qwazse

Yes, generally a win-win. On the venturing side, it's almost essential because often you don't have the numbers from your own crew to meet minimums for a particular activity. You can find yourself on a peak or over a reef with mates you just met the day you set out. Falls under "a scout is friendly." One caveat (and I'm especially careful about this in the Troop/Crew scenario): clear it with the boy's SM, especially if he's older. Active boys like this soon become very skilled and hold PORs, but they often can ignore their troop's agenda for something exciting that their buddies in the other unit are doing. You want them to check in before they check out! Falls under "a scout is loyal."

I define age in terms of camping nights, not years since birth. I take "he" to be generic. Not limited to teaching boys. Just like when I see scouts and venturers together, I say "Hi Scouts." period. The ability to be a first class scout and the right to have a patch on a pocket are two different things. So if, for example, a girl knows a first class skill she is prepared to meet the requirement -- even if she doesn't qualify for the patch. Bottom line: a life scout is one who shows scout spirit by conferring skills on those who have yet to obtain them. If he's doing that, he gets the sign-off. High speed - low drag would be a venturer finding a tenderfoot, walking the poor kid through that hideous acronym, dragging him in front of the SM with some "there I fixed it" attitude, and requesting a note to take back to me ... all while we have three crew members who have never donned a backpack in their life and are intimidated about the next 2 day hike! Guess what letter is going into the fire as soon as that supposed star scout teaches those three to light it with flint and steel? I suppose there's a reason why scouts haven't ditched the troop to earn their upper ranks with my crew. Oh, and for the love of all that is right and holy, please nobody call National about this! >:

The blog post that hasn't gotten any traction so far this month: http://scout-wire.org/2013/10/04/chiefs-corner-taking-scouting-to-the-inner-city/ On the other hand, all those reckless untucked scouters are catching heat for their slovenly ways. #firstworldprobelms (Yes I know this site doesn't do hashtags, but if does in the future, I'll be ready!)

I am not a "switcher" in most areas of life, and probably would not be in this one. Instead of WB, I'd look for Powderhorn, but that's just me. And, maybe it's because I took WB but not PH ... yet. But, any boy with an opportunity to camp with another troop is in a win-win situation. He gets to learn how other patrols do things and maybe that will inform on what he expects from his patrol (whichever one that winds up being). FWIW, our IH's boy goes to a different troop and is doing well there.

What if there ain't a crew member needing to learn anything....Are there Many Venture Crew Members joining from outside of Scouting? Round here, most definitely. From the council/area meetings I've attended, 'bout half of the Venturers had never been in BSA, and half of those have never been in another scouting-type organization (like GSUSA, Campfire, or Indian guides) during their junior high years. About 1/8 of my crew have never slept under a tent before joining, almost 3/4 have never slept under the stars or even seen anyone else do it. It's a constant challenge getting everyone up to speed. But if the youth are committed to each other, they will do it. So, this requirement is pretty much the mode of operation in a typical crew.

Sounds like proper high adventure. Only your best trained boys qualify. So, qualify them all! Train them to camp in groups of 4, 100 yards apart. Adults in the center campsite. Say you have 6 boys, 2 adults. The less seasoned scouts hike with the 2 adults. The 4 first class scouts (true sense of the word, not just a patch) on their own. Both groups make for adjacent sites, but using different routes. Groups check in via radio, or better yet, appropriate trail signs, at the crossing for the nearest camp. Now I really want to go! Maybe I'll talk with my troop about it this weekend when Son #2 and I rendevous with them on the North Country Trail.

Well, boys are not flies, and girls are not honey. But fellowship is a key component. (Like I said, I remember my OA literature encouraging co-ed activities on some level.) I could envision a few venturers starting a society of honored campers from all outdoor organizations (girl scouts, boy scouts, campfire USA, BPSA). It's just what they do. Would it gain momentum? I doubt it. They would have to be a uniquely cohesive and charismatic group of youth. (What you're observing, JP, is not being replicated widely.) But for the OA, the question becomes "Do you want to attract that uniquely cohesive and charismatic group?" Right now the answer is "No." And as long as scouting movements in the USA remain starkly unisex, that answer may fly.

Pack meetings, maybe. Den meetings, no (unless it was an achievement involving cooking or nutritious snacks.) But do advise the Pack that they are allowed to set their own boundaries on this. For the sake of his development, ask the DE if he checked with the Packs before making a blanket statement.

If you're seriously considering this troop, you may want to eventually talk to the SM about what you saw. But, yes, older boys get a longer leash. We don't want an SPL to feel defeated by an adult who constantly intervenes. And the impertinent scouts tend to be "long term projects"! After some meetings, I'll remind an SPL near the end of his rope that next time he can feel free to ask an impertinent scout attend an impromptu conference with the SM or me. Under the category of "could be worse" ... I have had to intervene on SPL and scout who were coming to blows. Came out of nowhere because most days those two were friends. Fortunately the rest of the troop had just rushed off to do another activity. (Maybe that's why the younger one thought he could keep pushing it.)

Firstly, I'll sign it most strongly if he doesn't use EDGE, but let me get off of my high horse ... If you camp a lot with another troop, he might want to touch base with that SM/SPL to see if there is anything specific that one of his boys might need help with. Otherwise, I would ask him to pick a skill that another member of the crew seems to be weak on, but it would really help your program if everyone had it down. (If your crew, for example, is really into climbing/rapelling, it might be handy if everyone was solid with figure eight knots on a bight.) Because venturers come with very diverse skills, I wouldn't worry if the person was a younger or older person. I've had 20-year-olds sign on who never camped a day in their life. (And obviously, by the way I worded it, I don't think "Scout" need be limited to boy or girl.) If you have a scout who is a natural teacher (likely if the scout took a while to get to Star), and have seen him do this thing in one context or another, rather than asking him to repeat for the sake of signature, I would suggest you take the time to sit and ask what he's taught recently to whom, and how it worked (or didn't). Ask him if anything in the description of EDGE was omitted from what he did, and if adding it would have helped. Conversely was there something in what he did that didn't fit the EDGE rubic, and did it distract from his student's learning the skill, or did it add to it? Then ... after this discussion ... you and he can come to an agreement as to if and how he should practice the requirement again. In other words, adapt the requirement to the maturity of the scout and the needs of his peers.

Then they're already several decades out of date Arguing that you use the inspection sheet and that's enough is not an argument against changes in uniform policy, since the inspection sheet you use now is different than the one that was used before it. The uniform inspection sheet already goes into minutiae like "the top button is never buttoned" and the insignia guide already goes into the over/under neckerchief question. It already addresses personal issues like combed hair. So if your vaunted inspection sheet already addresses minutiae, then you don't have a leg to stand on in using it to argue against tucked in shirts. What this boils down to is innate differences between how the sexes operate. Men gravitate toward abstract notions of justice (policies that apply equally across the board) while women focus on individual circumstance (but I'm a special snowflake). BSA could hire Michael Kors to design the best darn female uniform shirt on the planet and if he designed it to be tucked, there would be many women who still wouldn't tuck it, and if he designed it to be untucked, there would be many who would tuck it anyway. On top of this psychological difference you add in post-modern fluff like "I want to feel beautiful and confident" and "my body is so strange that I need a custom uniform" and there's your herd of cats. The most annoying patch policeman I know manages to annoy someone in our troop at least once a month, and I can't imagine even him bothering a woman under the special circumstances they keep bringing up because that's exactly what they are, special circumstances and people recognize/understand that. The other 99.99% of the time, a policy is a policy. And, like you said, they're the ones that asked. Not LITERALLY the same one. Every sheet I've seen has the drawing of a boy with the shirt tucked in. So, if the SPL asks you, give him the sheet and say "what do you think?" I don't mind having SPL's get together and hash out where one or the other as "drifted" a little from standard. I just don't like the thought of someone coming down on a group of boys who actually made an effort to be uniform and still look sharp even if we can't see their belt buckles. Among scouters, this kind of stuff is fine to hash out on blogs like these, but to have an edict from National is just not worth the extra $9/year that I'm gonna be paying. I personally appreciate the folks who've corrected my insignia placement over the years. In fact, I got one knot that was missewn as a granny, and the guy who tried to help me orient it and I had a laugh when we realized it, the DE was gonna get me a replacement, but I said "No Way! I want to spend my life looking for the other scouters with the same second on their shirt!"

Hey, I thought I was a RA RA scouter! I cheer scouts when they look at the inspection sheet (the same one I used many decades ago) and make their own decisions. I reserve flowers and imported chocolate for moms who care for our boys (whose hips the chumps on Fashion Star would never dare put in any BSA uni). I make the best coffee in the world for guys who forgo that much-needed overtime to haul gear and boys and camp us. (And I pack some Earl Grey for the weak-stomached.) I revere the woman who will gently teach females youth about backpacking hygiene so they get the courage to set aside all those H&BA for a few days to discover the Beautiful, so that the next time they are in church, those songs actually have the grand meaning they deserve. I respect anyone with the stones to say, "We don't need to waste National's ink for this. Let's use what's already written, and work the program from there." Pardon me, if I don't join in helping the log-eyed pull motes.

You misunderstand. Designated campsites in the same acre do not exist in middle of wilderness recreation areas. You might find a campground on the periphery, but once you hike in, even 20 folks moving and camping in the vicinity of one another can be profoundly destructive. At high altitudes (or deserts, or coral reefs) like Brew describes, contingents of 10 leave an indelible mark.

The separate-but-equal argument is as noble and time-proven as BP's "partial participation" argument is linear.

Maybe I'm looking at the world all wrong. Leader stays at the rear. Gives guidance as to the next landmark and has scouts take turns advancing to the fore and reporting back their observations. At decision points, the leader has the contingent circle-up around the map and compass and develops a plan for the next few waypoints.

Don't remember it, and probably wouldn't countenance it if I heard it. Can't imagine our course director saying anything of the sort.

Different itineraries. Since I work from the venturing side of things, I call them contingents rather than patrols. But, same principle. I did one where a boy planned an outing for 40 people. (Four contingents of ten.) We actually had slightly less than that, but that's what we planned for. Morning of insertion, each contingent's navigator(s) reported to me with their itinerary, described their target camp for the night, indicated their intended direction. (This was very important because we drove up the night before and were all camped 1/4 mile of the trailhead(s). It even took me a while to get my head around the fact that our position didn't jib with where I thought I was in my head.) They also confirmed their return time for the next day. Next year, same boy planned one with contingents inserting from different ends of the same trail and crossing at some point. Drivers would exchange keys for vehicles. We had lower attendance than expected, so we never implemented it. But seemed like a good plan to me.

Advancement has a different meaning in Boy Scouts and Cub Scouts. If you want to really see different, check out Venturing's awards and recognition system (the term "advancement" is only used by folks outside of the program), which most Venturers across the country completely ignore -- so much so, that BSA is attempting to completely re-vamp it.

This warms my heart on so many levels! Let me point out that our Czech counterparts would have zero adults (maybe one SM, but unlikely) on such a hike. The 17-19 y.o. den leaders (at least one young man and one young lady -- remember the organization is co-ed from grade-school up) would be guiding the cubs. They will have submitted their plan to their SPL equivalent, who in turn would have asked the SM to review it. The SM may suggest other scouts be at key points on the trail and/or contact him if anyone misses check-in times. At least that's what I've inferred from the description of a couple of boys (expat Yanks) who were brought up in that program. Now I'm not entirely sure if the CR has anything comparable to the AT, and a six mile overshoot is on the high side but easy enough to do. (I let our crew do just that at Dolly Sods last year. My avatar is a NASA composite of our location that evening -- our site was one dark 1/2 pixel south of our target dark pixel. ) But, I'm saying that adults' nitpicking is controlled because THEY AREN'T THERE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT EVERY FOIBLE.

This is how I'm solving the problem ... I encourage qualified youth to hike and camp with a small group of buddies independent of adults. That way, from when they are in their twenties, they will have built the confidence they need to lead other youth through serious terrain for days on end. That way, when my flesh diminishes (in just a few decades ) there will be a massive movement of youth to carry on, while I sit back with the BSA perpetual new scout patrols and show them how to use a hatchet to fabricate tent pegs. I might even market the concept (how does "Qwazse contingent" sound?).

We are already down to 2 trout/week due to these streams filled with stock spawned in Mercury laden waters.

A good denner will help you assign duties (who leads pledge, who does color guard, etc ...) No, you don't have to buy the denner's chord. If other dens aren't using them there's no reason for you to. No it's not required for Webelos. Here's the wiki... http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Denner

It's not so much the weight for an 11 y.o. as it is the comfort with the gear and cohesiveness of the patrol. You don't buy a pack on Monday for a major hike on Friday, unless your team is very good at spotting when that bottle is about to fall out, or a strap is coming undone, etc ... A good backpacking contingent has at least two mechanics, two navigators, two cooks, and two really good story tellers. We tend not to do more than 6 miles with crossovers unless they've been hiking with their gear a mile or so for a couple different weekends. BUT, if we see an exceptional patrol of boys who consistently work well with each other, we may reconsider. (Even then we make sure the patrol has a "plan B" if it looks like their newbie is only good for 4 miles. Older boys have to be prepared to carry extra gear.)

All boys are different, but given the way the COs in your stake have been managing the program, your candidate DC's may not know what to expect in your den. The troop's SM and SPL should recommend the boys who would make good DC's (typically most 1st class scouts -- in the true sense of the word -- who also have demonstrated some ability to nurture younger scouts). They probably already know that DC could be used as a POR, but in all likelihood, there are plenty of other PORs available to them. What a candidate DC needs to know: When and where the den meets, usually. When and where the pack meets. The activities you will be working on. What scout skills the boys really need help with. Dates of weekend outings. Summer camp dates. If his fees will be paid if he goes. (By the way, for resident camp, DCs are definitely worth the investment!) Any religious issues if you are talking to non-LDS troops. (I don't think there should be any, but sometimes folks need to know that your are a mom asking for a little help not a missionary trying to convert -- unless your are .)

I understand what you are saying. I think rather than 1 & 2 I might go with Red Wolves & Grey Wolves. This way they can make a Den Flag, etc. and have something visible to relate to instead of just a number. As for competition causing resentment, I disagree with that. I'm of the belief that competition is healthy for growth. (Just my humble opinion) I like the idea of the den flag. Something the boys can rally around -- especially if they are sharing facilities on the same night. I'd still use the #s so they can put something on their uniforms. Pin the # to the flag just to make it clear which is which. Everything at this age is a balance. Get feedback from the den leaders, and do whatever they're okay with.