qwazse

The aspects of prisoner's dilemma that aren't discussed in TGoL are long term strategies. Obviously, if your cliques are all helpful, then continuing that way is a productive strategy. But, what if you have an unhelpful clique and (unlike 2C) you do care? Game theory suggests that the next most winning strategy involves all of the cliques becoming unhelpful and not attempting a mutually beneficial strategy until the belligerent clique takes a beating. (In TGoL that means everyone chooses unhelpful until the obnoxious table takes a loss by choosing helpful while everyone else still chooses unhelpful. That the signal that for the next round, everybody tries helpful. If a clique tries unhelpful again, all switch to unhelpful for the following round until that clique "pays" by signaling it's willingness to take a loss.) In a sense, this "corporate discipline" is its own kind of helpfulness, enforcing a culture of altruism. We aren't all wired one way (selfish or selfless), but we all have the ability to inculcate a spirit of increasing or decreasing altruism in others. We just have to know how to "trip the switches."

This is right at your 10 hour mark: http://heritagereservation.org/eaglebase/index.php Road construction (a.k.a. orange blossom season) will probably add an hour to that. I met some young ladies who were in the midst of this program one evening. They were having a great time, by all accounts and by virtue of the fact they were making a bee line for the lake after a day of hiking.

I have a friend, a professional trainer, who just retired from the army and came up with what seems to be a solid wilderness first aid course. I told him I would probably try out his course if the BSA would honor it. The problem: he's getting the run-around in terms of certification. (I shared with him links from scouting.org and national camp school and he has had no response from E-mails.) He tried contacting a "local" guy ('bout an hour's drive away), who said that he already offered plenty of courses. (Yeah, on weekends that non of us could attend and we would have to commute or find lodging.) So does anyone have a "step-by-step" process of becoming a certified instructor? One that BSA will honor on a tour permit.

Forget this low-brow stuff Ea. Be patient, the time will come when the world needs a British pope!

Just one poor hobo telling another where to find food ...

Sentinel, read up on game theory and the prisoner's dilemma. It's interesting stuff -- especially if your fields touch on computer science, behavioral evolution, or philosophy. The bottom line: there is a cost to being helpful. Specifically, if you are risking someone taking advantage of you. And one way of avoiding paying that cost is putting you (or your clique) first. However, the trade-off is that you never reap the long term benefits of being mutually helpful. The game-of-life is set up so that if every clique is "helpful" they all gain points. But if one clique is unhelpful, they will gain more at the cost of others losing. The challenge is that you aren't communicating to other cliques for the first few rounds, and even when you do, a clique that has the "edge" might not be willing to change to a helpful strategy. Of course, Woodbadge participants aren't told that they are playing out a prisoner's dilemma, and folks are caught off guard by how other folks behave.

I think that's what happens when we "toss the salad." There are some boys who hold together as a core, some boys who work well with anyone, some who don't, and some we just can't figure out. We just hope hey land in bowls fit for serving!

I've seen backpacking crush some of my crew. Should I remove it from my program? The prisoner's dilemma is a pretty common topic in most decision theory classes. I think it helps people to see that we are often more selfish than we let on (even to ourselves). It also gives an idea of how to redirect people who are bent on a strategy of "always out for #1." Acting it out brings out more emotions. But I don't think that's bad. Besides, it's a game. It sure beat watching one more film.

We're lucky if they last a year. Our patrols seem to constantly reform and rename themselves. Our numbers have been at 18 for some time. No four boys seem to be in the same set of activities, they come from markedly different neighborhoods, they avoid competitions. The boys strongly prefer to operate as a troop. I've really never seen anything like it.

Had a look. Pretty good. I think a side-bar titled "I found an error in my training records", with step-by-step instructions on how to correct it (including who to contact, etc...) would help those who have no patience for fine print!

Ya, Frank, sometimes that's the only way to deal with "mama bear." Especially if she's trying to work each ASM in hopes that one will eventually cave. Sometimes, even when we're courteous and gentle, moms take it hard -- even moms who are truly helpful. A mom was brought to the edge of tears when I explained last year (or was it the year before?) that it'd be fine if junior wouldn't advance beyond Life scout. That boy just started his Eagle project today.

Didn't load over the coffee shop internet. When I get a land line, I'll see if it's any better. Looked at my unit toolbox last night and brought up our training records. Our most senior member had lots of records, but not his Woodbadge. His daughter, however, earned it at age 11! Needless to say, a page about constant maintenance is probably warranted.

Vision doesn't have to be a complex statement, and actually we sometimes use different words for different parents: "Troop __, we take bad kids." "Hike and camp, hike and camp, hike and camp ... and fish!" "We want a troop full of first-class scouts." "Don't worry, we'll let them know once they've hiked a mile out of their way." Note: we don't exclusively recruit kids with behavioral disorders. Our calendar isn't only hiking and camping. Most of our boys are Star or Life, going on Eagle. And, we do guide boys even when they're only 100 yards off trail (sometimes). But, those little catch-phrases give adults a picture of what our youth are about.

That's cheaper than some people's annual cable bill.

Tents are warmer by maybe 10 degrees, but our boys are nuts about those Adirondacks and bunk-houses! Everybody up here has decent bags and extra blankets. Once your in them, you're warm no matter where you lay them, as long as the bed is dry.

Options are always nice to have. As with all such things: communicate, communicate, communicate. Don't suspect anything. Find out from your high adventure guy how many adults your troop can supply. It may be two, but it could be one or none. You also want to be clear if this contingent is recruiting among crews in your council. That means it could be co-ed. This may be a problem for some of your parents. (It usually is not for the youth.) On the flip side, it's a great way for your boys to meet and work with youth from all over your council. That usually winds up being a very big plus. I had a scout/venturer be part of a council Philmont contingent. For a while, he was our go-to guy when it came to backpacking weekends. It was a positive for our crew and troop on many levels.

How do you incorporate new Scouts into these patrols, which are in excess of 8 each? Just noticed that part of the OP. Start asking some of your more capable scouts, "How would you like to start a new patrol?" That's what happened to me and a couple of buddies of mine when we got a swarm of crossovers. Our new "Wolf" patrol had the majority of 1st-years, but the other patrols each picked up one or two scouts moving over. Eventually, the older "Cobra" patrol retired as those boys moved on. The flag and other patrol equipment went into storage and was available to anyone who wanted to restart the patrol.

And happy Newton's Birthday for all the faith-in-science-only types. Although a closet Arian, he might still have some things to say on this day: "Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion. God governs all things and knows all that is or can be done."

As long as kids have access to firearms or grow up to access them, we should teach skills and safe use and encourage them to be as proficient as possible. Proficiency includes an understanding of safe and ethical use. 'nuff said.

One trick: Make sure the PLs and APLs have special opportunities (PLCs, crakerbarrels, training campouts, special service projects) where the seasoned leaders can pass on skills to young ones. Over time, is balances out the skill levels. Also, younger patrols should be able to invite senoir scouts with a particular skill to provide a training session. You should never let an older boy think that he has graduated from helping younger ones become better scouts.

Hard job, long hours, little reward, that's the bottom line for most former DE's who I know. Even if you butt heads with your DE, show them a little respect and write them a note or give them a thank you for the work they do put in. Charlei

I prefer not to mock people's religions (or lack thereof) out of fear of wrath of the God who called them into existence. But I've had friends with no such fear feel quite justified in abuses along the lines that Meryl described. That doesn't stop me from pointing out the difference between a guy in a silly hat reading a fairy tale and an Orthodox veneration of a bishop of the Church. I really hope nobody sees that as mocking.

3 million armed teachers. Average class size of, say 25. We'd be betting that over year or two that no more than one of those teachers would unload their clip(s) on a class. Or rather, that no more than 26 students will be killed nation-wide because of the policy. And, moreover, that all of psychopaths in the country will see classrooms with armed teachers as a deterrent. Long odds, if you ask me.(This message has been edited by qwazse)

No offence TC, but the really annoying part of this all is the equating of this figure to the stature of Nicolas of Myra, or that poem to the level of scripture. Pretty soon the works of Tolkein will be banned because too many parents are naming their kids after dwarves and hobbits. P.S. - Skeptic, you know I've said elsewhere don't ask for a rule, someone will make one for you? There's got to be a coralary for substitute teachers.

When something bad happens, not even narrow interpretation of the rules will be adequate. In fact, when the files are opened by some reporters injunction 30 years hence, that very bad thing will likely be blamed on narrowly interpreting the rules. Comfort and Joy to you SP!