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Oh, on a really good day, my money's on the DL's not noticing! Ideally, Stosh would have an CC or ASM herd the parents away for about a 30 minute Q&A starting with "So, what have your boys liked about scouting so fay?", describing Stosh's credentials and his vision for scouting, and ending with "Well, I guess we'd better go make sure the boys haven't tied our SM to a tree!" But, that only postpones the inevitable discovery of which adults want "a hand on the tiller." Sometimes it's good to know who these folks are sooner rather than later. I.e., watching your slow-motion train wreck beats seeing it in real time! Finally, Stosh, I think you should help your scout send a follow-up note to the Den(s) thanking them for their visit and hoping that whatever troop they choose, their scouting experience will be awesome (although he knows it will be more awesome with troop ___)!

I remember that feeling when one of our Eagle candidates got busted trying to skate by on fudged Personal Management work. It's not fun. Telling him he needed to come clean with his fellow scouts that he didn't make it wasn't fun either. Downstream ... on the flip side, that young man now trusts us for honest answers to life's questions. Still, I wish he would have stepped to and never had to learn that the hard way.

Hate to say this, but looks like you're making a phone call. Sometimes the guys in the trenches gotta train the counselor. After all, there's no way in the real world any bank would hire a person or firm to produce bogus reports on their assets and liabilities. Oh, wait ...

Great Advice lets give people reasons not to join Boy Scouts and give another option where Families can spend what few chances they have to spend time together. Since Boy Scouts is about Youth unless it is Female youth then they don't matter Grade-school female siblings, I'm kinda okay with. Half of my boy scouts scream like girls anyway. But my ulterior motive (if and when I allow them to participate in one of our activities with our parents) is to inspire moms to be the kinda GS leader that motivate their girls to enjoy "roughing it" so that a few years from now they will be Venturing ready. Jr. High ladies ... I'm in complete and utter terror of them. A lot of what I find myself doing with the boys the same age is unpacking the "Disney Drama" culture that is foisted on them at school. So, without moms or really insightful older sisters who can help work against the culture from the female side of things, I'm just this mean old man telling them to leave the H&BA behind and come out with me and some very strange moms who somehow aren't afraid to look like they've been dragged through yards of laurel thickets at the end of the day. Simply put, the BSA is not prepared to bring Jr. High youth of both sexes through that transition via outdoor methods. Until that is something that is valued across the USA (and I would argue that it is not, looking at our First Families going back many administrations), we troop leaders are better off introducing new parents to what we know works: giving boys the space to be boys while demanding a high level integrity from them.

God bless my wife! Mine, along with my pack and personal gear is at the ready across the floor from the foot of my bed. I encourage every one else to find a suitable nook in their room. Otherwise, they go on shelves or bins in the garage. (100+ year old houses are good for that sort of thing.)

The tree/shrub identification hike is sheer genius, Definitely leverage you science/tech DL. Also a group like what you describe would do well to meet your local game commissioner. A lot of science BTW requires some cube-dwelling. When I presented the scientist pin to Son#2's den, the one thing that they were very engaged with, was a 200 page binder of one analysis that I had just finished working on. (Think charts and graphs 'till you feel vertigo and you get the idea.) They ate up the idea that surveying thousands of kids just like them could result in a scatter plot where everybody was different, yet they showed a trend (or not, depending on the variables). My point is, that each parent and lots of folks in your community may have something to offer these boys, and you just don't know until you give them a try.

Much of my job as a statistician involves tutoring folks with varying levels of training in clinical research. I learned how to do much of what I do from literature a relative gave me on industrial training techniques. Then, I learned by doing and asking for very critical evaluations of my performance from people who I could trust to give me a straight answer. I have had no patience for the BSA materials because they are often too simplistic. Simply put, EDGE is inadequate. Our scouters would be much better served if the instructor provided them the reference and they went around in turn reading the material. (Some of them may be far better and engaging at reading out loud than the instructor. Regardless, our minds often "re attend" as soon as a new voice is heard - even if it's a voice asking to pass because they can't read well enough for the material.) Then the instructor provides some personal experience, or interpretation, or fields questions on the matter. This is, in rough form, how the West managed to drag itself out of the dark ages. That we think we can do much better by abandoning the most powerful of learning methods because the audience is adult, continues to stymie me.

I would find out who's instructing and ask them what the objectives of the course are. More than the $, what's a morning of your time worth? I'd rather be camping. Speaking of which, time to load up. See y'all.

It is hardest on the DL when they go their separate ways. On the other hand there will be a lot of campfires out there to which you may invite yourself!

A scout caught a nice size bass at camp this summer. He asked if I would help him cook it, and I said "Sure, here's my fillet knife..." I'll cherish that scowl forever. However; the boy sucked it up and prepared a couple of nice fillets as I talked him through cleaning it. I would prefer that boys read a guide before they go on their little expeditions (the PA fishing license code book comes with a nice set of instructions), so that they understand what they're getting into. But they rarely have patience for that sort of thing.

IMHO, the scout should report that he did not do any fundraising. Funds were provided by the beneficiary. How the beneficiary got those funds is immaterial to any work the boy did. In the process of announcing his project he informed any folks wanting to make donations to send funds directly to the beneficiary. As such, he is representing the beneficiary, not the BSA. The boy's leadership was shown in negotiating discounts for materials. Like Stosh, I direct boys to projects where minimum or no fundraising is involved. Most communities have a grant or two (from that 90% of taxpayer dollars that went to "non-essential" services ) that can pay for materials, but not labor.

Setting a snare is trapping, not hunting. Trapping was vital to some of my buddies college funds. Which reminds me of a t-shit my father-in-law and I wanted to produce to make sure boys could still maintain a profitable hobby: "Spare Roadkill. Wear Fur." But in general, we just have them set up traps and test tripping them with a thin stick. Here again, the ranger might have an opinion. He might not want any trap set for any longer than it takes to demonstrate and test. Or, on the other hand, there might be an infestation that the boys could try to help clear.

Note: that minimum is 5 paid youth. So, pay attention to multiple registrations. This is likely not the case with the troop your trying to help, but if there is a boy who is multiple registered with a venturing crew, you should make sure his primary membership is with the troop. (That is, of course assuming that the crew's membership has ample numbers of paid youth.)

True. This thread would have been so much more active if WCC would have said something like, "I'm retiring a unit if they don't boost their membership to 10 paid youth by the end of the year."

Thus sayeth the current paperwork... A CHARTERED ORGANIZATION The Chartered Organization selects one of its members to register as chartered organization representative who may also serve as chair or as unit committee member if needed. All units must have a unit leader and a minimum of five paid youth. If you "heard" something, please refer to the recent thread on false memories and oral histories. Give us a reference, please. That's how real scout skills are to be taught!

"we'll deal with that when we get there" Hey! Guess where we are! I get this from time to time at the venturing level. (Not every campsite is after miles of rocks and bogs, and some younger sibs are veritable "Venturers in Training.") In those situations, I insist that a parent (who isn't one of my designated adults for the trip) come along to attend to whatever needs the younger brother or sister might have. If you were to do something of the sort, for example, you would need a parent/guardian for your Webelo and another parent for little brother/sister(s). They would have to set their site up at some distance from the Webelos, and program doesn't stop just because the youngsters don't think it's fun anymore. If they are indeed good parents, they'll work with you on this.

... sunny day ... now that's funny.

Same story here. Definitely lackluster sales.

How is it any less work? Although the MB is required in Jan 2014, and the badge is slated for some revisions, the new book won't be out until mid year. The MB may be earned under old requirements until the end of 2014. On the flip side, if they THINK they are saving work by wrapping up early, there is no reason to let a partial linger by disavowing them of that notion.

My comment, Kathy, assumes that you have made a fair assessment of these boys' skills, that you are confident of their teaching ability, and that they may be known around the district for their skills as T2FC instructors. That's when the DE might help you get around that log-jam. This is not a matter of if they get trained. It's a matter of how they get trained. Your unit and the district may be better served if the boys go to a Powderhorn course, or COPE instructor course, or something else. But, keep in mind, they are adults. They should no longer be signing off on T2FC requirements. That's a job for PL and SPL. (Sure ASM's do it, but that's a worst case scenario, and the troop needs to change it's culture when that happens regularly.) As MBC they should only be signing blue cards for the badges they counsel.

He can lead a group prayer. He is not under the obligations of an agent of the state.

Not a problem in any case. Remind your leaders, however, that while they are assisting scouts, they should not be drinking alcohol.

Ask the DE to credit them as trained.

Sounds like fun - as long as none of your decoy items was a chain saw!

It sounds like you have unmotivated boys, plain and simple. It happens. Move on with the original schedule for your den. From time to time, remind them that they are one lanyard away from earning their craftsman. If either of them bring up wanting to do something else with their own resources, listen to their idea, and, if it's good, encourage them to do it at home and bring it to you at your next meeting. Chances are you will have other boys who fall behind in something else. Same procedure. This is good preparation for life as a scout. Your buddies will get skills on some things. You'll get skilled on others.