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Yep. Son #1 got dinged for not showing up at BOR with his book, his patches were in order, though. By the time boys are up for Eagle SMC/BOR's they look pretty sharp. (Sometimes I get panicked calls from a sharp boy who can't find his scout belt 15 minutes befor his SMC. That's not something we all fet over, but after I hung up it was really temping to call the SM and ask him to rattle the boy a little.) If I were him, I'd bust the PL/SPL's chops for not noticing his patch on inspection. Of course they might bust back saying they told him once last year. Then I'd sew the patch on, ask the SM if it's adequate and ask if he could complete his conference sooner rather than later. In fact, if the troop is camping soon he might ask "I'd really like to have a fireside conference and BOR, is there any chance we can make that happen?"

A few summer camps back, a boy's uncle (on leave from the army) told me that he was overwhelmingly moved at seeing the boys at opening flag. That settled the relevance issue for me. It's only been affirmed since then by citizen after citizen (and a few internationals) who I've met since then.

foto, nobody in their right mind reads these topics by forum. (Frankly, I have no idea what forum this is at the moment because my screen only shows the middle of the page, and I'm too lazy to scroll up or down.) Folks click on "today's active topics" and pick what they want to read or write about. That said, folks if you are being the solution to some of foto's concerns, it sure would be nice to hear about it here.

Summer camp: really structured campfire program. One adult (a very senior ASM) leads most nights. One or two nights the youth lead. The adult passes the lead to him. Other nights: entirely at the boys' discretion. We do try to encourage the SPL to go over "Thorns and Roses".

- the last pig incident in the Pacific Northwest nearly led to war between the US and Great Britain. JMH, are you picking on my autocorrect? Do we need to file a "near miss" for damage to self-esteem?

The church I attend has little use for the BSA, they've never hosted a unit, and are perfectly content to cobble together a youth group on their own. There may be some CO's who feel the same, but not to the point of dropping units. I think, rather, that CO's would be happy to have more direct control over membership selection.

Hey BD, I remember that Navy Dive Tank! On one level, it was truly ridiculous. On another, it was the first time I ever snorkeled! Also it was the simple things: Meeting other scouts. Attending three different religious services with a buddy. All of the gateways and displays. Launching a catapult for the king of Sweden. Getting the tar beat out of me on an orienteering course. Coming home with an aerial photograph of tent city. The only down side: someone nicked my shirt that had an O/A patch from my tap-out. (Kiasutha Lodge #57 pocket flap, just in case anyone out there wants to fess up.) Never replaced that patch.

Sentinel: don't know which "thumpers" you know. But the best ones I've met reply, "Yes, and greatly." Of course, that sort doesn't get the best TV time. Now, nationwide we have certain "clashes of orthodoxies" here. One that insists that scouts in scouting should only be exposed to adult leaders who comport themselves sexually in a particular way (set of ways) vs. the other that insists scouts should be exposed to adults who comport themselves sexually in the variety of manners that represent the communities in which they live. One that insists that scouts in scouting should have a religious life as that is intrinsic to sound character vs. the other that insists scouts should be taught that religious life is not intrinsic to sound character and (by way of including the irreligious) that faith is an incidental, not a necessity. Clearly, this pack's membership voted to draw a line in the sand (in favor of the more secular orthodoxies), and then after consultation decided to remove it. I can't imagine this was merely a philosophical exercise. There are probably individuals whom they want to secure for the pack while still securing their association with BSA. It's odd how folks want a middle road, when there are two perfectly serviceable roads to drive on.

Went over these with the boys. Seems like they got it. None of them ever noticed that they never needed to light a fire! (The aren't a lot to leave any lay unlit.)

Discussed this with SM while hiking this weekend. For these near misses, can we just send in a photo and general description of each boy in the troop? Proactive reporting would save so much time! Seriously though, I think structured interviews of a stratified random simple of unit's across the nation will be more effective and accurate. Most leaders have a good idea of the troubles they had last year, and your more likely to get them to rattle off that info than to report every incident pig or small.

If I were you, I'd encourage your venture patrol to give itself a name that reflects something leadership corps-ish. Some examples: The Bosses, Top Guns, Long Walkers, or Leadership Corps A second unit has a lot of hassles. There are a few rewards, like helping out kids who missed out on scouting from ages 11 - 13. But if you don't have adults who'll support it, or youth who have a vision for it, it amounts to a lot of paperwork for what you could otherwise do by simply giving special attention and challenges to that patrol of older boys (by whatever name you call them).

Thanks for the update. This may be a challenge. For example where would this fall on the Good, Better, Best continuum ... ? Venturer fell skiing. It hurt. After evaluation by the group, qualified for for the crew face-plant award. Was given her choice of imported chocolate bars. She chose raspberry filled milk choc. No further symptoms reported afterword. I guess it's a near miss. Not typically something I would complete paperwork for. It would be something our youth would evaluate. It would probably be forgotten by the end of the charter year.

Pack, this was pre-GPS. The boy had dropped out of scouts, so I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't have a compass and only carried half the water he should have. I'll have to have him re-tell the story. He did get some great pictures. General question: what level of skill/experience do you require before you let a patrol navigate off-trail in an isolated area like this? Let's not factor in adults because even when they are there, my experience is that it's even odds that they will be a liability instead of an asset. Some of my boys are almost at a level where they could do this, but I'd like to know what you all'd expect before you'd give your approval.

BP, I guess you don't pastor a Presbyterian church.

It's not just units that drift away from "by the book" advancement. I had one case where we had to call national over an Eagle app. (One of my first posts on this forum.) council was ignoring a straightforward read of position of responsibility requirements.

I only visited with my family while passing through. But, my nephew nearly got lost on a day hike there. So yeah, navigation skills.

Thanks Rick. Just saw something today that the NYC had a record low murder rate last year. I think there's two additional factors. There are more than twice as many of us since 1950, so in terms of sheer numbers, we have more violent deaths. Media is much more efficient at disseminating news, so we're hearing about more of those deaths nationwide. So, I think some folks had the expectation that an enlightened society would have fewer total violent deaths.

consent of all except the fetus and in a peaceful context except for the fetus. But, thanks for the language. Because isn't the playing of violent video games done with the consent of all and in a peaceful context? If practicing the dispensation of death in actuality is not to be associated with a violent society, then probably practicing it virtually cant be either. I like Stosh's acceptance that we're a brutal lot much better.

CP: a person's sexual orientation is defined by the sexual relationships an adult has with other adults You might have to update a few Wikipedia references, then. And Webster, for that matter. Just like heterosexuality, homosexuality includes, at least on this campus, older participants grooming younger ones. Their ability to draw the line at age 18 is a mere formality. I'll agree that the molestation threat to our youth comes from those who fail to draw the age line. And, the reality is that those folks don't come to us with warning labels! The ban has little to do with immediate threats.

Mike - Your bigotry against happy shooters is duly noted. It's really arrogant of you to think anything else is more important. Trev - For every person I've talked to who throws the exclusions into the mix, dozens more have talked to me about this organization with extreme admiration. Our boys? CP - your defining the "ugly" homosexual acts out of the definition of "gay" is as disingenuous as Beav's claims of diversity. We're about as close to naming the sexual orientation of pedophilles as we are to figuring out how to overcome race and class divides among different scouting units. I'll agree with you on this: if the ban had to do with youth being put at risk because of an adult's sexual preference, then I shouldn't be allowed to advise a co-Ed crew. It is odd. My church youth group is more welcoming to homosexuals and athiests than is the BSA, and it falls squarely into the group that CP rants about. Of course the desire to convert is overt, but as long as they put up with it, they are welcome.

In the 60s, indifference to the life of the unborn was not a public option. Now, from the start of every pregnancy, a woman's right to terminate the life within for any cause is held inviolate. Fortunately indifference to life after the womb hasn't risen to a comparable rate ... Yet.

Thanks. I'll share it with our boys this weekend. If they say anything relevant, I'll bring it up here next week. Just one question about data flow: Why isn't this sort of thing on scouting.org first?

Not advising a course, but from the vantage of complete ignorance ... Still use him. But now you have the advantage of hindsight to point out to boys the importance of self-evaluation. It sometimes takes years for a strong leader to face his/her own faults. The longer he/she waits, the harder it gets ... the worse the consequences for everyone around. Still, brutal honesty is the only way to open the door to redemption.

Rich, The thing is, councils take national's attempt to simplify things (like the tour plan instead of a goofy array of tour permits) and bludgeon volunteers with them (like attempting to require them for every gathering outside your regular place of business). The medical form is now a small novel. On the bright side, if one of our languages is ever lost to history, archaeologists will now be able to use it as a Rosetta stone. And everyone waves that insurance bogey man! Simple program changes can be stifling. An SM gets wind of boys planning to camp at Farmer Ben's, they already have someone who will take them in their land speeder and pick hem up after breakfast the next day. Rather than supporting them, he -- having never read an original handbook or looked on Kudu's site --requires them to have an adult present. No adult is available to go. Trip gets cancelled. The empire's hold on the galaxy strengthens. Okay, it's a stinky Star Wars analogy, but you get the picture.

Is every molester of young boys a perpetrator of having gay sex with young boys? Absolutely yes. Unless the perp is female. Which, I guess kinda makes Trev's point.