qwazse

Now matter how this spins, there is no mitigating the sorrow.

I would like to discourage following the advise of scouters who make snap judgements over the internet. That is why you should seek out adults in your district and in the charter organizations and try to understand all of the issues. The reason is simply this: even if you are a very young venturer, in four years, you will likely be a (more-or-less) responsible adult -- possibly contributing to some of the decisions these organizations make. Having objective boots-on-the-ground advisors to help you sift through the smoke being blown around will be essential to your success. In choosing to put your shoulder behind "A" or "B", it seems clear that somebody will be bothered by whatever decision you make. But, people might restrain their words and actions if you've taken the time to listen to everyone first-hand before making your decision.

I'm coming down on the side of the troop (which sounds a bit on the youngish side). If a scout can't fulfill his duties for 6-8 weeks, the courteous thing is to step aside. Camp staff is no excuse. ASPL can pick up when he gets back. Evidently there's a scribe position open, so this shouldn't be a big deal. End result: that requirement gets checked off a month or two later. Boy holds head high knowing he did his best and was responsible to the troop for a solid 6 months. The other boy sits on the sideline (if parents are willing to back down and eat a little humble pie) and can watch the former ASPL's example. Then in October the SM/SPL says to the slacker scout, do you think you could do as well in that position?

E92, jp, and ox, With all due respect to your (actually our) lofty desires ... you need to ask yourself this simple question: "Where is it written?" KDD, I think it is perfectly fair to let a boy know that some Arrowmen might resent using the Ordeal for anything other than it's intended purpose, but this really is a discussion the boy should have with his SM. Encourage him to have it. Little dilemmas like these are where the tide might begin to change for your troop.

Trust your SPL. Sounds like he has his head on straight.

First, terminology: you are a venturer or a venturing youth in a venturing crew. "Venture" is not in the glossary! Keep that straight and your as good as an expert! ... A venturer may be registered in as many crews (and, if a boy, one troop) as he or she can manage. Indeed, venturers have been known to have boundary issues. That does not make you immune from inter-Nicene conflict. You need to do your best to listen to the representatives from both boards and decide where you fit in in all of this. Does your council have a venturing officers association? I ask because the VOA advisor might be a great resource in this situation.

A parent may go with his son! The rule that applies otherwise is no 1-on-1 contact. Overnite activities require two-deep leadership, so unless the group was sheltering in the bathroom, one leader for two or more boys would suffice.

Thanks for your service and welcome!

Welcome to the forums. And yeah, something about ipads and carriage returns on this site only! Hedge basically nailed it. Tell the boy to be patient with the adults, they're all a little thick. He'll understand. And your troops first mistake was having ASM's sign off on any requirement except the conference. It's hard to keep your pen out of the way. (I admit, I've caved sometimes as well.) The hardest challenge will be getting dad to stand down. The best I can suggest, is remind him how successful his son is, and he'll have a better time if he sits back and watches. With the other leaders, your line is "show me where it's written ..."

There's no need to add extra drama to the whole affair. Nobody's gonna deny advancement because some adult didn't complete his/her registration paperwork. What will happen (and is happening) is adults who contact youth will be lax on youth protection, which will leave the door open for accusations to be made.

You're a really meany for depriving the SPL of an opportunity to transplant a cot into the latrine. If you an the boys are willing to continue putting up with his recalcitrance, you need to figure out how to make him as minimum a nuisance as possible. In addition to some of the above suggestions: He may only come to camp with minimum gear. No walled tent (or any tent if the weather's nice). Every morning, he rolls and packs his sleeping bag. His campsite undergoes full inspection before he goes to bed. He presents in PJ's with his change of clothes, etc ... If he's an owl, fine, he must take responsibility for nighttime duties. (E.g., checking food storage, garbage to the dumpsters, polishing mirrors on the latrine, dousing the fire, preparing the tinder-stash, checking tarp lines, recording the rate of cricket chirps, etc ...) In other words, to sleep in, a boy needs to make it worth his fellow scouts' while to do without him in the morning. Oh, and make sure you issue treats to every scout who snaps to in the morning.

Make sure you replace the buttons and change the pocket flaps so the holes are centered ... then you're golden as long as the UP don't come looking at the tag on your collar! For the trouble, I'd just have my name entered in the UP's permanent book of scofflaws!

Maybe I'm biased because I work "in the business", but this fear of insulting someone HURTS THE KID. This is the right age for a person to start building strategies to keep the anxiety at bay, to learn when meds are needed, to learn when to call for help. Now if this is just about scouting, no problem. But scouting and school, or scouting and when mom and dad leave for work, or scouting and church camp, or scouting and sleeping over at his best friends' ... telling the parents that this is the worst case you ever saw and suggesting professional help may just save the kid's life.

I don't believe we look at the age requirements, but we don't look at PORs that closely in general. If a boy's a slacker, he ain't advancing, and pointing to a patch on his sleeve won't change that.

I guess this boils down to the SM's opinion of "double dipping." Telling the boy those hours won't count for rank advancement may cause him to skip his ordeal! If he does than you probably just spared the brotherhood one more slacker. If he does the ordeal anyway, it's probably in he right spirit, so when he comes back with his lodge flap, let him know you've changed your mind and decided to count it.

I have a low vew as service hours being required at all, so I'd have no problem counting it, but ... Don't any of his buddies have an Eagle project (or girl friends, a gold award) happening between now and then? Encourage the boy to rack up hours sooner than that. You never know what virus will hit once school starts.

Some kids just can't conquer separation anxiety with immersion therapy. (Son #2's best friend had similar issues. Resulted in him quitting scouts.) Give the boy a chance for the next weekend camp, but don't get your hopes up. Talk seriously with the mom. If this is happening in other areas of the kids life, it's probably time to talk to a psychiatrist.

Anybody remember having their Bobcat pinned on upside down, then once you did a good turn, your parent(s) would allow you to turn it right-side up? For some reason, I remember that being a tradition when I was a kid, but 4 decades have produced a fairly muddled memory.

After my crew had been going a few months, a scouter asked me how it was going, to which I replied with a list of activities that the youth accomplished and planned. He said that's not what he meant, and I replied that there were surprisingly no issues there and the whole co-ed thing was a positive experience so far. It was all I could do to keep from saying "So far all the pregnancy tests came back negative." (It was one of my prouder moments where I kept my actually kept my mouth shut.) Based on that experience, I would check your friend's sarcasm meter.

I'd take up Mac's "throw the bums out" mantra if I saw it working. That is if, as a result, contraband would never show up at camp again. If it didn't result in a gang of kids bragging that they are the "kicked out of BS" gang. In general, MattR's more cautiously balanced approach is more likely to yield the desired result. The road off the cliff rarely takes you to the summit.