qwazse

So you still get to be SM? Or will you face off in a game of mumbly peg, loser getting the patch? Our troop absorbed a number of boys from adjacent neighborhoods ... mainly because they saw us as being more boy led. Most of us adults really enjoyed the new boys' company. Some of the adults were a little rough, but to complain would have been pots calling kettles black. Our established boys in the upper age range, however, were a little cliquish (stellar academic and athletic types). It took the younger siblings in both groups to really form a decent bond with one another. During all of this, some of the local adults went and spun off a new troops (technically, merged with a failing troop and relocated it to a different CO), and one adult went from there to spin off a third troop. Lots of reasons for that, but my point is that everyone might like the way you operate "on paper," but a point may come a year or two down the road where there are just too many chefs in one kitchen!

When you have a vehicle crash on the way to camp leaving one family mourning, and four others trying to get counseling for PTSD for their kids and their health insurance giving them a runaround. Those pro's who seem rather quiet at roundtables or wherever you may see them ... they sure know how to fast-track care for your boys. Or a less dramatic example, maybe not relevant to leaders of packs or troops: when kids from your crew volunteer as officers at a council level. the council pro that comes along side them and helps them put together some unique council-wide programs ... he/she will make connections that you have no clue about.

Not really. Many of the scouters in our neighborhood are on local park boards. They help parks think "out of the box" and apply for grants and such to develop conservation areas. Some years all of our eagle candidates may choose a project from a single park, and each boys' projects within a park tends to be completely different from the other. Creativity actually increases because the boys are looking to enhance unique aspects of the park.

Sorry to hear that. I hope you have a chance to explain to parents how their boy (by not collecting the signatures in his book) may be losing a keepsake they'll cherish years later. But, it should be no bother to those "tiger parents" if you focus your agenda on those few boys who are plodding through in a less supervised way. I would also suggest you give those further advanced boys the benefit of the doubt in case one or two of them are high achievers (and not really helicoptered) by asking them to lead an activity they already got signed off. For example, if they know their knots, have them teach them to the other boys. I had a similar experience with teaching Sunday school once. A few 4th-6th grade girls from Christian schools would be in a huff that they already knew the story. It was becoming a weekly rant. So, I showed them the syllabus for the next lesson and asked them if they knew that one too. They did. I handed them the teachers' guide and asked if they would teach next week. One of them said she would and (with a little help from mom during the week and me with discipline during the class) wound up doing a fine job. Then I started freely offering the opportunity to teach to any child who seemed like they wanted to give it a try. It did a lot to improve the fellowship among those kids (and myself).

Well, I'm personally proud of you for trying to push the church rules as far as you can. But, at the same time, you can't outpace a bishop who is stickler for protocol. Just like the LDS allows someone other than the 11-year-old's dad to be with him on a weekend campout, it does not allow him to camp for a week long! So, if you are going to call on rules when they permit you to do something, you're kinda obliged to stick to them when they restrict you. Maybe the boys can approach the bishop with a plan for what they'd like to do. Maybe not summer camp, but a weekend here and there, and some service projects, Scout Sunday, visit a mission or whatever. Maybe not advance to First Class, but maybe Tenderfoot at least do some of the activities outlined in the trail to first class. Maybe the bishop would be willing to be the "community leader" that helps the boys go over their rights and responsibilities as a US citizen. Then maybe your dad can still take a few days off and make it a special time with his grandson. Just because he's not scouting, doesn't mean he can't have fun.

What I did was start a Venturing crew and held the line about putting responsibility in the youths' hands. (The first year, I had to shoo "helpful" adults away, saying they were consultants and were to do *nothing* unless explicitly asked to do so by a youth.) This gave son #1 and his buddies an outlet while still contributing to the troop. My daughter was next in line and took advantage of unique opportunities not available in Girl Scouts. Meanwhile, the troop began putting more responsibility on the boys. (Caveat: leaders who did not like this style spun off their own troop.) Now Son #2 is crew president and SPL of a smaller troop of boys who honestly love each other and in whom I take a tremendous amount of pride. (Well ... there is that fire-bug thing, but I've said my peace and they are slowly coming around.) So I would talk to your two older boys and ask them if they would like to start something that "fills in the gaps" in the troop schedule for them and their friends. Then give your DE a call to see if there is an organization out there thinking of chartering a crew. (You could also talk to your troops' CO, but that all depends on where the "good 'ol boy" vibe is coming from.) I highly recommend identifying a female adult who can help the group go co-ed, but that really depends on how "indoorsy" the girl scout programs are in your community.

Ours is about 2 years out from a similar outcome. Two decent troops have started up in the neighborhood, so the total number of scouts hasn't changed. But our boys just keep looking uglier to those Webelos and quirkier to their peers!

Good point. I assumed not, because the OP asked about "ILST as the opportunity to lock-in those campaign promises". Plus this period is between our council's usual leadership trainings. But, we obviously don't know about opportunities in this particular council. Or if this a troop (like mine) where leadership training is not mandatory. So, how many of you consider attending specific out-of-unit training part of fulfilling a PoR?

Watch, it guys. If these are one person, all this tangential banter becomes an ad homenem attack. As long as you're picking on two people, it's ad homini and although probably equally fallacious, no forum moderator ruled against it, yet. Reporters don't get paid for writing comfortable stories where everyone takes everything for granted. This is fodder for a Venturer's ethical controversy. And actually very good for our older youth to mull over.

We all are trying to impose our will by showing up and paying well above cost for a dinner served by amateurs! We are willing that those amateurs continue to do the good we think they are doing in the world. Now, those amateurs have every right to refuse an ex-con's charity. But they aren't obligated to exercise that right just because they are obligated to refuse his/her leadership.

S99 has some great points. As a general rule, I tell Life scouts that nobody is going to care about what position patch is on their sleeve, but the will be asked what they accomplished in that position. I encourage my adults to ask the "what did you do" questions more than "what patch" questions. My observation: the most responsible boys will promptly list everything they didn't do. They are their own worst critics when it comes to management failure. The real challenge as an adult is recognizing leadership when you see it and encouraging the boys positively. (BTW: this includes "natural leader" things like rallying the patrols to do some impromptu activity that has adults scrambling to adjust schedules/ get out of bed/ ensure safety, or making sure to talk to the new boy from another school who might be having a tough time relating to every scout, etc ... .) Then, when a boy is reflecting on his scouting career, you need to get him to him recall the things he did do that positively impacted the life of the unit.

If I were the CC, I would tell that ASM to refer reporters to council HQ. But, since the cat's out of the bag ... I'm with Stosh. Sure, you could legally inform him he's not welcome, but there comes a time in your life where you have to face down your demons. I would let scouts (and parents) know that they can look an erstwhile predator in they eye and do business with a handshake and a smile, but not let him have any of the leadership privileges over youth that should be the sole rights of the trustworthy. The memory of "uncomfortable feeling" might come in handy one day when that boy is in a privileged position and finds himself tempted to do something untoward.

It's like Son #1 had an evil twin 6 years later. No Joke, a problem like this is precisely why I signed on to this forum! Since then, I've had dozens of multiply registered boys make Eagle. They all preferred to keep their primary registration through the troop, but depending on what they were doing at the time of life rank, some have counted their time as a crew officer as their POR. They've all filled out their paperwork indicated that they've earned their award through the troop; however, one boy (who did all of his advancement with the troop), by a slip of the registrar's fingers, had his award attached to the crew. I told him I could arrange to change it back to the troop, but he wasn't bothered, so I wasn't. Anyway, the only thing that matters for eagle is that the boy held 6 months of POR in either or both of his units. No extra paperwork necessary. I encourage the troop committee to ask specific questions about a boys' venturing POR (regardless of if he's counting it for advancement) during their boards of review. So, he can put either unit on his application. Let him know that regardless, there's a 10% chance that council will screw it up on his NESA card. KM, as to why boys want things one way and not the other -- especially when all the work has been done and he's gonna get the signatures regardless, I have no clue! As I've said elsewhere, venturers have boundary issues -- in a good way. In this case, it kinda forces the BS out of the BSA.

This makes me feel sad. No uncles are free? Have you talked to the SM to see there are any alternatives?

"We don't care what DL don't allow, We be loyal scouts anyhow ...." Bottom line: your boy won't complete AOL, he won't complete 5th grade, and he won't be 11. He really should be in a the next younger den, and there should be no reason to dey that to him,

Here, weather is the main factor. Schedules are the second. For six months out of the year, hypothermia is a present risk, especially to 10 and under years old. For three months, frostbite is a present risk ... especially when boys are by a fire and not attending to those earlobes farthest away from the flames! So most packs settle for a spring or fall weekend and summer resident camp.

Moz, sounds like the problem is with your district advancement chair. Complain loudly at round table that you need a little more backing from higher up when it comes to the planning process. But also, explain to your boys that they should be able to come back to their project 10 years from now, maybe with a wife and kids, and say "Wouldja look at that? The guy who set this up musta been some kind of awesome!" An Eagle candidate must have said "I will do my best ..." sometime during the program. About the only person who knows really what constitutes a boy's best is the boy and his SM. Never let all of this paper pushing get in the way of that.

I've seen more of this at VOA events than others. Not surprised. Not making excuses, but not judging either. Venturing adults have the widest extremes of bed-down preferences ... from sleep anywhere with at least a rock for a pillow to only in cabins with heating and plumbing. Love your crew for what they do and praise them loudly whenever they push the envelope.

RULE # 1: NEVER ask someone for a rule, they'll give you one. I don't sit around waiting for people to tell me what good work of mine is acceptable. If nowhere it is written that a good deed, like walking through MB requirements over the oh one in advance of or persuant to a counseling session, is unacceptable, then IT IS ACCEPTABLE.

(I tried to reply yesterday, hopefully it will stick today!) The details make a difference, and in this case they work in favor of you being accepted as a leader. Even before the background check, there's a (very small) space to disclose this on the application. Fill that out. Find a quiet place to explain the situation to your Charter Org rep and Committee Chair when you turn in your application. (Be patient while they laugh at you. Then tell them it's not something you don't want bantered about You just want them to be prepared if the folks at headquarters find out from the check.) If the record does turn up, a Council executive may call your CC/COR about it. If everyone agrees that that's all there is to this story, that's the end of it. I think it's worth the effort. And, on the application, you'll read fine print about your rights regarding the background check. Have fun leading.

You and your son may also want to consider joining a new pack for summer camp. Now is the time to jump on that bandwagon, if there is one.