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Well, pardon me for mentioning their sex! But, the two scout dads weren't cleaning my cookery.

Problem is His great affection for pipsqueaks! Half the Psalms are the writer wondering when He's gonna stop putting up with our crap. And (for you "Goddess" fans), I'm using "His" and "He" in the gender-neutral form originally intended (a la "mother hen gathering her chicks" style).

I think you meant assault on "God". The sad part about this is if a kid thinks a particular stone is his salvation and is not disparaging his buddy's devotion to Allah, I'd count it as reverent. If he acted in a way that treated that rock as supreme (even if it was a lady rock ), I'd count it as fulfilling his duty to God. I'd expect a little more sophistication from adults, but not much. And, that's how I've seen it played out by scouters in my neck of the woods.

What BD said. But regarding your "oops I'm in the water" scenario: NEVER GO AFTER A SNAG IN UNFAMILIAR WATER!!!!! (That includes suspending one's self on an outstretched log.) The three alternatives: Reach, Throw, and Row. If they don't have a life vest on DO NOT GO even if we're talking about somebody's heirloom lure (which we probably aren't) just tell gramps that you handed it down to posterity. Pound that into the boys' heads. Stupid happens fast. The buddy system works best at the prevention stage. At the intervention stage: not so much.

" Surely you don't keep everything under a bush in the woods. " Really haven't seen many Arthurian legend movies, have you? Disclosed locations were problematic to druids. Worse for wiccans --ever since Grim & Co. sued for fire safety violations on behalf of Hanzel and Gretels' parents.

Our SE pointed out a few years ago, "venturers (and many troops) look in the back of Scouter and Boys Life for camps outside their own council, let our reservation be one of those camps." Now, our boys love going to their council camp. Never could get them to think differently. Fine. But they know I'd slap them silly if they disrespected a boy who went out-of-council to summer camp.

Jack Handy (probably one of his *Deep Thoughts*)

I thought K was referring to the scout (one of two) he actually had to deal with, not mine who I never met (who, by the way, I have yet to hear from).

Our scouts don't suffer fools, so we've had no problem 1. Our advancement program is "1st class when you're a 1st class scout." We're fine if that takes you 4 years. 2. We camp in a few challenging locations. If all you do is the "car campouts" you won't rack up the nights. 3. We discuss the qualifications for OA on night 2 of summer camp. Elections the next day. The younger scouts will have had 48 hours of data before they cast a ballot. It works for us. Some boys have taken 4 elections. By then they have worked on 4 different character flaws. Younger 1st class scouts get that this is no cupcake walk, and sometimes will ask to not be on the ballot. However, this does not guarantee that a boy would be a good arrow man. Life is busy, and these guys have no clue how hard it will be to dedicate time to the order.

s99, since I wasn't sure if there was something in the text causing the error, I pasted my reply in debugging. It stuck. Trust me, I spared all you debuggers lots of other rejected messages after that. You're welcome.

So the servers working now? Here's my original reply [cut and pasted from "Debugging "]... The by-laws are easily found here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/...AndBylaws.aspx They seem pretty unambiguous to me: "God" being a surrogate for the wordy "prime mover, who may be known or unknown to us mere mortals" or whatever the missionaries to the Celts were trying to use to communicate what they were trying to say about the Semitic deity adopted by the Roman empire. I'm not sure how this is distinguished from "Supreme being", as the notion of "God" in the original language, although not Semitic, conveyed every notion of supremacy, perhaps more than even the Latin "Deus".

I guess Merriam Webster & Co. wasn't one of those?

First, congratulations, Mom! And thanks for all the hard work. Second, advisor's wife, eh? I'm so very sorry. Third, our boys generally prefer to say the oath and law as a group. Most boys do the eagle charge, along with all other eagles in the audience, who are asked to come stand behind the boy. Forth, our community is pretty much white-bread suburban, so I tell my boys that they'd better give their moms more than that fleeting peck on the cheek that those pathetic WASP's pass for kiss!

I tried to comment on DWise1_AOL's post in the "Non-sectarian" thread, it threw an error, I logged off and back on, now I can't find the thread! I'm on the verge of taking the name of someone's supreme being in vain.

Most? Really? How do you know there weren't dozens of replies to this fine scouter, but only yours got through?

Yep, tried to post a reply to DWise1_AOL's post that Pack fed through: The by-laws are easily found here: http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/GuideToAdvancement/Appendix/CharterAndBylaws.aspx They seem pretty unambiguous to me: "God" being a surrogate for the wordy "prime mover, who may be known or unknown to us mere mortals" or whatever the missionaries to the Celts were trying to use to communicate what they were trying to say about the Semitic deity adopted by the Roman empire. I'm not sure how this is distinguished from "Supreme being", as the notion of "God" in the original language, although not Semitic, conveyed every notion of supremacy, perhaps more than even the Latin "Deus".

Lest we hear groans of "Oh no, not again!" from senior members, let me refer you to: http://www.scouter.com/forum/open-discussion-program/6952-to-edge-or-not-to-edge http://old.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=312067&p=1 http://old.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=311705&p=1 http://www.scouter.com/forum/working-with-kids/9559-wanted-scholarly-articles-on-edge FWIW, although I think EDGE is an abysmal rubric for kids (especially those with English as a second language), when my SM wanted to waste a meeting on it, I granted him that with absolutely no complaint. I suggest FrugalProf go and do likewise.

I think SN hit the nail on the head. Parents need to show solidarity and respect. For some folks that does not come easy. (I hate pulling the suburban middle class card, but I am afraid it applies to that demographic more often than not.) Smoort has been shoveled a heavy dose of disrespect. The moms might not feel that way, but nothing hurts an Eagle scout's feelings more than a bunch of people saying "Yeah, sure you can set up a camping agenda, but don't expect all of us to sign on!" So then everything else, ... the cookie sales, the camps they go to, etc ... becomes colored by that experience. Now granted, when one of my venturers called for a day at the spa during a brainstorming session, I "deep six-ed" that card after the meeting. But if she would have continued to be enthusiastic about it, promoted its benefits, made it cost-effective, and brought others on board, I would have knuckled under and got that pedicure with the rest of the crew. That's kind of the point, the Good Book says we should be encouraging one another into "love and good deeds." When that happens in scouting, it infects the next generation. When it doesn't, the kids see the parents' frustration and won't have anything else to do with it.

I should have replied earlier: 1. Thank the SM for not wasting the boys' precious time learning the false religion of EDGE. 2. Congratulate the SM for letting the boys endure a bit of the standard chaos of boy-led units. 3. Get him the district award of merit for thinking up the dish washing method as an applied leadership skill. Otherwise, follow BD's advise (it might have been to Christian of him omitting all of the expletives that may have been in the subtext of his reply).

Click on today's topics: Invalid response. Cling on issues & politics: no items found. I could go on and on. I am not sure that all of the supposed features of vBulletin are worth the amount of failures to display the data that people want to see.

It looks like it took (twice), but my reply in that forum did not work.

Now, why can I post here without any errors being thrown in my face?

I wanted to reply to AZOw's post: Agreed. Matthew 19 is pretty clear that the only sexual expressions Jesus approved of were heterosexual marriage, celibacy, or voluntary castration. Diminishing Pauline statements will get you nowhere since Paul's authority was sanctioned by the risen Christ and St. Peter. Don't ask a fundamentalist to discount scripture. You're better off affirming his view and admitting that we are all caught up in a culture war. I would suggest that by dismissing an entire unit of boys, his congregation is demoralizing boys who would rather not be forced to declare their sexuality. They would rather just hike and camp (maybe fish). Then ask if he can find room in his heart for just one more kind of sinner or publican?

But, BP, when I was making tiramisu for our desert when during our patrol dinner, it was incredible! As soon as I emptied a bowl, before I could turn around to look for it, those cub moms had it cleaned, dried, and ready to use for the next step (of which there were many).

Last night, I went to an Eagle court of honor of a boy whose troop is sponsored out of the Catholic church. Talked to the priest about being a scout in his country (Vietnam, in the '60s) -- the boys got some very impressive wilderness training. Point being, the parishioners worked hard to get their troop off the ground, the new membership policy is not going to stand in their way of keeping it going.