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E94, did I say anything about well-planned overnights needing to be sanctioned by any national organization?

So if you think the field uniform is the dress uni, what in the blue blazers do you think the blue blazer is? In general, when I think "field" I'm thinking parade, flags, and such. When it comes time to play British bulldog, cook, or tend fire, the tan shirt comes off, and IMHO, each patrol should have it's own t-shirt design, although there could be a standard issue which would have ink-pressed patrol name and patch.

Welcome back! And thanks for your service to the boys. Not sure what you are referring to re: MGM. But, yes, things change. Vintage insignia can be worn, but get to know the folks in the lodge to understand the history of the changes, because sooner or later some youth is going to ask you about it. Every old salt has their pet peeve, mine is that for boys to have the pinnacle scouting experience (hiking and camping with their buddies independent of adults), they must do so outside the bounds of BSA's Guide to Safe Scouting.

Our CO took us 20 minutes to get to for cub meetings from our house. And nearly every pack function took that long to go to. We later learned how to shave the trip down to 10 minutes after son #1 started dating a young lady from that neighborhood.

So did Jesus. What's your point?

With 200k venturers, perhaps 100k female, 50k of GS age, most still in their troops, others who quit long before they were old enough to venture, so lets say liberally 10k who actually quit their troop to join a crew with probably on 2k doing so last year. That would account for 1% of GSUSA's membership loss. A falling tide grounds all boats.

It's really essential that the non-scouts get a training and shake-down. If they are busy, some of you venturers will have to make time to have it at their convenience. If you have to, ask your youth leader if you can have time to talk about your upcoming exploit. It should be easy to justify talking about surviving a day in the wilderness when our Lord took 40 at a stretch!

In addition to your son's enthusiasm for your leadership. Some suggestions: 1. Program according to the needs in your community. Take a walk down your street. Meet every boy your son's age. Ask what they like to do for fun. Figure out if your "den" might do something similar. Go with your son and pass out invites. 2. Gather your pack and visit another Pack's meeting. Have each boy meet with their counterpart den. At your next pack meeting, ask them what they liked about being in a big group, and what they like about being in your small group. In may be that the boys will really want to be part of the larger pack. But, you may also learn that they like their smaller pack. Either way, they begin to develop the phrases they can tell their friends that may get them to join scouting. And you get a better idea of how you can best serve the youth in your community. Good luck.

TAHAWAK's list omits fatalities in transit to/from camp. For this situation, it sounds like the important thing is to have life guards with effective rescue equipment (which may include kayaks). There is a level of unpredictability with kids in large groups that you should account for.

Sounds like they are folks you trust, and you have a little time to prepare. If any of them are young women, they should meet your female adult who will be going on the trip. That's not uncommon, and thus we have "venturers" instead of "venture scouts". We shouldn't really expect a crew to be all that obsessive about uniforming or patrolling. We want them to come to agreement on the next adventure of their choice and do what it takes to arrive at it. (Sometimes "traditional" scouting is what it takes. Other times, not.)

Understand that a lot of these comments stem from experiences of unintended consequences. Every troop and crew committee needs to think long and hard about what it can "do" for the boys. All of us SM/ASM/Advisors have had to deal with domineering MC's, and for us to succeed we sometimes have had to read them the riot act. On rare occasions, we need to listen to them. And most of the time we do so just to be polite. You've admitted you're in a precarious position ... with a well-meaning scoutmaster who seems to have evil twins throughout the nation in troops/crews just like yours. And practically speaking, you need to avoid getting "read the riot act" (although really the world's not going to fall apart if SM has to say "this is how it's gonna be" once and a while), provide opinions and act in ways that your SM can and will respect, and make sure that he's not -- out of sheer politeness -- wasting precious time on tasks of minimum impact. ​ That's actually a selling point. The W2's in a boy-led troop can be assured that they will be pretty much scouting with their buddies. No being split up into a half-dozen existing patrols. They have a majority when electing leaders, etc ... There's the story of Korah's rebellion ... best remind folks about it. You've recognized that the SM is an improvement over the past. Talk him up. Tell your parents there's reasons to expect great things of him.

Welcome to the forums! The short answer to your broader question: scouters have supported youth like your son at every level of scouting. They don't have to earn a religious emblem. They do have to develop an age-appropriate understanding of duty to God. Most boys aren't rigorous theologians, but they benefit from talking to their families about religious life. And then attending in their friends' religious activities from time to time. And then coming back and talking to their families (and later their scoutmasters or other caring adults) about it. This is the culture that scouting is trying to inculcate.

(Sorry for jumping back a few replies, but this got lost when the server froze.) But ... what if you fish and say "Watch me!" One possibility: How solid is each and every committee member in first class scout skills? Would it help if you all were in the back of the room timing or otherwise coaching each other on tying every knot? Reciting all of the versus if the national anthem? Working on kosher meal plans? Lashing together a catapult? Tying slings? Pushups or pull-ups? Rigging a shelter? What I am thinking is that sometimes boys model what they see. And sometimes they'll try harder when they see that some adults are having it tough. And, maybe one or two will help that adult. In helping, they'll learn to mentor. For example: bear bagging. I had never done it, only read about it, usually just let the older boys take care of it when we were in bear country. Then on one hike, I asked a boy who had been to Philmont to show me how. To this day, when I am demonstrating it to other youth, I credit him for teaching me. That way, the youth get it into their heads that "Hey, this isn't just about me and my buddies checking off a to-do list. This is about having skills that I can share with others -- youth and adult." It's come-along-side-leadership. It's the long road. But it's the one with the greatest vision.

Be honest and upfront with the parents. Simply put, the Pack did not make purchasing belt-loops a priority. If parents have problems with that, maybe their service on the Pack committee could help find some resolution. Let's challenge your thinking there just a little. Have you asked your son if he would mind working a fundraiser so everyone could get the loops that they actually earned even if his buddy maybe didn't work as hard ? A scout is helpful, after all. And we're talking about decorations here. I would ask the boys in the den how important they think it is to "bling out" their belts? Or, are they just as proud knowing they've done some cool stuff. Explain the cost of a belt loop vs. a slice of pizza. Would they all pitch in on a fundraiser? Or, would they rather go on a campout? Or do they want to leave it up to each boy to purchase the loops that he earned? (Obviously you wouldn't hand loops out at a pack meeting in that case, you'd just recognize who earned them. You'd help order for the kids who want to buy them discreetly.)

Does it help to prepare young people to make ethical and moral decisions? IMHO more than STEM does. Oh, and no offense to Druids, but they didn't exactly populate the continent we live on. I agree that "subculture worship" can be a distraction, but it can also result in boys discovering new avenues of service, here's a neat link that shows how http://www.oa-bsa.org/pages/content/lodge-ledger-2013-05-3.

Promises of flowers, chocolate, and the chance that 10 years from now a fine young man will invite them to his Eagle Court of Honor.

What we have, here, is a failure to calculate. My boys do this all the time. "We want bacon and eggs for breakfast." "So how many eggs should you buy?" "I dunno enough for all of us." "And how many of us is that exactly?" "6, maybe 8." "How many eggs for each of you?" "Two I suppose." "Okay so how many are we buying?" "Three dozen?"

"American Heritage Girls" they had a Memorandum of Understanding with BSA until last year's membership standards change. Then they weren't so understanding and withdrew their MoU. Folks on the ground generally ignored these national machinations, evidently AHG's "national" is not going to let that happen.

Gotta love this era of bulk discount food purchases! This is why everyone returns to the scout house and unpacks everything. It's part of the trip plan. We might set aside non-perishable, vermin-proof goods for the next camping weekend ... or even to cook the next meeting night. Perishables get divided up and sent to homes that will likely put them to good use. The CO has a food bank, and the boys have helped stock it enough that they know where things can be placed. But, we discourage that because someone might get it into their thick heads that they can take out as easily as they can put in! Anyway, CNY, your job is to understand what the boy is thinking. Then work from there. Obviously, it would be a good idea to do that through the SPL if he's the type of leader that can politely ask "why" and figure out amongst the boys what the best solution would be.

Welcome to Christianity's nasty divorce. Kids, choose your custodian wisely.

When it comes to questions like this, I don't ask if today's boys find it popular. I ask myself "Is it good for the nation?" Is learning about (and to some degree reenacting) the trials, tribulations, creativity, and resourcefulness of the peoples who worked this land before we farmed and industrialized it helpful? Will being exposed to this caricature of an ancient way of life (that in all likelihood differs from that of the boy's ancestors) enable a boy to be a better citizen? Will memories of those drum pulses, dances, and nights under the stars help the mind negotiate the sometimes barren world of STEM? Will even a cursory understanding of the many nations on American soil yield more knowledgeable voters? If the answer to those questions is affirmative, then trying to get an "outsider's inside view" of N/A tradition is worthwhile. And, honestly, until the college anthropology courses, O/A was the only place that provided any material for my curious mind.