generally don't hike miles and miles into nowhere just to get off their shots, not while there's a building full of innocents nearby. (God help us all.) Bears want easy food. Lionesses want to account for every large mammal anywhere near their cubs. Pigs want to clear their territory of aimless wanderers. [beav, I'm not arguing you, but there are captains and then there are captains. You have to be a little self-absorbed to think you can hold a hull together year after year on open ocean. Some do that with more grace than others. That's all I'm sayin' about that.]

Don't bang your head against the bulkhead over this. (If you're my height and on a sub, you'll be doing a lot of that for other reasons.) Do your best to arrange separate accommodations. Sometimes that means the adults bunk in the the far corner of the same room. If you have boys who have shown discipline and trustworthiness: no problem giving them their own cabin. You can set up your tent just outside in the snow for lights-out! The cabins/houses in our council camps have separate rooms or sometimes only alcoves for the adult bunks. We adjust accordingly. On the way to these high adventures, some hotels require an adult occupant in every room. We adjust. (Of course the youth are 14+ and there are at least three of them to one of us.) Those 8-man crews on 44' boats at Seabase? Adjust. With co-eds? Really adjust! That is not a slippery slope. What would be a slippery slope? Try this: On the next backpacking trip your contingent arrives in a huge meadow, and you insist on setting up your tent wall-to-wall with a youth's tent. Your excuse: "We were bunked this close last month in the same space ... now it's two separate tents as per G2SS." Now your skiing downhill!

Thanks for the anecdotes Jp. I have relatives who hunt hog in FL, so I get what you're saying. Were you with a pack/troop/crew on any of those outings? The skunk kills, was that as part of camp staff, or did the ranger ask every SM to shoot first, ask questions later. Obviously, there's a distinction between high adventure and outings suitable for 11 year olds. Salmon fishing in Alaska, sombody better have your back with a high powered rifle. Heck even the occasional Seabase captain keeps a pistol (in case of pirates). I'll check with a troop who went hiking in Glacier if any in their party carried, but I don't think they did. In general, I can envision numerous situations with scouts where a carried weapon would cause more problems than it solves. Most importantly, if you carry, do you bring along a gun lock for when you don't have it on you?

OEAE, thanks. I always thought of Christmas as a bit of a dark time. Maybe that's because when I was a kid, I got the part of Herod in the Christmas pageant. Something got to me about a guy so powerless to get his hands on his usurper' that he clears a village of infants and toddlers. The only reason the angels said "peace" was because most stories have them appearing before the witness dies. But I suppose that if ruin and destruction usually come before you, the best thing someone can hear from your lips is "good will toward men". Maybe it's the same way with us. We take peace for granted, but we need to practice it. Our children need to learn how to let peace, not destruction, go before them. To do that there's a lot of lessons about grace and forgiveness and mercy that need to be ingrained in every mind. Without that, it's a miracle every day that destruction is avoided. . And maybe that's the point of Christmas. Oh, and let's forget F&C. This thread is exactly where it needs to be.

#s of self/friend-inflicted gunshot wounds vs. # of beast inflicted wounds Facts anyone?

File it under "reasons why 18+ y.o.'s couldn't be bothered."

There was a mini flip chart called "selling venturing". It had a page of talking points for different target audiences (including prospective COs). I have no idea how to find it. Not sure if there's something for packs and troops.

Acco, I think hat's how most youth see it and I'm not about to disavow them of the notion -- especially given E92's admonition. In general, I don't spout off rules, I make the youth read the guide and sort it out for themselves. Good advice on the emergency contact thing. There's no category for it, but the roster is a convenient place for #s. Faster look-up than all those med forms. By the way, the getaway weekend link I posted is a sweet gig. I'm looking forward to it after banging out this charter.

BD, although I have every reason to believe you're right, talking to boys is what we do, so I'm with EL on this one. I don't think any one of us should let adult shenanigans get in the way of that. Also, if the mom is a crew advisor, her feet need to be held to the fire. We can hope she'll be receptive to EL's standards and use it in her own role as a scouter. (Although honestly, for most people, it takes years.)

That's great news. It's exactly that kind of shared event that helps people think of how to help the pack. Hope the boy they send you puts in that extra hour a week. But, even if he can make it sometimes, it's a huge help. Just make sure he checks in ahead of time, and let the SM know if he's AWOL. Hint: summer camp is so much more manageable with den chiefs, it's worth footing their bill. Boy scouts and the age of velcro ... don't be surprised if your den chief has to read up on that square knot!

Oh, and the kid who snuck a gun into camp? Not one of the "bad" or "crazies." So, yeah, deal with the problem personalities, but don't ever think that in doing so, you've dealt with the problems!

We got a few and each is different. The Asperger's kid is actually the best one, but he doesn't stick with stuff, feels bad about it, eventually quits. I'm hoping he'll come back. The behavior disorder kid gets a short leash. Violence = go home. The worst this kid has done was throw punches, and he manned up an apologized to the troop. He has eventually learned to walk away from situations that anger him. Now, he knows to send himself home. A parent is always with him. If a parent doesn't agree with how we treat a kid or what we expect from them because their kid needs help, we show them the door. If a boy gets a suspension from school, we expect to know the when, how and why, and the boy had better give a solid plan for improving in the future. Some slower than others, but most kids who have us deal with them quickly and directly like that keep coming back better than before.

At the upcoming ski weekend in the hills there are men's houses and women's houses. No honeymoon suites. (For any crews in the neighborhood looking for something to do the first weekend in the new year: http://heritagereservation.org/winter/winterv.php) But, if she were willing to tent with him in what we hope will be perfect ski conditions, I would set up their tent and bring breakfast-in-bed personally! Only one of my female youth (my daughter) has been willing to winter camp.

pap & pack - I know this is hard to believe if you haven't seen it for yourself, but "peace and comfort" can find its way in to to people robbed of all happiness. You see it in some people, victims of war and famine and the worst depredations, and it seems to be a supernatural work. You want it for everyone else. Maybe even for yourself. Maybe that's not possible. Maybe the forever-tormented are the rational ones, and those that find comfort and dust off the ashes and walk tall in the midst of such sorrow are as mad as one who would perpetrate those heinous crimes. Maybe the mix of us need to live together so we don't forget how much work needs to be done on the level of the soul. Doesn't matter. I'm stuck with a God who offers peace and goodwill. I'm calling him on it. And even though I haven't seen my friend for decades and never met his wife or kids, I'm hoping that somehow my prayers will better help them be messengers of all that. Finally, like Ea. says, there's a difference between a person who is insane and one who is indifferent to human life. So if you know a crazy person, this week might be a good time to get in touch and let him/her know in not so many words that you're glad they've managed to keep it together.

I've never done this. But, it's a great idea. I think you should just simply have your crew pres have everyone circle up, then call out the co-avdvisors and ask them "will you help us to " They say, "I will". President says, "Then, please accept the role of associate advisor to crew ___" Co-Advisor's shake the president's hand, followed by officers, then every youth in the circle. Let us know what you finally do and how it works.

Never mind. Found the option "Non Custodial Partner". But,for future reference. What if a single 18-20 year old with no parents enrolls?

First for me, and evidently for the internet rechartering. I have a youth application from an 18 y/o spouse. No parent info. The "add youth" step is insisting on a parent/guardian. Any easy way around this?

Great pics! Note that your presentation would not play on my mobile device. Not sure if that was your preference or YT or MS's defaults.

Found out that I was three degrees of separation from the tragedy. A friend from my youth relocated there with his family. His kids are survivors. So, I got a picture of a couple more kids to pray for. Not any of the ones seen on the news. I'd like to think that in the grand scheme of things they need our prayers for more than just immediate reasons. Somehow, for Good to prevail for eternity, like Beav said, evil must have it's way for a day.

Oh, I've tried starting 10 weeks in advance and I got no further ahead with responses than when I started 2 weeks in advance. So this year, I didn't start until after Thanksgiving. Things are moving twice as fast. Where it took 11 weeks to get confirmation from 80% of the youth last year, it's only taken 3. Last year, I had one adult procrastinate with YPT because she didn't think it didn't matter. It took clear into January for her to understand that she was holding the rest of the crew hostage! (She was sincerely apologetic, for what it's worth.) I don't expect that problem, because I made sure my key leaders were caught up, and I'm dropping any adult without up-to-date YPT. But before last week, I was frustrated, nobody besides my son came to the meeting where we were collecting dues, only one youth had responded to repeated E-mails and FB posts, and I was beginning to wonder with my DE if I would have enough paid youth to make a crew. Still, I'm missing today's deadline. Money's not in. Even if it was, the treasurer is collecting her son from college. It's a vicious cycle. We spend so much time counting members (and, thanks to YPT, herding adults), we don't get program done. And ski season is the busiest part of our year! This month would be better served by promoting our trips. Figuring out who's in and who's out, for us, would be better done in March or June.

I hate rechartering. Partly because it falls during finals week and my college students are too stressed over finals to think of anything else. Has your crew moved your rechartering to a different month? Does it help/hurt/do nothing?

Okay, maybe I'm being too literal about things. And in practice, I wouldn't have an "official" SMC until all of the rank requirements have been reviewed by our advancement chair. All of us have productive talks with our boys about, life in and out of scouting. I think the SMC encourages boys to get in the habit of those talks. And let's be honest about the kid who needs to go back to the drawing board. You know, the one who just doesn't believe you when you say "this is what you need to do." Those multiple meetings bout requirements are in effect one drawn-out SMC. We only sign off when we're convinced the message got through and work is done. So, EL, if you are convinced the work is done, your SMC is complete. If you think there is more to this story (e.g., the boy intentionally avoided the troop because of negative past experiences and now he's on the other extreme and needs to excersise a little accountability), make it clear to Mom that this is not a one-evening deal! If I were you, I would try to contact the former leader and see if there is any data independent of mom. Especially, I would want to know who are the folks who could legitimately sign off on work, what merit badges the boy was working on, etc ... Finally, if there is any real work to be done, and the boy wants to give it a go, make a plan. Team him up with your best PL. There's nothing wrong with him being a venturer while working on rank advancement in the troop. (My best crew members are often multiples of other units.) Let him know why you think your troop is a great one to earn Eagle in and let him know, that if you will definitely make it worth his time if he digs in.