qwazse

Limbo was never church dogma. So there was nothing to eliminate. Ratzinger merely felt that the importance of baptism stood on its own merits without the need for limbo to motivate believers to baptize their infants. Others have disagreed.

Not much to add to this except: pick your battles. Boys (and most people) get overwhelmed with a laundry list of goals. Pick one thing, then at your conference ask "Hey, by next week [end of the month if you think it will need it] can I see you do more of X instead of Y?" This probably means you will see no more than a half dozen changes by the time your next election rolls around unless your really lucky and find the 'linchpin' that precipitates a flood of improvement. And, stand by your man. Your committee [possibly even some of your boys] may be impatient with him. Your reply "Well, the boys are now going to learn how to work under a less-than-qualified leader. Let's see how they step up." If you've got an ASM who is good with the nuturing and coaching, team up with him/her to back you up - especially if the boy sees himself as inferior. It'll be one thing if he hears it from you that he improved something. It will be another if your ASM sees it too.

The good news is you have a clear understanding of what is important to the committee. Remember they are your allies, and they are supposed to see things in the boy that you don't. So, really you all now have to feel like you can be a better team. Have the members of your committee been going to round-tables and other district meetings? Are they trained? Is there someone they trust who can give you all constructive feedback? On the boy's part, ask him what he thinks will help him to be a better scout: appealing the board's decision or working on a few of their suggestions? Let him know that you'll support him in watever he decides. If he chooses to work with the board, set a reasonable time-frame for the next BOR. This means you may need to set aside some time for some mini-SMC's each week, what he thinks are good answers to each of the board's issues. Be positive in all of this. Especially with the parents. Remind them we all have to work together. Frankly, when our board turned down my son (once and I forget for which rank, but it involved not having his book), I made it clear that the only option for him was to go back the next week looking sharper. Oh, and yes, our troop expects the boys as they advance in each rank to look sharper, say the oath and law in proper form, be able to express what those points mean more clearly, and give us a better evaluation of where he and the troop is going.

As always, it's the details that matter. Pappadady, is your council having family camp every week? Or, is it creating more weeks of family camp? Is there a week or two that are strictly cub camp? I would not have minded my daughter in camp. She camps with us a lot. But for it to really work, I would have wanted a female den chief for all of the sisters.

You omitted a third option. A national policy that requires units to present homosexuality as an example of morally straight to all of our you.

Okay. Here's the deal. If I am "not allowed to create this post" don't tell me after you give me a "Post Reply" button and a box to write some text! Anyway here's the reply that I wanted to write in "New to Forum!" Hi KM! I'm a tent stake guy too, although I operate with a hand ax and whever branch there is to spare in the axe yard. It kinda freaks a few boys out when I knock out a set of pegs faster than they can place an order with their i-thingies. However, I wouldn't take it up as a proffession. Margins are slim, and the patent office won't honor my claim, so the boys wind up cranking out knock-offs instead of buying me ice-cream for a custom set!

I'm getting logged off randomly. The page just refreshed while I'm typing a post (I think because Guy's post came in), and erased a post. I'm felling a whole lot of postmodern dystopia right now!

Tried to post a reply to Bearclaws topic, got a JSON paste error, so here's that reply ... We are strong on boy-led, weak on patrol method so take our example for what it's worth. We don't say no to the boys when it comes to program. So, if they want to try an MB class, we do it. When they are sick of MB classes, we stop. If they would like a completion, we plan one, if not we don't. Advancement is not a priority, skills are. So, for example, SM brings in a couple of spars, pulls out some sweatshirts from the lost and found, and says "Make a stretcher, go!". While he's giving a boy a conference, and right when the other boys think they've done all they can with the task, a step in and ask some leading questions like "Can you move the biggest guy in the toop with this thing? How far? When would you use a two-man carry?". So we go through a lot of design, implement, evaluate cycles.

I'm still having a problem wi posting in other forums, so no I haven't bothered with sticky whatever's. Anybody else get JSON errors when ey click the "Post" button?

I posted my reply under the debugging thread because it gave me an error when I tried to post here.

I got the error again after two successful post. It said JSON ... Illegal character. I'll try to paste here and see if I can replicate it: I tried to reply earlier, but got an error that seems to be fixed (for the moment). BD - some boys take more pride in these particular awards than Eagle scout or venturing Silver. Drives parents nuts. Gives me the giggles. Emom - The answer is really "sometimes yes, sometimes no." It depends on how much the boy was in control of the float plan. Or how involved he was in arranging the provisions for the unit. At most HA bases, which are really training facilities, the answer is "not much." So I wouldn't double count. Here's an example from some boys who never bothered to apply for the award: the first time they went to Philmont they loved it, and hiked a lot, but there was a lot of spoon-feeding to get them to that ability level. I would have counted it once. The second time, they were more intentional, chose their adventure (one of the toughest hike plans) during troop meetings where some of the younger boys could look over their shoulder and see how to do it, arranged food swaps on their arrival to provision to their satisifaction, hiked their little hearts out, and gave the adults a run for their money. I would have counted that twice. Same applies to Seabase vs. a sailing trip. In fact on our last trip, for some youth in the same boat, it would count twice, for others it would count once. Why? For some it was about the sailing. For others and their life centered on the ship and working with the captain to drive the biggest boat in their life to date. For others, it was about hopping to the next island and touring and stopping at each resort and trying their local flavor ice-cream. The other factor is how much the trip translates into the life of the unit. If a boy only does 18 miles, but did so to accomodate the needs of his patrol, or to get to a particular "sweet spot" on a map, or because the river simply wasn't any longer, then I'd let him count it if he asked. That may sound like I'm "tweaking" the requirements unfairly. But I'm trying to stick to the spirit of the award. Usually, when a youth asks me about this stuff, I'll ask them "What would make you proudest?" That changes the process from "rubber stamping" to actually working with youth.

I was going to reply to my last post with "odd, it just worked", but it said I wasn't allowed to post a reply fo 30 seconds. I guess that's one way of preventing double posts. Another way would be to compare text between the previous post and the incoming one, and only send a warning if they match. So, if this takes my reply, I'm going to try and respond ot MomToEli's pleasant little topic.

I'd try to post, but keep getting this weird JSON error.

The recent activity tab doesn't seem to show all new posts, just new topics. Advanced Search from yesterday sorted by date - updated gets a lot more hits. Seems to work almost like the old one-click link.

So, DS, are you saying we should paint our Eagles yellow?

It's a little bit stupid. But not as stupid as changing the total count of MB's required. Tampa, let your boy take the MB when it suits him. It's just a bookkeeping thing. Come Jan 1, there will be one too many spaces in his book for elective MBs and one too few spaces for required MBs. He can fix that with two strokes of a pen. It's just like now when a First Class scout earns his first 6 MBs are all from the required list. We have him fill in the six MBs on his Star page, write "(required)" by the last two, and scratch the "(required)" from two of the blanks on his Eagle page.

Here's how I think you should help a boy manage things in his book: For now it goes in a non-required slot. Probably, since 2C's scout sounds like he has all of his electives for Star, he should write it in on the page for Life electives. Next year, or whenever he goes for his bird, it will count as a required badge. All he'll have to do is jot "required" beside the line where he recorded that badge. He still earned it, it still counts for something. It's just at the end of the year it will count in a different way.

Walking tacos, line up on a table in separate bowls: Corn chips in single serving bags (a.k.a. Fritos) Spoons (It's up to you if you use disposables or durable cups and spoons.) Taco filling (ground beef, cooked drained and refried with chili powder, parpika, ground red pepper, salt, etc ... or your favorite pre-made mix.) Grated Cheeze Grated lettuce Chopped Green Onions Chopped black olives Sour cream. You get the idea ... Everyone line up. Each person grabs a bag, opens it, grabs a spoon, inserts their preferred ingredients, eats. Sitting down is optional. Serve cookies after everyone has had the main course! Only give them to guests who return their empty bag & spoon.

From an Eagle who has developed a penchant for cussing ... I made a pact with my youth, they have the right to call me on every offense just as I presume I have the right to call them. Humility stings, but it helps. Regarding those speeches that point out the "bad" Eagles. Why are they pointing it out? Why don't they also point out the "bad" Tenderfoots, Football Captains who never were in scouts, non-scout class presidents, etc ...? Because these speakers have already "marked" Eagles for something more noble. Getting an award like this doesn't make you a saint. It just makes people expect more of you -- sometimes more than you can possibly give. So, if an Eagle's wasting in jail, he's still expected to dust himself off and somehow make life a little more tolerable for his cellmates and the guards and the wardens. If he's angry with the school or mayor or governor or president, he's still expected to dig deep and express himself courteously. If he's gawking at someone else's spouse, he's expected to snap out of it and direct his attention elsewhere. If he can't do it on his own he has to hunt down the pastor or counselor or group of guys who will help him or otherwise wrestle with his Maker until he does it anyway. The badge won't help him do that. But the expectations that people have of him might.

A Centennial Unit patch? Well, whatever. I think the boy should do his best, tidy up us uniform, and ask the SM for an expedited conference and BOR since it sounds like some adult is bypassing the wishes of his SPL. If there's a patch I'd like a boy to wear, I'd let him know, but wouldn't halt his advancement. You know what? I have yet to meet a boy who didn't get it right for his next rank. I would try to get a one-on-one with this adult and tell him from your end of things, he is adding to the requirements and needs to lighten up. Do it over coffee and keep the lawyers out of it. (No offense, Beaver.)

Cubs is tougher because you don't have as many campfires to hash these things out.

Wow! Overthink much? I suspect what we do with any particular membership application will depend on our CO. Like I said in an earlier thread, I'd like our COR to be on the lookout for gossipers and backbiters. They do the most harm to our boys. On the last two issues. I will have to practice holding back a slap the minute a boy in my crew asks "So, does this mean I can bunk with the ladies?" (It's gonna happen, I'm just writing it here as proof in case the scout thinks he's being original.) On sexuality in general: It often comes up with my older venturers. In general I try to direct them to their families, but sometimes it's down to me, and we have a frank conversation, that includes a "do what your religion commands, and do it in a way that is trustworthy, loyal, helpful ..." On sexuality in specific: Our boys don't want to hear about this issue. They are feeling the brunt of decisions made by parents on their behalf about problems that may be foreign to them. They may have friends that have called them "haters" when in fact they would be courteous and kind where their friends would jump at the chance to pummel the odd duck. In short, we go back to the 70s.

Sorry, can't get past being absolutely right

pc, Although I'm of the ilk who think that constraining one's sexual persuasions is good for soul and body, I'm fairly neutral about the national BSA pronouncement. Mainly, because I was a scout before the explicit ban and there were plenty of other forms of expression efficiently chipping away at our collective morality. Frankly, when harm was done to my units, it came from backbiters and gossipers. (You know, the "we need to pray for so-and-so" types.) I would have been been better served by a national ban on those folks. I think the local option will not be satisfactory. Parties on both sides want the BSA to be a conduit for disseminating their practice of morality. The anti-homosexual movement had their way for a few decades (longer than Cromwell's parliament -- to their credit), now that the pendulum is swinging the other way they probably fear that if they exclude a nice homosexual couple, other CO's will push for a national non-discrimination statement on the aggrieved party's behalf. It would be nice if they could do it quietly, however. As my SPL put it: "I'm just sick of hearing about it. All I want to do is hike and camp."(This message has been edited by qwazse)

A. I would never disrespect a blue loop, but if you feel it matters that's okay. E. how bout "Without vision the people perish"? You might want to have a backup in case a group of SMs walked in with whit canes! I think you're covering most of the bases.